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Guest Message by DevFuse

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Good Bye Tivo


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225 replies to this topic

#21 OFFLINE   lflorack

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Posted 30 June 2007 - 07:39 PM

HR20-700 is too loud for the foot of the bed. If I could be sure of getting an HR20-100 I might consider it.


That's interesting, my HR20-700 is pretty queit. Maybe it's because I can't hear......:grin:
Links: My System Diagram | System Pix
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#22 OFFLINE   bto4wd

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Posted 30 June 2007 - 08:48 PM

You folks must be very forgiving.

Now I've only had my HR20 since Tuesday. What I will say is it ain't half bad. But the general description I have at this time is that it's "clumsy"....for lack of a better word. Why would I even think that to view/manage my SLs I have to go into SETUP?

#1) The Remote: What chimp designed this? You have volume mid remote and trick play at the top. A remote should be handled expertly with one hand without the need to move the remove up and down in that hand. Just look at any Harmony remote or even a Tivo. No real big deal as I have a Harmony 880 and the RC34 is going in the "remote bin".

#2) Trick play just isn't crisp like my HR10, the guide is no speedier and has 2 less channels on it. Maybe after you use the HR20 for a few months or a year you get use to it. But sometimes it seems ok and other times it seems I'm in some type of time delay and things just take longer...or maybe it's just the beers kicking in. :) Also, the Slip just doesn't cut it.

#3) Already ran into some problem with the live buffer in which I put a show on pause (mpeg2) to fix lunch, came back and watched another 20 minutes before it got to a point it just froze. Thinking about it the point it froze was probably the point in the live show that I came back and resumed playing. I could RR and tried FF and the slip to get past the "dead zone" with no luck. Channel up and down didn't even clear up the problem. Oh well, it was just an old Bond movie and I moved on.

#4) Watched a recorded MPEG4 (local channel) last night and experienced frame shots from the NBC show that was currently being aired while playing the recorded program. I was watching the NBC Nightly news and say frame shots of the 1 in 100 game show. News was recorded at 5:30 and I was watching about 7:00-7:30.

#5) Audio dropouts (1-3 seconds) on SD programming and video pixelation also on SD programming. More than with the HR10.

#6) Wife hates it.

But I'm giving it time. And maybe that's the trick. Over time HR10 users forget how responsive that was. They forget about Wishlists and suggestions. And over time I may too. But as the OP mentioned, I will not forget about DLBs.

#23 OFFLINE   dmurphy

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Posted 30 June 2007 - 08:54 PM

Yep, I'm fully committed. I finally sold my HR10-250 on fleaBay.

Now, once the R15 gets stable, we'll talk about replacing all the standard-def TiVo's I have .... we'll see.

The way I see it - since I paid the DVR lifetime fee, whether I have 10 'regular' receivers on my account or 10 DVR's, it costs me exactly the same. So why not have DVR's?

The initial acquisition costs have been higher, of course. My first DTiVo (GXCEBOT) I picked up in 2001 for $75. It was selling for $200+ at the time, but I bought the floor model at Circuit City. The rest of them were either $75 or less.

I'd say I've made back that investment by now. :)

#24 OFFLINE   peano

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Posted 30 June 2007 - 08:55 PM

Does it have a UHF remote? How many tuners?

#25 OFFLINE   bidger

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Posted 30 June 2007 - 09:00 PM

You folks must be very forgiving.


Or you're too devoted.

Ceton 6 tuner eth, Cisco Tuning Adapter 1520, TWC Digital Explorer Pak and Standard Internet, TiVo HD (upgraded to 500 GB) for OTA,TC-P50U50, SONY NSZ-GT1 BD player and Google TV box, Yamaha RX-V373 A/V receiver, Squeezebox Duet music streaming device, Xbox 360 

 

 


#26 OFFLINE   shendley

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Posted 30 June 2007 - 09:55 PM

I retired my HR10 several months ago. And then a couple of months later it died. Got a second HR20 in its place! I think it knew its time was up and sacrificed itself so that a new, more worthy, and free (!) HR20 could take its place.

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#27 OFFLINE   ejd

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Posted 30 June 2007 - 10:12 PM

My HR10 retired itself many months ago. It was always rebooting.
The HR20 is at a point now that I don't miss it anymore, even without DLB. But it did serve me well in the early days of the HR20 when it was far from reliable.

#28 OFFLINE   bto4wd

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Posted 30 June 2007 - 10:59 PM

Or you're too devoted.

To what?

#29 OFFLINE   bidger

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Posted 01 July 2007 - 05:53 AM

The TiVo platform. That's not a shortcoming, but that's just how it is for some. They're hard-wired to one DVR. Ask the typical UTV user about other DVR platforms or how the Replay TV user felt about features that pushed the envelope.

Some are just more flexible. I have a friend who I gave a lifetime TiVo to who went to the Time-Warner DVR for HD because they didn't want to shell out for the S3. The only complaint I heard was the TWC DVR didn't do Wishlists.

Ceton 6 tuner eth, Cisco Tuning Adapter 1520, TWC Digital Explorer Pak and Standard Internet, TiVo HD (upgraded to 500 GB) for OTA,TC-P50U50, SONY NSZ-GT1 BD player and Google TV box, Yamaha RX-V373 A/V receiver, Squeezebox Duet music streaming device, Xbox 360 

 

 


#30 OFFLINE   Ken S

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Posted 01 July 2007 - 07:01 AM

To me it's never been about Tivo vs HR-20. Sure there are some features from the Tivo I miss like Suggestions and better guide data.
It is more about reliability. The T60s we had were very, very reliable the HR20s are not.
Oh, and after going over to a friend's house last night and using their Tivo "peanut" control...I once again realized how badly laid-out/designed the HR-20's remote is.

#31 OFFLINE   bidger

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Posted 01 July 2007 - 07:41 AM

Oh, and after going over to a friend's house last night and using their Tivo "peanut" control...I once again realized how badly laid-out/designed the HR-20's remote is.


:confused:

Are you not using the Logitech remote in your sig?

Yeah, the TiVo remote is nice, but it's limited over how many components it can control. My MX-600 was well worth the investment.

Ceton 6 tuner eth, Cisco Tuning Adapter 1520, TWC Digital Explorer Pak and Standard Internet, TiVo HD (upgraded to 500 GB) for OTA,TC-P50U50, SONY NSZ-GT1 BD player and Google TV box, Yamaha RX-V373 A/V receiver, Squeezebox Duet music streaming device, Xbox 360 

 

 


#32 OFFLINE   Ken S

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Posted 01 July 2007 - 07:42 AM

:confused:

Are you not using the Logitech remote in your sig?

Yeah, the TiVo remote is nice, but it's limited over how many components it can control. My MX-600 was well worth the investment.


Yes, we are using the Logitech. But we have two other HR-20s in different rooms that are controlled with the native remote.

#33 OFFLINE   jhstn58

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Posted 01 July 2007 - 07:52 AM

i haven't made the swwitch...yet. I'm struggling wih giving up the DLBs. I use them all the time.

#34 OFFLINE   lflorack

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Posted 01 July 2007 - 08:01 AM

You folks must be very forgiving.


Could be I suppose. However, sometimes I think a lot of discontent is based on the change. Sure, it's different. That, in itself, doesn't make it worse. It just makes it different. I had two SD Tivo's for a long time. Still have one on an SD TV in a room away from my main Home Theater setup. So, I'm comparing the two units pretty much all the time.

Highlight pluses for the HR-20-700
  • It does HD! -- and it handles MPEG4. This is obviously HUGE!
  • It's a LOT faster in just about everything it does
  • Single show recording setup is simple (and fast)
  • SL's setups are simple (and fast)

Highlight pluses for the SA Tivo Series2
  • The menus are pretty intuitive and easy to use
  • It's absolutely rock solid reliable
  • Suggestions are a great way to discover new programming I might be interested in
  • Searches are a bit more powerful

I'm sure I missed some on both sides, but I did this quickly.

I gave the rock-solid plus to Tivo but the HR20 is really not very far behind in most areas -- however, it is still behind. The big HR20 plus for me is that it is HD capable. That's a hard one to ignore. All in all, based on where the HR20 is and what it currently delivers (and what it continues to improve toward), I'm very happy with the HR20. Am I easy to please, maybe. But, I don't think so.

BTW, DLB isn't very important to me. (SA Tivos never had it anyway.)
Links: My System Diagram | System Pix
Yamaha RX-A2010, Samsung UN55B8000, AppleTV, Roku3, Yamaha CDC-685, Oppo BDP-93
Klipsch: (2) RF-83's, (1) RC-64, (2) RVX-54's, (2) RSX-5's
SVS: (1) SB13-Ultra
See links above for additional system details.

#35 OFFLINE   RS4

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Posted 01 July 2007 - 10:00 AM

I'm one of those people who will wait until I'm forced to get an HR20, or find an alternative that allows me use a Tivo.

I believe that Direct rushed a product to market and that the results are they've gotten a lot of help from a lot of people and have come up with a mediocre product as most cable companies have.

A lot of Tivo users have come to expect quality and ease of use. I don't see that in the HR20. A lot of people that change dvrs are expecting to find a better machine. All I see is that this unit will do mpeg4, which of course is a big deal if you want to be able to watch Direct's upcoming HD. So, this box is not impressive, in fact far from it due to its spotted past.

I'm sure there are many Tivo users that have come to accept the box, maybe even a few that actually like it, but my impression is that those of us who truly enjoy our Tivos will find this a giant step backwards.

Most comments I read say yeah, this box is okay, but it ain't a Tivo. That to me is not a glowing endorsement of a new product.

And of course the biggest reason that I'll wait to see what the market bears is Directs arrogance. I'm glad to see that direct appears to be listening to its customers. My question is, why didn't they listen years ago when the stand alone Tivos had all of the features that they wouldn't turn on for us DTivo users?

I believe they are listening to HR20 users now, because they have all this free help plus the fact that they came out with a disastrous product and probably would have had a riot on their hands if they couldn't get something to work half way decent in a short period of time. Most companies that put a product out like that would have been laughed off the streets.

When I canceled my NFLST a couple of weeks ago (not paying $350 to watch HD football), the lady told me they would ship an HR20 for $19.95. I asked one question - "is there a 30-day try it program - if you don't like it, send it back and there will be no 2-year commitment"? Her answer was that Direct has $800 in the box. Well, so what? They could just give the box to the next person on the list if I didn't like it. Instead, they have to lock me in for two years, whether I like it or not.

So, I'm not ready to sign up for a mediocre product with a company that I no longer have high esteem. My customer number with Direct is 13000, so you can imagine how long I've been a customer. Yet, I'm now looking at alternatives and one of the main reasons is because of what they've done with the Tivo customers and the Tivo replacements - settling for 'good enough'.

#36 OFFLINE   bidger

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Posted 01 July 2007 - 10:09 AM

Since I said some folks are devoted to a DVR platform, I should admit that my preference is towards DIRECTV as a programming provider for several reasons:
1) I have waivers for FOX and CBS in HD and TWC doesn't provide them.
2) NFL Network.
3) Lifetime DVR service, which has remained intact through my upgrade to HD.

That being said, I didn't just throw out the TiVo DVRs when I migrated. I waited for the HR and the MCE 2005 to prove that they would be worthy replacements. Mission accomplished. If it hadn't happened, I had the TiVos as fallback. But the fact is, as time went on, I had the nagging question, "I should keep the TiVos because ________", and I couldn't fill in the blank. I used them less and less and I couldn't justify holding onto them. I figured someone else would make better use of them than I was at that point.

If the two platforms hadn't proven themselves to me, I wouldn't have made excuses, I'd have made adjustments and they would have been out the door and TiVo would have reclaimed the top spot. That didn't happen though.

Could I be persuaded to leave DIRECTV? If another provider can meet at least the first 2 of the reasons I listed for staying. Maybe my priorities might change, but right now it's programming followed by DVR functionality. Could I go back to TiVo? I don't want to say never to anything, but to this point, I don't see any compelling reason(s).

Ceton 6 tuner eth, Cisco Tuning Adapter 1520, TWC Digital Explorer Pak and Standard Internet, TiVo HD (upgraded to 500 GB) for OTA,TC-P50U50, SONY NSZ-GT1 BD player and Google TV box, Yamaha RX-V373 A/V receiver, Squeezebox Duet music streaming device, Xbox 360 

 

 


#37 OFFLINE   Xaa

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Posted 01 July 2007 - 10:20 AM

I'm one of those people who will wait until I'm forced to get an HR20, or find an alternative that allows me use a Tivo.


Your choice.

I believe that Direct rushed a product to market and that the results are they've gotten a lot of help from a lot of people and have come up with a mediocre product as most cable companies have.


You're wrong about that unless you use mediocre to describe TiVo. The HR20 was WAY further along at release than the first DtiVo that took 9 months to enable the second tuner on beta.

A lot of Tivo users have come to expect quality and ease of use. I don't see that in the HR20. A lot of people that change dvrs are expecting to find a better machine. All I see is that this unit will do mpeg4, which of course is a big deal if you want to be able to watch Direct's upcoming HD. So, this box is not impressive, in fact far from it due to its spotted past.


You don't see anything in the HR20 because you only view it through your love affair with TiVo. Try it or shut up already. You don't know what you're talking about.

On top of Mpeg4 it gives:
FSI
Single tuner use for overlapping shows
Bulk play
Bulk delete
Quick Menu
Interactive features
30 sec slip that doesn't disappear
Fast setup of SL
Fast EVERYTHING compared to EVERY TiVo
PIG
Autocorrection enable/disable
90 min buffer
Better conflict resolution--actually choose which show not to record instead of tivo's choice
No yellow star advertising or PTCM's that take control of your unit

The list goes on, but you'd have to try it.


I'm sure there are many Tivo users that have come to accept the box, maybe even a few that actually like it, but my impression is that those of us who truly enjoy our Tivos will find this a giant step backwards.


Again, you're wrong. you don't enjoy your TiVo more than I enjoyed mine. I doubt you had yours sooner or for as long as I did. Again, you don't know what you're talking about but you're willing to bet others will find your baseless conclusion too. Your logic is mind boggling.

Most comments I read say yeah, this box is okay, but it ain't a Tivo. That to me is not a glowing endorsement of a new product.


Read the thread you're in {edit un-neighborly word}. These are the guys that blazed the trail for the Dtivo back in 2000.

And of course the biggest reason that I'll wait to see what the market bears is Directs arrogance. I'm glad to see that direct appears to be listening to its customers. My question is, why didn't they listen years ago when the stand alone Tivos had all of the features that they wouldn't turn on for us DTivo users?


Now we're getting to it. You don't want the commitment. Try to get an SA TiVo without one. That's the landscape for these products, not DTV's arrogance.

I believe they are listening to HR20 users now, because they have all this free help plus the fact that they came out with a disastrous product and probably would have had a riot on their hands if they couldn't get something to work half way decent in a short period of time. Most companies that put a product out like that would have been laughed off the streets.


Really, we didn't laugh TiVo off the street in 2000 with their single tuner DTivo that took months to become stable and then months more to activate the second tuner when UTV had it already. We worked with TiVo then and it's the same people working with DTV now. DTV is just simply 1 million times swifter and able to make these changes quickly. Tivo's development speed can be measured in that Comcast box that's about 2 years late now.

So, I'm not ready to sign up for a mediocre product with a company that I no longer have high esteem. My customer number with Direct is 13000, so you can imagine how long I've been a customer. Yet, I'm now looking at alternatives and one of the main reasons is because of what they've done with the Tivo customers and the Tivo replacements - settling for 'good enough'.



DTV won't miss you. Go follow TiVo and get what you deserve. What you have is a mediocre product. it's essentially and equivalent DVR with suggestions that in September will only receive about 1/2 of the programming you want. Nice unit!

Xaa

#38 OFFLINE   RS4

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Posted 01 July 2007 - 10:36 AM

Wow - my first post to the forum and already I'm being called names. :) I guess he didn't want to know why some people weren't drinking the Cool Aid.

#39 OFFLINE   Xaa

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Posted 01 July 2007 - 10:50 AM

You didn't provide any reasons other thatn "I heard it ain't super fantastic".

You're rant had no substance.

I drank your Kool Aid too RS4, before you did. I drank more and enjoyed it more. There are other drinks out there. I'm not saying that you'll prefer what I like, but you can't know if you'll like it regardless of how many times you tell yourself it stinks. Open your mind and try it.

#40 ONLINE   Sixto

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Posted 01 July 2007 - 10:56 AM

I'm one of those people who will wait until I'm forced to get an HR20, or find an alternative that allows me use a Tivo.

It's a nice summer day and I should sit back, relax, and have a Pina Colada but it's posts like these that get the blood flowing ...

Background: Been with D* for a very long time. They mention "A List" customer whenever I call. Also been a Cablevision cable customer for a very long time. Had D* on the 3 primary TV's (Me, Wife, Kids) and Cablevision throughout the house on the other 5 TV's. Two of the D* boxes are also modulated to two cable channels and available to all of the cable connected TV's in the house.

I spent a few months doing an analysis of D* vs Cable vs FIOS and HR10 vs HR20 vs Series3. For FIOS TV (which just became available in my neighborhood), I didn't actually get a box, just used the write-ups and forums for info.

The net result was that the winner was the HR20 with D*.

We now have three HR20's and I can honestly say that we have zero problems. I can not speak for others. Usually, when I make a post about zero problems, then a number of people post that they have issues. We have zero issues.

And this is not a biased sample. I'm a techy and love this stuff but the wife and kids are joe-average consumers. Not a single peep in several months.

Yes, the HR20 had issues at the beginning. But now (for us) it is 100% reliable. 100%.

Was I ready to revolt when the TiVo relationship was discontinued? Yes. Did I lose my mind when the original HR20 missed a recording? Yes. Was I ticked off when I learned that the HR20 didn't do DLB? Yes. Was I unhappy when I couldn't swap out the drive in the original HR20 with a large drive? Yes. Did I love the Series3 from mid-September to late December? Yes. Did I love the TiVo peanut remote especially the Glo-remote. Yes.

But today, July 2007, everyone in the house would pick the HR20.

We have zero issues, all three HR20's have 750GB eSATA drives, they're all ethernet connected (and ready for VOD), the family loves the picture-in-guide, kids are excited that NFL Sunday Ticket will be available throughout the house, they're now totally comfortable with the D* remote, the screens are quicker and the one-button instantaneous record is super, both output connections are always "live" to allow for modulated channels throughout the house, and the slingbox works great so we can schedule recordings and watch remotely.

At this point, we only look forward. We don't worry about what happened in the past.

Looking forward to VOD, and hopefully DLB, and ~100 HD channels by year-end, and maybe D* ToGo (via USB), and MRV. The D* development team in California totally owns the development platform and hopefully have 100% control of whatever goodies they dream up next.




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