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Sky Angel will NOT honor lifetime for IPTV


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#41 OFFLINE   BusyMommyof8

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Posted 31 December 2007 - 03:33 PM

On a moral level, the most we can do is refuse to do business with them.
It is up to higher powers to judge them and punish them on a higher level.



That's so true Mr. Long. Clearly lawsuits or other legal action would violate everything I stand for as a Christian as well as reflect Christ poorly to the world. It seems as though many on this board take a similar position.
Unfortunately, I have a sneaking suspicion that the powers that be at SA are counting on that very position. I could be wrong though. I was once before - March 2nd, 1979. :lol:
Have a blessed 2008!
Cindy
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#42 OFFLINE   JohnH

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Posted 03 January 2008 - 03:20 AM

Well, some of the HD is on E*3 and they did not lose a transponder causing the removal of the 3 channels. A wideband data stream was placed on Tp32 in place of the 3 channels.. It is interesting that some of the SkyAngel service is now on other Tps than Tps 25 and 32. :)

BTW: If your lifetime receiver dies, you cannot get a purchased new one authorized.

#43 OFFLINE   quiverof8

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Posted 03 January 2008 - 08:34 PM

I can understand what you mean about a law suit reflecting poorly on Christians. However to allow sky Angel to continue unchallenged in their treatment of their subs (lifetime, canadian , 10 yr and even monthly) will reflect even worse in the long run. It will appear that Christians sanctioned the behavior of sky angel by NOT taking a stand against them.

At this point (assuming sky angel does cut off the lifetime members) it might be i the best interest to sue them , not for financial gain but for restoration of service. they didn't launch the new satellite, its not our concern HOW they provide the service, only that they do so.

#44 OFFLINE   James Long

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Posted 03 January 2008 - 09:31 PM

There were limits in the original "lifetime" contracts that was signed. Perhaps SkyAngel should have done more to meet their original stated mission of being an angel in the sky beaming Christian programming around the world. But at this point there is no path toward restoration of the satellite service.

SkyAngel's agreement with EchoStar for the use of EchoStar3 ends at "the life of the satellite". In May E3 will be replaced by the next satellite - and while what is left of E3 will likely serve some purpose somewhere in the sky for the next couple of years as the rest of it fails, Sky Angel would have needed a replacement satellite NOW in order to continue service.

Satellites are not cheap ... neither is launching them. In the end it was cheaper for SkyAngel to leave the DBS business than try to do now what they were unable to do when they originally launched ... actually build their own angel in the sky.

While broadband is not available everywhere and is an additional expense even IF SkyAngel offered free service it is an option that did not exist when SkyAngel first entered people's homes. There is also the GloryStar free system (buy the equipment and no monthly fees) for those who must have satellite.

There will be people who lose their Christian TV because of SkyAngel's failure as a DBS provider - but I believe they are doing the best that they can. There are places reached by broadband that would never be reached by their satellite signal due to dish placement restrictions and the difficulty of seeing their one satellite location from across the country.

There are things they could change ... perhaps a free 6 months or a year of the new service for lifetime subscribers to DBS - definitely some way of having two receivers without paying double ($5 mirror fee, please - or a two or more channel receiver). But the mistake of offering lifetime subscriptions many years ago is one of the reasons why SkyAngel is in the position they are in today ... unable to sustain the satellite service since their best supporters turned in to free customers.

I believe they have been challenged ... and I also believe that they have responded to the best of their financial ability. As posted earlier - the only thing left for us to do is walk away and wash our hands of them. Or forgive them and sign up for IPTV.

Lawsuits rarely change anything. If there is some class action I suspect a lawyer will get rich, SkyAngel will spend money that should be paying for the new service on defending themselves and at best lifetime customers would get some small rebate. I've had a lot of "class action" settlements come to my door (from suits where I was in the class - I did not participate in any suit). My winnings were hardly worth noting.

There are probably better ways to spend time than draining SkyAngel of their ability to perform the new service and lining lawyer's pockets. :)

#45 OFFLINE   quiverof8

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Posted 04 January 2008 - 12:27 AM

It was sky angels "mistake" yet the lifetimers literally are paying the price (anywhere from $300- $1000!). We didn't ask to pre pay, they made the offer. An offer they obviously couldn't afford, just to raise quick cash.

The "lifetime of the satellite" should have been for the one SUPPOSED to have been LAUNCHED in 2002. If they had kept their word that satellite would only be 5 years old so we would have at least 5 YEARS of service left before it "died". Again, not our fault yet WE the subscribers are supposed to pay the price for sky angels mismanagement/mistakes?! I don't remember hearing one subscriber threaten t sue sky angel when they didn't launch the satellite in 2002. Their current treatment goes too far.

Seriously, how many would stick with their current cell phone company if they were treated even half as poorly? Assume you prepaid for 1 year. They shut off your service after 6 months, then tell you to buy a new phone and pay them AGAIN? would you or would you find another cell phone company.....................

People are taking a LOT from sky angel because the call themselves Christian.

We will lose not only our "Christian TV" but our ONLY TV service. Somehow this is fair to a family with 8 kids and a disabled husband besides? To some it may be just a few of many channels, or only a few dollars! To others it is their lifeline to the outside world and the cost of replacing it not easily achieved.

its especially difficult to plan for the demise of lifetime or DBS when it has NOT been officially announced to its loyal subscribers, many of whom have no internet access.

#46 OFFLINE   James Long

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Posted 04 January 2008 - 01:18 AM

When was the last time the "lifetime" deal was offered?
How many months of service (years) have customers received for their money?
If those lifetime customers would have paid monthly or annually would they have paid more money over those years or less than they got for their "lifetime" payment?

That is the beginning of the discussion of the "loss" lifetimers have incurred. $300 to $1000? Sounds inflated.

My mention of "lifetime of the satellite" refers to SkyAngel's deal with EchoStar that allowed SkyAngel to be a DBS company at all. They were on the path of losing their satellite assignments from the FCC until that deal was struck. SkyAngel should have replaced the satellite ... they didn't and that eventually led to the current situation where in a couple of months they won't have a satellite to broadcast on. So they have moved on.

As of the subscribe by September 15th, 2002 offering of "lifelong" subscription ($399) offer included these terms:

The lifelong subscription will begin immediately upon receipt of payment and entitles the subscriber to receive the Sky Angel package of thirty-six 24-hour Christian and family-oriented television and radio channels with no further monthly subscription fees for the lifetime of the subscriber and that of their spouse or for the operating lifetime of Dominion Sky Angel. If applicable, state sales tax will be invoiced later. This offer expires on September 15. 2002.

The SkyAngel lifelong subscription entitles you to receive all of the SkyAngel channels which are a part of the basic Sky Angel package of programming, including special events, as modified from time to time, with no additional charge or monthly fee. You also have access to future pay-per-view, special pay channels, and distance learning that may be carried on the SkyAngel system, however, there would be various additional charges for some of these specialized services. Programming, channels, number of channels, pricing and schedules are subject to change without notice.

Based on SkyAngel's failure to launch or procure a replacement satellite they have reached the end of their operating life time as a DBS service. If you would like to try to put the entire company out of business and make sure that Christian programming is not available from SkyAngel via IPTV a lawsuit is a step in that direction. It is not reasonable to expect SkyAngel to deliver programming into your home without their satellite service.

As far as the price ... lifelong was $399 at a time when monthly was $9.99 per month. That is 40 months of service ... which would have hit the break even point in February of 2006. Annual subscriptions were $108 at the time ... the break even point would have been reached in June of 2006 (not factoring in price increases). Yes, you may have expected service for life ... but if you take this to court you are likely to face a lawyer who will demonstrate that you got a good deal.

Life isn't fair ... but I don't believe you will find the answer to your problems in the court systems.

#47 OFFLINE   quiverof8

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Posted 04 January 2008 - 03:39 AM

Good deal or bad deal is a matter of perception. $300- $1000 is what sky angel charged for life time memberships! If I had been paying $10-$15 a month for sky angel I would have cancelled it years ago. Lack of channels, cancelled channels, sub standard service etc.

People also had the option of buying 10 year subs. It is my understanding that DBS will end before their 10 years are up. Unless sky angel can come up with some very funny math, 10 years is equal to 120 months, no less.

why should a 10 yr not get 10 yrs and a lifetime not = a lifetime anymore? You are quoting a 2002 contract, earlier ones differed. Either way sky angel violated by not launching the satellite. They promised something they couldn't deliver in order to receive funds to keep their business afloat. some would call that dishonest.


A projected loss financially if you assume that a current subscriber is 40 yrs old, will live to 70 and that sky angel maintains the price at $25 might be something like this.....
$300 per year for the rest of the subscribers life must now be budgeted, $9000 if they live 30 years. Now you and I both know that sky angel or any other TV service will raise rates substantially in that time. sky angel has more than doubled just in the past few years once IPTV kicks in!

People prepaid to avoid having to pay out that kind of money. Many will do without tv due to such cost. $399 was/is a LOT of $$$ to some people. $ they may have chosen NOT to give to sky angel if they knew sky angel would not honor the terms THEY set up! Sky angel is not an example of good stewardship or good business management. they couldn't afford to launch the satellite they promised, they bought land that isn't buildable they are now attempting to sell while buy and building on yet more land.

Now they aren't even shipping the IPTV boxes to those who ordered them1 what do those people do in the mean time if they cancelled another service to switch to sky angel? If they paid for high speed they now don't need yet? I honestly can not fathom why anyone would attempt to justify this kind of behavior.

To dump it on people that if they sue sky angel they destroy Christian TV is ridiculous. Sky Angel has already done that. Unfortunately we funded them so they could get to this point.

glorystar is already an option and dish probably isn't far behind, even if it wasn't so be it. sky Angel isn't bringing the gospel to the unsaved by charging $25 a month. Look back at the ORIGINAL mission statements of sky angel. Something along the line of bringing the gospel to rural areas not otherwise served by tv...... IPTV certainly fits that bill , doesn't it? Except they now changed their mission statement (several times in fact). Sky angel will probably drive people right back to secular tv, after all they will already own the dish equipment. Besides high speed or any internet at all is an issue for some Christians.

It has already been pointed out that few get saved by watching sky angel. Sky angel has done more to alienate Christians and has created a feeling of dissent and corruption and suspicion of Christian TV equaled only by the Jim and Tammy.

Don't believe me? Just look at the descension on the forums that sky angel has caused among us Christian viewers! Instead of being one in christ we are divided into several camps. Add in the poor Canadians and you can see just what kind of message sky angel is spreading :(

I would suggest that people call sky angel and ask for a statement IN WRITING as to the status of DBS and their lifetime subs. To my knowledge none has been issued.

I actually received an email yesterday from someone affiliated with sky angel who told me "not to believe the forums". So which parts shouldn't we believe? so far this and other forums have been more accurante and honest than anything from sky angel! the forums hve been correct on every point so far that I have seen.

#48 OFFLINE   James Long

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Posted 04 January 2008 - 04:58 AM

Good deal or bad deal is a matter of perception. $300- $1000 is what sky angel charged for life time memberships! If I had been paying $10-$15 a month for sky angel I would have cancelled it years ago. Lack of channels, cancelled channels, sub standard service etc.

I don't recall a $1000 rate. The last "lifelong" offer I remember seeing was for $495 (or near that) in 2003. If you have a source of a $1000 deal please provide it.

It is a shame that you became unhappy with your service. It sounds like your unhappiness is NOT connected to the service leaving DBS. If you had not made the choice to buy the lifetime membership you could have cut your losses years ago. There was no guarantee that the channel lineup would remain the same nor that their customers would be satisfied for their lifetime.

You are quoting a 2002 contract, earlier ones differed.

Feel free to scan and post an earlier contract.

A projected loss financially if you assume that a current subscriber is 40 yrs old, will live to 70 and that sky angel maintains the price at $25 might be something like this.....
$300 per year for the rest of the subscribers life must now be budgeted, $9000 if they live 30 years. Now you and I both know that sky angel or any other TV service will raise rates substantially in that time. sky angel has more than doubled just in the past few years once IPTV kicks in!

OK ... here's the deal. SkyAngel pays all lifetime subs $300 for every estimated year of life they have left - goes broke and out of business and no longer provides Christian programming to anyone. Would that make you happy? That sounds like vengence to me.

To deny all of the people who could be encouraged, uplifted and kept on the path via SkyAngel IPTV the SkyAngel service seems selfish.

Sky angel is not an example of good stewardship or good business management.

Then don't do business with them. Find another provider. Or turn off the TV. There are options.

sky Angel isn't bringing the gospel to the unsaved by charging $25 a month.

And you think $399 lifelong subscriptions were purchased by the unsaved? Or at least by people who did not consider themselves saved? Gifts aside, it seems crazy to consider anything SkyAngel did outside of the free channel on DishNetwork to be outreach to the saved.

In fact, looking at their exclusive contract with Echostar that PROHIBITED Echostar from increasing their religious channel content and the lawsuit SkyAngel filed to enforce that contract and intentionally remove Christian channels from the Echostar system they seemed to operate AGAINST their stated goals - as often discussed on this forum over the past few years.

The problems at SkyAngel are not new.

Just look at the descension on the forums that sky angel has caused among us Christian viewers! Instead of being one in christ we are divided into several camps.

Do we all have to be in YOUR camp or are you willing to join someone else's?

Personally I'm willing to say "to {hockysticks} with SkyAngel, let God sort them out". It's not my job to hunt down the company and kill it.

I actually received an email yesterday from someone affiliated with sky angel who told me "not to believe the forums". So which parts shouldn't we believe?

It depends on what else was in the email. If they told you that DBS was never shutting down you know better.

#49 OFFLINE   quiverof8

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Posted 04 January 2008 - 10:48 AM

I will throw this out to others on the board.

How much did you pay for your lifetime? year?

#50 OFFLINE   BusyMommyof8

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Posted 07 January 2008 - 06:07 AM

I will throw this out to others on the board.

How much did you pay for your lifetime? year?


I believe I paid $299. I got in fairly early...1998 or 99. My contract is different than those previously posted and includes guaranteed service for the lifetime of the satellite with additional assurance that they are launching a new satellite to provide service for the lifetime of myself and/or spouse. SkyAngel didn't leave room to wiggle out in the contract I have.
I hope to have time to scan and post that as many have requested. I truly am a BUSY MOMMY OF 8 (and I'm doing it alone now) so time is at a premium here. :)
Mr. Long - the fact that lifetimers received X number of months of service resulting in a bargain rate of $X per month is not relevant here. Lifetime subscribers signed up and paid for a lifetime subscription, not a bargain monthly rate.
Peace!
Cindy
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#51 OFFLINE   James Long

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Posted 07 January 2008 - 09:15 AM

Mr. Long - the fact that lifetimers received X number of months of service resulting in a bargain rate of $X per month is not relevant here. Lifetime subscribers signed up and paid for a lifetime subscription, not a bargain monthly rate.

I am looking at it from a perspective of what a court might rule (since the specter of Christians suing SkyAngel was brought up). $299 for 10 years of service is better than most got.

Thanks for mentioning your terms were for the life of the satellite. Although they INTENDED to launch their own they certainly would not have guaranteed that they would launch their own - otherwise the term "life of the satellite" would be unneeded.

#52 OFFLINE   quiverof8

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Posted 07 January 2008 - 12:05 PM

Sky angel is trying to "wiggle" out of the contract using the lifetime of satellite nonsense. I agree with you that the satellite is not dead and they did not fullfill their word by laucing the new satellite. I hate to sound harsh but the fact that they could not afford to do so is not our problem. maybe they should have spent less on the wothless/ not buildable land they now own!

they might be attempting to get out of the contract but so far they don't have enough of a leg to stand on that they have put ANYTHING in writing...........

#53 OFFLINE   James Long

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Posted 07 January 2008 - 12:34 PM

The point of fact is that Sky Angel IS absolutely positively leaving the DBS satellite business. Nothing you can do will change that fact. The satellite they are using will be removed from service at 61.5° later this year, SkyAngel has already transferred their licenses to DISH Network. All that is left is to pull the plug. There is no going back.

Other than denial of these facts, what is your request of SkyAngel? Free service on a system where there is an incremental per-subscriber cost that will continue SkyAngel's losses? Free high speed internet paid for by SkyAngel so you can receive their programming? A cash refund of the "lifelong membership fee" regardless of how many years you have had the service?

What is the goal? Do you want SkyAngel to completely fail and go out of business?

#54 OFFLINE   Jashobeam

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Posted 07 January 2008 - 03:22 PM

Welcome to taking a chance on a business. All of us took a chance on a company that might or might not last. I am frankly surprised they lasted this long. I have greatly enjoyed SA for the last 4 years and feel I have gotten my money's worth. In those 4 years we spent between $500 and $700, much more than lifetime subs spent to get the service for more years than we have had it. I agree with the PP that some just want SA to fail for whatever reasons. We are ending our SA service before they cease transmission and I hope SA continues to minister to those who end up going with IPTV. I have no hard feelings even though I do think they should have explained things to customer reps and customers.

#55 OFFLINE   Bill R

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Posted 07 January 2008 - 04:41 PM

Clearly lawsuits or other legal action would violate everything I stand for as a Christian as well as reflect Christ poorly to the world.


You sure practice a differently form of Christanity than I do. That "turn the other cheek" stuff just doesn't cut it in my world.

I have a sneaking suspicion that the powers that be at SA are counting on that very position.

Cindy


Cindy,

There is no doubt in my mind that you are right about that. But don't worry, thre are going to be enough people (like me) that are not going to take the cancelation of our lifetime subscriptions without a fight. We might not win, but believe me, in the long run neither will Sky Angel. My bet is that if they treat their lifetime customers the way we think that they are, they won't be around long.
Bill R

#56 OFFLINE   quiverof8

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Posted 07 January 2008 - 08:03 PM

[quote name='James Long']The point of fact is that Sky Angel IS absolutely positively leaving the DBS satellite business.

You say "absolutely" and are quite probably correct. YET have you, or anyone else actually received such notice from sky angel?

the IPTV brochures do not state that they sold their license or that DBS is being cancelled! they appear to offer IPTV as an alternative much like dial up and dbs being offered by the same company

#57 OFFLINE   James Long

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Posted 07 January 2008 - 08:33 PM

So what is the answer to my question?
With SkyAngel ABSOLUTELY leaving satellite what do you want them to do?

#58 OFFLINE   quiverof8

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Posted 07 January 2008 - 09:01 PM

I will answer your question once sky angel has the decency to notify its subscribers that DBS and lifetime memberships are being cancelled.

#59 OFFLINE   James Long

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Posted 07 January 2008 - 09:22 PM

Will suing the company help?

Please see the following message for a personal reply from SkyAngel -
http://www.dbstalk.c...249&postcount=1

#60 OFFLINE   Jashobeam

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Posted 08 January 2008 - 12:22 AM

I was told. I called SA and asked. The customer rep told me that yes SA would be ending transmission as soon as the IPTV people are settled. If you want to be told, call them. It's a toll free call.

If you didn't like what SA had become programming wise, why are you upset they are no longer transmitting to your home in the near future? If you would have cancelled on them anyway, how is it a lost service to you? If you don't like SA, you aren't going to suffer once they are no longer available to you. You do get the internet, so many Christian stations are available online. Some sites even have free Christian movies to download (TBN is one). You can get a cable and plug it into your TV and watch Christian TV/movies that way.

If you have a DVD player, try Netflix. You get a few movies a month for way less than what the new SA costs. They have a ton of Christian movies, documentaries and such many of which were never available on SA. Some are free to watch online via Netflix if you have an account.




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