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Sky Angel will NOT honor lifetime for IPTV


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88 replies to this topic

#81 OFFLINE   ragamuffin

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Posted 14 February 2008 - 03:07 AM

as long as one is writing about how something is affecting them personally, what is wrong with that,

if someone is being hurt, does one expect them to be "nice" and lay there suffereing and not ask for help?

is it wrong to ask for fair play?

I agree with my disabled friend


and nothing in what he said seems to want to bash anyone, when something is wrong it's right to talk about it.

I haven't read anything that is out of line, only an appeal for fair play.

when is it wrong to ask in a nice way for fair play?

I certainly did not mean to upset anyone. It seemed by the questions that some had not read my earlier post regarding Nancy's reply which is why I posted again. I was trying to be fair to Sky Angel by letting people get answers for themselves. You should never take anyones word for something online without verifying it yourself.

If people email Nancy at least they get an answer rather than a generic Sky Angel form letter sent out by customer service.

IPTV is not a viable option for many due to the availability and cost of high speed internet.

I did find it interesting that you mention Nancy is lurking rather than posting. Any and all I have posted here I have already said to her myself. There was some question on another board as to "lurking" sky angel staff, at least we know they are reading our comments.

At what point does this become a "campaign/cause" rather than a discussion? its not as if I was suggesting a picket line at SA headquarters. Could you please explain your guidelines?

If I have a "cause" then I guess it is maintaining continued SA service for a legally disabled man and his family of 8 children. Is that so wrong?



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#82 OFFLINE   ragamuffin

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Posted 14 February 2008 - 03:19 AM

Thank you for putting into words what needed to be said.

As to those who say this should go away and let's talk about something else for a change,
This is a big deal; we more than anyone else want this to go away. If SA will allow lifetime subscribers to continue viewing (we will pay for our own equipment of course) and we would all be happy campers.

Unfortunately those who live out in God's country and don't have Internet; unfortunately they would not have that option.

But God hasn't forgotten them, if what I've read about Glorystar is true, they will have something.

We bargained in good faith and should receive the same. The thread will end when SA honors in good faith.

There is only one reason to change to the new technology, because it's more cost effective for their marketing.

But to require lifetime subscribers to begin paying monthly fees because it's financially beneficial to SA is not bargaining in good faith,

Everyone knows it, it couldn't be more obvious



You say "lifetime" as if it were some questionable term the subscribers are trying to twist. The subscribers didn't make that term. SkyAngel did. If they didn't want to characterize it as lifetime, or for the customer to take it as that, they should not have called it that.

As for whether the subscribers got their $$ worth if they had paid regular rates, some did, some didn't. But that's not the point. Subscribers paid up front, (and when I joined it was i think $5 a month) so that Sky Angel could use our $$ to build their DBS distribution system.

Sky Angel isn't going out of business. Nor is the satellite dead. They are just selling the transponders to get into the IPTV business here in the US. And leaving the customer base high and dry who supported them to deliver by DBS.

They ought to at the very least sign up the lifetime subbers to IPTV AS LONG AS E3 is functioning for E*. IMHO, they ought to sign them up permanently, but the the former would be the minimum they ought to do. Even that wouldn't do much good for most people, but it would at least be an attempt to make some kind of restitution for what they were contractually supposed to provide by DBS.

As for Skyangel not waiting till E3 died, for those people who have no ability to get broadband, or find it too expensive, or who are lifetime subbers who Sky angel is apparently dumping, it would have been far better for all those people -- I'm suspecting the majority of their subscribers -- if they had waited till E3 had died. At least the customers would have received their contracted service until that point. And at least Sky angel would have fulfilled the terms of that contract. The reason Sky angel is not doing that is that presumably they want the money from the transponder sale. Interesting that to Skyangel E3 is always dead when they talk to their customers, but not dead when they sell the transponders to E* or talk to the FCC.

Truthfully it sounds damn immoral to me, to take money on a contract to deliver one thing, and then dump those people and what they funded and sell it and take those funds to fund another project. When you raise money, you're supposed to spend it on what it was solicited for. When you sell a service, you are supposed to provide it, not say, oh, I think I can make more $$ here, so let me sell that and buy something else and charge you again for what you already bought.

Whether that is illegal or not is for lawyers to decide,and the customer never wins in those things. But for the ordinary person, who was sold a lifetime sub for a satellite as long as the satellite was up there and Sky angel was in business, that customer has a right to feel taken. There is no more DBS service not because E3 is dead but only because Sky angel CHOSE NOT TO PROVIDE IT. Because they chose to welch on their contracts, sell what was needed to deliver on them, take the money and run to set up another venue. Not because E3 is dead or they are out of business.

It seems from your email you are trying to paint the *subscriber* as greedy, trying to get more than their subscription was supposed to pay for and sky angel as being honorable in trying to find other alternatives. It's bad enough to be welched on by sky angel -- and even worse that they haven't even told their customers yet. If Sky Angel execs are lurking on the board, it's disgraceful they haven't spoken up to answer some of the questions and concerns posted here by customers whose funds help build their company and pay their salaries. And if customers are upset, and sky angel execs were treated badly here in the past, perhaps the blame should be put squarely where it belongs and the execs deserved it.

Trying to turn the blame and the guilt on the wronged consumer, trying to paint the lifetime subscriber as greedy, rather than the company that is selling Peter to buy Paul, may work on some, but it just doesn't work on me.



#83 OFFLINE   James Long

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Posted 14 February 2008 - 08:09 AM

Lifetime subscriber is not a matter for semantics except among those who have had a few too many.
...
Failing that, they are attempting to get lifetime subscribers to pay monthly because of a new transmission method.

Well, that's nice. Start with an accusation that anyone who disagrees with you is an alcoholic ...

SkyAngel NEVER promised to deliver the channels to you for the rest of your life separate from the satellite service, which despite all denials IS going away and the satellite IS going away too. Perhaps someone spiked your holy water?

SkyAngel cannot afford to replace their satellite service with another service at the same cost. The deal they made with EchoStar a decade ago was too sweet ... basically free satellite space instead of paying $300,000 per month (or more). When you're not paying for service it is easy to give it away to others.

THEY CANNOT AFFORD TO SPEND $300,000 PLUS PER MONTH FOR CUSTOMERS THAT PAY THEM NOTHING FOR THE SERVICE!

The sweet deal expired ... the decade passed and the specific satellite they made a deal to be on is, 100%, going out of service. You lie to yourself , other Christians and the world if you deny that fact. The new deal that SkyAngel can get isn't sweet ... and just as you suggested, SkyAngel has made the decision to find a less expensive way of providing their service.

Unfortunately IPTV isn't free ... they cannot afford to spend thousands of dollars for customers paying them nothing for that service either. They have to PAY someone for their servers and bandwidth.

They are apparently just trying to stay alive ... if you want to kill them off just for spite a lawsuit is an excellent idea. You can be just as bad as SkyAngel and go to court to stop the spread of the gospel - just because it isn't being done one your terms.

Oh, I forgot ... it isn't about the great commission but the almighty buck. You want free Christian TV for people who paid hundreds of dollars five or more years ago, not an evangelical tool to support new Christians. :rolleyes:

You remind me of the "Christians" who give a few thousand to the building fund and then stop tithing (as if a one time payment gave permission to ignore the continuing Biblical obligation). All focused on what they deserve instead of what they can freely give.

#84 OFFLINE   quiverof8

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Posted 14 February 2008 - 08:50 PM

Sky Angel charged a fee for lifetime membership (varied). No one forced them to make the offer. they were in financial trouble and could have chosen to offer a different incentive or shorter term. Lifetime members helped keep sky angel in business the past 5-10 years so that monthly members had the service available.

Its not just "lifetime" members but now 3abn who also has issues with sky angel. it seems that 3abn sold lifetime sky angel memberships and turned the funds over to sky angel. Sky angel isn't honoring any lifetime contracts. 3abn is now running a segment with "alternates" as well as a phone # to COMPLAIN to sky angel!

As others have said the sat is not dead, sky angel is still in business and we are still alive!

Learn a lesson from what sky angel IPTV in Canada did! They lasted less than 1 yr, they shut off subs with no notice, continued debiting their bank accts too!

They had at one time over 100,000 PAYING subscribers. According to CS they have 5000 IPTV subs. According to neulion they need 10,000 to BREAK even. therefor sky angel is no where close to making a profit or meeting expenses. How long will IPTV last? A bif portion of sky angel subs were the SDA. They now have moiptv, hope tv, 3 abn sat, glorystar and dish to broadcast on.

skyangel are losing both monthly subs who can not or will not switch as well as lifetimers who either feel ripped off or don't have high speed. IPTV may be the wave of the future but I don't think sky angel is going to be around long enough to take advantage of it.

It started with wanting to charge lifetimer an extra $5, then went to not honoring lifetime at all. if handled differently thing may have turned out differently.

#85 OFFLINE   James Long

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Posted 14 February 2008 - 09:08 PM

SkyAngel made many mistakes ... adding programming that cost them money without immediately charging customers for that programming was one of those mistakes.

#86 OFFLINE   Jashobeam

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Posted 15 February 2008 - 12:42 AM

As others have said the sat is not dead, sky angel is still in business and we are still alive! . . .

They had at one time over 100,000 PAYING subscribers.


The sat is nearly dead. Don't you get that? It is like a car that is headed for the junkyard. It's dying and going to be replaced. You keep saying it's not dead like suddenly physics will be changed and a dying sat will suddenly come back to life. It ain't happening.


Please provide a real source/link for the 100K paying subscribers. I have seen guesses, but I have yet to see an actual SA source/link that says there were any specific or even aproximate number of subscribers.

#87 OFFLINE   James Long

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Posted 15 February 2008 - 11:33 AM

They had at one time over 100,000 PAYING subscribers.

Please provide a real source/link for the 100K paying subscribers. I have seen guesses, but I have yet to see an actual SA source/link that says there were any specific or even aproximate number of subscribers.

I'd like to see that source as well ... plus the estimate of how many of them were Lifelong subscribers, and how many they had a year ago before they started winding down the satellite service.

The "at one time" is the killer. When was that time? They would need to have 100k paying NOW to keep the satellite system on the air - especially with the non-free secular channels they added.

#88 OFFLINE   quiverof8

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Posted 15 February 2008 - 05:35 PM

Actually it was a newspaper article, posted slightly over 100,000. will try and find a link to it and update my post. IT WAS ecent and the only time a # was ever published to my knowledge. there was some debate as to if "paying subscribers" was including lifetimers

#89 OFFLINE   Topekalawyer

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Posted 16 February 2008 - 03:31 PM

We knew when we signed up as "lifetime subscribers" it might not be forever. The fine print had some exclusions. But we did get a long term net savings over the monthly rate. So like a lot of things in life, we took a risk on Sky Angel, trusting that they would honor their word and the Spirit of the contracts. Some accomidation should be made for life timers, but it would be no matter to us. We don't have internet at home and don't intend to get it. (As an aside, Jim Baker went to prision for 18 months for selling life time partnerships that the courts found he would be unable to honor.) Churches change, schools change, businesses change....sad, but we will move on. Kirk




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