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Guest Message by DevFuse

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Good Bye Tivo


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225 replies to this topic

#26 OFFLINE   shendley

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Posted 30 June 2007 - 09:55 PM

I retired my HR10 several months ago. And then a couple of months later it died. Got a second HR20 in its place! I think it knew its time was up and sacrificed itself so that a new, more worthy, and free (!) HR20 could take its place.

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#27 OFFLINE   ejd

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Posted 30 June 2007 - 10:12 PM

My HR10 retired itself many months ago. It was always rebooting.
The HR20 is at a point now that I don't miss it anymore, even without DLB. But it did serve me well in the early days of the HR20 when it was far from reliable.

#28 OFFLINE   bto4wd

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Posted 30 June 2007 - 10:59 PM

Or you're too devoted.

To what?

#29 OFFLINE   bidger

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Posted 01 July 2007 - 05:53 AM

The TiVo platform. That's not a shortcoming, but that's just how it is for some. They're hard-wired to one DVR. Ask the typical UTV user about other DVR platforms or how the Replay TV user felt about features that pushed the envelope.

Some are just more flexible. I have a friend who I gave a lifetime TiVo to who went to the Time-Warner DVR for HD because they didn't want to shell out for the S3. The only complaint I heard was the TWC DVR didn't do Wishlists.

Ceton 6 tuner eth, Cisco Tuning Adapter 1520, TWC Digital Explorer Pak and Standard Internet, TiVo HD (upgraded to 500 GB) for OTA,TC-P50U50, SONY NSZ-GT1 BD player and Google TV box, Yamaha RX-V373 A/V receiver, Squeezebox Duet music streaming device, Xbox 360 

 

 


#30 OFFLINE   Ken S

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Posted 01 July 2007 - 07:01 AM

To me it's never been about Tivo vs HR-20. Sure there are some features from the Tivo I miss like Suggestions and better guide data.
It is more about reliability. The T60s we had were very, very reliable the HR20s are not.
Oh, and after going over to a friend's house last night and using their Tivo "peanut" control...I once again realized how badly laid-out/designed the HR-20's remote is.

#31 OFFLINE   bidger

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Posted 01 July 2007 - 07:41 AM

Oh, and after going over to a friend's house last night and using their Tivo "peanut" control...I once again realized how badly laid-out/designed the HR-20's remote is.


:confused:

Are you not using the Logitech remote in your sig?

Yeah, the TiVo remote is nice, but it's limited over how many components it can control. My MX-600 was well worth the investment.

Ceton 6 tuner eth, Cisco Tuning Adapter 1520, TWC Digital Explorer Pak and Standard Internet, TiVo HD (upgraded to 500 GB) for OTA,TC-P50U50, SONY NSZ-GT1 BD player and Google TV box, Yamaha RX-V373 A/V receiver, Squeezebox Duet music streaming device, Xbox 360 

 

 


#32 OFFLINE   Ken S

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Posted 01 July 2007 - 07:42 AM

:confused:

Are you not using the Logitech remote in your sig?

Yeah, the TiVo remote is nice, but it's limited over how many components it can control. My MX-600 was well worth the investment.


Yes, we are using the Logitech. But we have two other HR-20s in different rooms that are controlled with the native remote.

#33 OFFLINE   jhstn58

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Posted 01 July 2007 - 07:52 AM

i haven't made the swwitch...yet. I'm struggling wih giving up the DLBs. I use them all the time.

#34 OFFLINE   lflorack

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Posted 01 July 2007 - 08:01 AM

You folks must be very forgiving.


Could be I suppose. However, sometimes I think a lot of discontent is based on the change. Sure, it's different. That, in itself, doesn't make it worse. It just makes it different. I had two SD Tivo's for a long time. Still have one on an SD TV in a room away from my main Home Theater setup. So, I'm comparing the two units pretty much all the time.

Highlight pluses for the HR-20-700
  • It does HD! -- and it handles MPEG4. This is obviously HUGE!
  • It's a LOT faster in just about everything it does
  • Single show recording setup is simple (and fast)
  • SL's setups are simple (and fast)

Highlight pluses for the SA Tivo Series2
  • The menus are pretty intuitive and easy to use
  • It's absolutely rock solid reliable
  • Suggestions are a great way to discover new programming I might be interested in
  • Searches are a bit more powerful

I'm sure I missed some on both sides, but I did this quickly.

I gave the rock-solid plus to Tivo but the HR20 is really not very far behind in most areas -- however, it is still behind. The big HR20 plus for me is that it is HD capable. That's a hard one to ignore. All in all, based on where the HR20 is and what it currently delivers (and what it continues to improve toward), I'm very happy with the HR20. Am I easy to please, maybe. But, I don't think so.

BTW, DLB isn't very important to me. (SA Tivos never had it anyway.)
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#35 OFFLINE   RS4

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Posted 01 July 2007 - 10:00 AM

I'm one of those people who will wait until I'm forced to get an HR20, or find an alternative that allows me use a Tivo.

I believe that Direct rushed a product to market and that the results are they've gotten a lot of help from a lot of people and have come up with a mediocre product as most cable companies have.

A lot of Tivo users have come to expect quality and ease of use. I don't see that in the HR20. A lot of people that change dvrs are expecting to find a better machine. All I see is that this unit will do mpeg4, which of course is a big deal if you want to be able to watch Direct's upcoming HD. So, this box is not impressive, in fact far from it due to its spotted past.

I'm sure there are many Tivo users that have come to accept the box, maybe even a few that actually like it, but my impression is that those of us who truly enjoy our Tivos will find this a giant step backwards.

Most comments I read say yeah, this box is okay, but it ain't a Tivo. That to me is not a glowing endorsement of a new product.

And of course the biggest reason that I'll wait to see what the market bears is Directs arrogance. I'm glad to see that direct appears to be listening to its customers. My question is, why didn't they listen years ago when the stand alone Tivos had all of the features that they wouldn't turn on for us DTivo users?

I believe they are listening to HR20 users now, because they have all this free help plus the fact that they came out with a disastrous product and probably would have had a riot on their hands if they couldn't get something to work half way decent in a short period of time. Most companies that put a product out like that would have been laughed off the streets.

When I canceled my NFLST a couple of weeks ago (not paying $350 to watch HD football), the lady told me they would ship an HR20 for $19.95. I asked one question - "is there a 30-day try it program - if you don't like it, send it back and there will be no 2-year commitment"? Her answer was that Direct has $800 in the box. Well, so what? They could just give the box to the next person on the list if I didn't like it. Instead, they have to lock me in for two years, whether I like it or not.

So, I'm not ready to sign up for a mediocre product with a company that I no longer have high esteem. My customer number with Direct is 13000, so you can imagine how long I've been a customer. Yet, I'm now looking at alternatives and one of the main reasons is because of what they've done with the Tivo customers and the Tivo replacements - settling for 'good enough'.

#36 OFFLINE   bidger

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Posted 01 July 2007 - 10:09 AM

Since I said some folks are devoted to a DVR platform, I should admit that my preference is towards DIRECTV as a programming provider for several reasons:
1) I have waivers for FOX and CBS in HD and TWC doesn't provide them.
2) NFL Network.
3) Lifetime DVR service, which has remained intact through my upgrade to HD.

That being said, I didn't just throw out the TiVo DVRs when I migrated. I waited for the HR and the MCE 2005 to prove that they would be worthy replacements. Mission accomplished. If it hadn't happened, I had the TiVos as fallback. But the fact is, as time went on, I had the nagging question, "I should keep the TiVos because ________", and I couldn't fill in the blank. I used them less and less and I couldn't justify holding onto them. I figured someone else would make better use of them than I was at that point.

If the two platforms hadn't proven themselves to me, I wouldn't have made excuses, I'd have made adjustments and they would have been out the door and TiVo would have reclaimed the top spot. That didn't happen though.

Could I be persuaded to leave DIRECTV? If another provider can meet at least the first 2 of the reasons I listed for staying. Maybe my priorities might change, but right now it's programming followed by DVR functionality. Could I go back to TiVo? I don't want to say never to anything, but to this point, I don't see any compelling reason(s).

Ceton 6 tuner eth, Cisco Tuning Adapter 1520, TWC Digital Explorer Pak and Standard Internet, TiVo HD (upgraded to 500 GB) for OTA,TC-P50U50, SONY NSZ-GT1 BD player and Google TV box, Yamaha RX-V373 A/V receiver, Squeezebox Duet music streaming device, Xbox 360 

 

 


#37 OFFLINE   Xaa

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Posted 01 July 2007 - 10:20 AM

I'm one of those people who will wait until I'm forced to get an HR20, or find an alternative that allows me use a Tivo.


Your choice.

I believe that Direct rushed a product to market and that the results are they've gotten a lot of help from a lot of people and have come up with a mediocre product as most cable companies have.


You're wrong about that unless you use mediocre to describe TiVo. The HR20 was WAY further along at release than the first DtiVo that took 9 months to enable the second tuner on beta.

A lot of Tivo users have come to expect quality and ease of use. I don't see that in the HR20. A lot of people that change dvrs are expecting to find a better machine. All I see is that this unit will do mpeg4, which of course is a big deal if you want to be able to watch Direct's upcoming HD. So, this box is not impressive, in fact far from it due to its spotted past.


You don't see anything in the HR20 because you only view it through your love affair with TiVo. Try it or shut up already. You don't know what you're talking about.

On top of Mpeg4 it gives:
FSI
Single tuner use for overlapping shows
Bulk play
Bulk delete
Quick Menu
Interactive features
30 sec slip that doesn't disappear
Fast setup of SL
Fast EVERYTHING compared to EVERY TiVo
PIG
Autocorrection enable/disable
90 min buffer
Better conflict resolution--actually choose which show not to record instead of tivo's choice
No yellow star advertising or PTCM's that take control of your unit

The list goes on, but you'd have to try it.


I'm sure there are many Tivo users that have come to accept the box, maybe even a few that actually like it, but my impression is that those of us who truly enjoy our Tivos will find this a giant step backwards.


Again, you're wrong. you don't enjoy your TiVo more than I enjoyed mine. I doubt you had yours sooner or for as long as I did. Again, you don't know what you're talking about but you're willing to bet others will find your baseless conclusion too. Your logic is mind boggling.

Most comments I read say yeah, this box is okay, but it ain't a Tivo. That to me is not a glowing endorsement of a new product.


Read the thread you're in {edit un-neighborly word}. These are the guys that blazed the trail for the Dtivo back in 2000.

And of course the biggest reason that I'll wait to see what the market bears is Directs arrogance. I'm glad to see that direct appears to be listening to its customers. My question is, why didn't they listen years ago when the stand alone Tivos had all of the features that they wouldn't turn on for us DTivo users?


Now we're getting to it. You don't want the commitment. Try to get an SA TiVo without one. That's the landscape for these products, not DTV's arrogance.

I believe they are listening to HR20 users now, because they have all this free help plus the fact that they came out with a disastrous product and probably would have had a riot on their hands if they couldn't get something to work half way decent in a short period of time. Most companies that put a product out like that would have been laughed off the streets.


Really, we didn't laugh TiVo off the street in 2000 with their single tuner DTivo that took months to become stable and then months more to activate the second tuner when UTV had it already. We worked with TiVo then and it's the same people working with DTV now. DTV is just simply 1 million times swifter and able to make these changes quickly. Tivo's development speed can be measured in that Comcast box that's about 2 years late now.

So, I'm not ready to sign up for a mediocre product with a company that I no longer have high esteem. My customer number with Direct is 13000, so you can imagine how long I've been a customer. Yet, I'm now looking at alternatives and one of the main reasons is because of what they've done with the Tivo customers and the Tivo replacements - settling for 'good enough'.



DTV won't miss you. Go follow TiVo and get what you deserve. What you have is a mediocre product. it's essentially and equivalent DVR with suggestions that in September will only receive about 1/2 of the programming you want. Nice unit!

Xaa

#38 OFFLINE   RS4

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Posted 01 July 2007 - 10:36 AM

Wow - my first post to the forum and already I'm being called names. :) I guess he didn't want to know why some people weren't drinking the Cool Aid.

#39 OFFLINE   Xaa

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Posted 01 July 2007 - 10:50 AM

You didn't provide any reasons other thatn "I heard it ain't super fantastic".

You're rant had no substance.

I drank your Kool Aid too RS4, before you did. I drank more and enjoyed it more. There are other drinks out there. I'm not saying that you'll prefer what I like, but you can't know if you'll like it regardless of how many times you tell yourself it stinks. Open your mind and try it.

#40 OFFLINE   Sixto

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Posted 01 July 2007 - 10:56 AM

I'm one of those people who will wait until I'm forced to get an HR20, or find an alternative that allows me use a Tivo.

It's a nice summer day and I should sit back, relax, and have a Pina Colada but it's posts like these that get the blood flowing ...

Background: Been with D* for a very long time. They mention "A List" customer whenever I call. Also been a Cablevision cable customer for a very long time. Had D* on the 3 primary TV's (Me, Wife, Kids) and Cablevision throughout the house on the other 5 TV's. Two of the D* boxes are also modulated to two cable channels and available to all of the cable connected TV's in the house.

I spent a few months doing an analysis of D* vs Cable vs FIOS and HR10 vs HR20 vs Series3. For FIOS TV (which just became available in my neighborhood), I didn't actually get a box, just used the write-ups and forums for info.

The net result was that the winner was the HR20 with D*.

We now have three HR20's and I can honestly say that we have zero problems. I can not speak for others. Usually, when I make a post about zero problems, then a number of people post that they have issues. We have zero issues.

And this is not a biased sample. I'm a techy and love this stuff but the wife and kids are joe-average consumers. Not a single peep in several months.

Yes, the HR20 had issues at the beginning. But now (for us) it is 100% reliable. 100%.

Was I ready to revolt when the TiVo relationship was discontinued? Yes. Did I lose my mind when the original HR20 missed a recording? Yes. Was I ticked off when I learned that the HR20 didn't do DLB? Yes. Was I unhappy when I couldn't swap out the drive in the original HR20 with a large drive? Yes. Did I love the Series3 from mid-September to late December? Yes. Did I love the TiVo peanut remote especially the Glo-remote. Yes.

But today, July 2007, everyone in the house would pick the HR20.

We have zero issues, all three HR20's have 750GB eSATA drives, they're all ethernet connected (and ready for VOD), the family loves the picture-in-guide, kids are excited that NFL Sunday Ticket will be available throughout the house, they're now totally comfortable with the D* remote, the screens are quicker and the one-button instantaneous record is super, both output connections are always "live" to allow for modulated channels throughout the house, and the slingbox works great so we can schedule recordings and watch remotely.

At this point, we only look forward. We don't worry about what happened in the past.

Looking forward to VOD, and hopefully DLB, and ~100 HD channels by year-end, and maybe D* ToGo (via USB), and MRV. The D* development team in California totally owns the development platform and hopefully have 100% control of whatever goodies they dream up next.

#41 OFFLINE   bidger

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Posted 01 July 2007 - 10:56 AM

RS4's appearance just proves I was right in post # 12.

A real TiVo fan doesn't ask for someone else to bring them TiVo, they go get it. I can respect the folks on TCF who back up their words with action and threw down for a S3 and switched providers or who went ATSC OTA exclusively. Your attitude seems to be someone has to bring TiVo to you, which means you love TiVo conditionally, probably on the condition that it costs you $5-$6/mo, not $14-$17/mo. or $299 three year prepay. That, IMO, isn't real love.

Where others chose to follow TiVo, I decided to check out alternatives and that required investments on my part. It also required testing and comparison to either prove or disprove their viability, another area you don't seem to want to venture into. If you're going to rely on second hand opinions to make your determination, while dismissing any who offer positive assessment of other platforms, it shows your bias quite clearly. I can see who's drinking Kool Aid.

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#42 ONLINE   tonyd79

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Posted 01 July 2007 - 10:57 AM

Wow - my first post to the forum and already I'm being called names. :) I guess he didn't want to know why some people weren't drinking the Cool Aid.


Oh, yeah, cause nobody here has read your diatribes about the HR20 on tivocommunity. And you joined here just to bash the machine.

You just don't get it. These are the SAME PEOPLE who were Tivo fanatics who are jumping on the HR20.
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#43 OFFLINE   Sixto

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Posted 01 July 2007 - 11:03 AM

Oh, yeah, cause nobody here has read your diatribes about the HR20 on tivocommunity. And you joined here just to bash the machine.

You just don't get it. These are the SAME PEOPLE who were Tivo fanatics who are jumping on the HR20.

Agree. I was one of them. I debated Earl in 4Q2006 that the Series3 was better then the HR20.

All has changed since.

HR20 is now the choice. Plain and simple. As I posted earlier.

#44 OFFLINE   tfederov

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Posted 01 July 2007 - 11:07 AM

I've kept my mouth shut over at TiVocommunity. Here I won't. To quote you, RS4, "It's a shame that a few guys can really put the sour in a forum. I'm disappointed that they don't have enough decency to discuss the products openly instead of trying to hijack the forum and jam something down our throat that most people could care less about."

Using your logic, this is an HR20 forum. Do you have any experience with the HR20 or are you just blinded by your loyalty to TiVo? Most of us here have owned both systems. I have four HR10-250s sitting on a shelf collecting dust because they don't do what my HR20 can. I've been a TiVo fan since discovering them in 2001. I even have a TiVo coffee mug at work and one at home. Heck, I'm wearing my ValueElectronics TiVo T-shirt as I type this. How much time with an HR20 have you actually spent to form your opinions of this machine?
- Tony

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All receivers networked via DECA
MediaShare using TVersity on Win 7 VM over Mac Snow Leopard

#45 OFFLINE   Sixto

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Posted 01 July 2007 - 11:08 AM

Read the thread you're in ...

Xaa, while I'm on your side-of-the -fence for this debate, your name-calling wasn't appropriate. If I were you, I'd edit the post.

#46 OFFLINE   RS4

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Posted 01 July 2007 - 11:14 AM

I'd like nothing better then to try it, but I'm certainly going to commit to a 2-year contract without first trying it, especially with the mediocre reviews I read from Tivo owners.

If this were a cable company, I'd be able to return the box if I didn't like it, but Direct decides that they can't afford to do that. Okay - so I'll have to go by what I read.

I too had an early DTivo because I could only use one receiver for a while, but in all of the years I've had my Tivos, I've never lost recordings. I believe that I didn't have the quality issues that Direct is having with the HR20.

You all make excuses that because this box is new, it's totally acceptable for it to not even do basic functions until 9 months after being on the market. That to me is not a product that I would think much of. Instead, it only heightens my feelings that Direct didn't have a clue as to what they were doing and now you're stuck with a mediocre product that will probably improve over time.

The dvr industry has been around for many years, but yet Direct comes out with their own product (after having miserably failed with the NDS box) like they had never even looked at the other boxes in the market. The one example I point to is the OTA feature. It seems they decide to use 3rd generation technology when 5th generation is available. Then too, they try to get the dvr to scan for local over the air signals and can't even get that to work, so you're faced with a crapshoot - am I going to be able to receive my local channels based on my zip code?

Ask yourself how many people would be getting this box if they didn't want mpeg4 and of course the answer would be considerably less.

So, it's not necessary to call me names when I try to explain what to most people would be obvious reasons why they will wait. I'm merely trying to point out that this is in fact a bleeding edge group and there is nothing wrong with that. But, you don't need to jump all over us when most people don't want to put up with the quality of product that Direct has come out with.

We'll wait until we're forced into it, or we'll move along to another supplier. A lot of us would prefer that Direct and Tivo come to an agreement that would give us a Tivo mpeg4. If that doesn't happen, then a lot of us will move.

#47 OFFLINE   Xaa

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Posted 01 July 2007 - 11:19 AM

Xaa, while I'm on your side-of-the -fence for this debate, your name-calling wasn't appropriate. If I were you, I'd edit the post.


Yep, this troller caught me.

Edit made, thanks for the guidance back Sixto.

#48 OFFLINE   tfederov

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Posted 01 July 2007 - 11:21 AM

I'd like nothing better then to try it


Then until you do, you may want to disclaimer your posts with a "I never used an HR20, but this is what I hear..." or "The following opinion is based on hearsay"

That would be like me going over to a Mac forum and say how awful it is because it doesn't do something a PC can. I've never touched a Mac and I've only heard opinions. But since I heard them they must be true.

Find someone with an HR20 and take it for a spin before spewing FUD over here.

I'm done with this thread.
- Tony

SWiM16, H21-100, H23-600, H21-700 w/AM21, HR24-500, HR24-100 w/AM21, (3) HR20-700
All receivers networked via DECA
MediaShare using TVersity on Win 7 VM over Mac Snow Leopard

#49 OFFLINE   bidger

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Posted 01 July 2007 - 11:31 AM

And of course the biggest reason that I'll wait to see what the market bears is Directs arrogance.


How about we talk for awhile about TiVo's arrogance. It seems to me a company with Apple arrogance, but no iPod to back it up.

Everyone likes to see them as the little guy that gets pushed around, but let's follow their business model for awhile. Outside of the estimated 15 % of the nation that gets their programming exclusively over-the-air, some of those are S1 or S2 TiVo owners with their fingers crossed that those units will be able to control the ATSC converter boxes in Feb. 2009, everyone else uses a multichannel provider of some form. TiVo is a middle man in the chain, they don't provide programming, but they make their coin recording it. I can't blame cable and satellite who look at that situation and say, "TiVo didn't help pay for the fiber to be laid or the satellites to be launched, but they're taking cash from the DVR side". No wonder these companies find ways to lock TiVo out.

This is also the company who when DIRECTV announced they were moving on, shunned an agreement with Comcast. :eek2: They had to make a leadership change to reach an agreement! That's one of the reasons why people level the charge that they are clueless.

Look at how long it took them to offer multi service discounts, and even now they're highly conditional. They were more or less forced to offer them because folks were insistent why DIRECTV subs got a "one price covers all DVRs" and they had to pay full price.

Those are some of the reasons why when I see people say DIRECTV is entirely responsible for the severance of the relationship, I'm dubious.

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#50 OFFLINE   bidger

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Joined: Nov 19, 2005

Posted 01 July 2007 - 11:37 AM

You all make excuses that because this box is new


Don't make assumptions like that! It's the reason you're being called a troll. I stated quite clearly, as have others, if it didn't perform, it would be gone. What part of that don't you grasp?

Ceton 6 tuner eth, Cisco Tuning Adapter 1520, TWC Digital Explorer Pak and Standard Internet, TiVo HD (upgraded to 500 GB) for OTA,TC-P50U50, SONY NSZ-GT1 BD player and Google TV box, Yamaha RX-V373 A/V receiver, Squeezebox Duet music streaming device, Xbox 360 

 

 





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