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digital home service and VIP622


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12 replies to this topic

#1 OFFLINE   Dan Posey

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Posted 02 July 2007 - 03:52 PM

I am using a device that eliminates a land line and uses my cell phone instead (Doc-N-Talk). I have discovered that my telephone system is fully dtmf (digital) compliant. This causes a big problem with the Analog modem (very old technology) inside my VIP622. (who would have thought analog modem in a digital receiver ). All of my cheap old 2 line phones still work fine on this new system. I even can get a connection (thru the VIP622 diagonistics) as well as receive caller id's. I do know that the VIP622 will dial out and dish network's computer answers the call and sends a modem handshake, however my VIP622 does not hear the handshake very well apparently and I get a 'dial out failure'. I even bought a 2-line DSL filter and still 'failure'. Surely I am not the only person in the whole world who is trying to talk to the Vip622 using digital technology. Does anyone have any suggestions other than spending $27 a month on an antiquated land line?

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#2 OFFLINE   Stewart Vernon

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Posted 02 July 2007 - 05:25 PM

You do realize, I hope, that dtmf has nothing at all to do with digital right?

DTMF= Dual tone multi-frequency

This refers to the type of dialing (touch-tone) vs the older pulsing from rotary phones. DTMF refers to the dual-tone method of generating the sounds you hear when you press the keys on a touch-tone phone.. and in turn those signals are processed by the telephone company in order to connect your call.

DTMF predates digital phone technology by quite a bit and really has nothing to do with it.

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#3 OFFLINE   Dan Posey

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Posted 02 July 2007 - 05:29 PM

You do realize, I hope, that dtmf has nothing at all to do with digital right?

DTMF= Dual tone multi-frequency

This refers to the type of dialing (touch-tone) vs the older pulsing from rotary phones. DTMF refers to the dual-tone method of generating the sounds you hear when you press the keys on a touch-tone phone.. and in turn those signals are processed by the telephone company in order to connect your call.

DTMF predates digital phone technology by quite a bit and really has nothing to do with it.


Now I do, thanks. But how does my response help you give me a solution?

#4 OFFLINE   James Long

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Posted 02 July 2007 - 05:55 PM

Not sure this will help either ...
The port on the back of the 622 EXPECTS to be connected to an analog line.
The 622 dials out on that line using (Menu-6-1-4) Touch Tone (DTMF) or Rotary Phone (Pulse) technology.

Your fancy device needs to mimic an analog phone line. It MUST provide dial tome and MUST accept DTMF or pulse dialing. This is true whether you are using an analog phone to cell adapter or a IP telephone device such as Vonage. If you can connect a good old fashioned analog phone to the port, dial and get connected you are well on the way to getting a 622 (or other E* receiver) to talk on that port.

What seems to be failing is either the actual connection (translating the 622's dialed digits to what needs to be dialed on a cellphone) or the quality of the service. E* is trying to make a modem connection via analog. Your cell connection is trying to carry analog signals of enough quality to carry a modem connection. This is where the cellphone is failing.

Via "Vonage" one has enough bandwidth to get a modem connection over analog. Some IP Phone connections may not give you enough bandwidth. It is likely that your cell connection won't have the bandwidth.

A few years ago when cellphones were mostly analog I'd say get a bag phone and make the connection in analog on the phone network, not digital. But AMPS service is going away soon enough that it really isn't an option.

Summary of connection:
622 <--- analog ---> Plain Old Telephone Service <--- analog ---> E* is that the receiver expects
622 <--- analog ---> Vonage Box or "Doc-n-Talk" <--- digital ---> Public phone system <--- analog ---> E*
is what you are doing (or a Vonage customer)

The analog segments can carry DTMF and modem tones. The digital segment has to digitize all analog.
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#5 OFFLINE   Dan Posey

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Posted 02 July 2007 - 09:19 PM

Thanks James. I really appreciate your explanation. Looks like my VIP622 will not be able to communicate thru my digital system. Maybe one day we will see digital modems in our satellite receivers .....

#6 OFFLINE   Stewart Vernon

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Posted 02 July 2007 - 10:05 PM

James beat me back for a better reply..

The gyst of alot of things here is... Your service may be compatible with your cellphone, by meeting some minimum requirements, and this may permit some analog devices to work while others do not.

One thing about analog phone service in general... despite whatever standard should be maintained, the phone company basically used to stand only by voice-quality... which meant they would often shrug their shoulders if you had a modem problem. I used to run into this all the time... back when using a modem that should have been faster than 9600 baud, the phone company would not do anything to fix a problem unless voice communications was effected.

Times have changed, and we have DSL in many markets... and the phone company is forced to some extend to provide a better level of service than in the past... but many of the old standards are still the standard for voice communications.

So... coming back full circle... It is entirely possible you have a device that is up to standards for providing voice communications, but not capable of providing a reliable modem connection. It is probably not something that the designer of the product you use would have really put alot of thought into I suspect.

It does mean you might be out of luck for the moment. Maybe others with a similar service will chime in and offer suggestions?

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#7 OFFLINE   James Long

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Posted 02 July 2007 - 10:14 PM

Unless you are using a wireless provider's data network (and they have a decent data network) you're limited to whatever the wireless provider considers "voice quality". Nothing that "Doc-n-Talk" can do about that.

Most wireless systems consider 8k to be enough for voice. As they pack their systems fuller I would not expect 13k or better connections unless the phone isn't capable of anything less (and then expect the call to be dropped by the carrier as a "hint" that you need a new phone that doesn't hog their system :) ).
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#8 OFFLINE   Dan Posey

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Posted 03 July 2007 - 11:32 AM

Thanks HDMe and James for your help. I'm using ALLTEL with an 815 motorola, don't know if thats my problem or not. However, it does look like my next best chance to communicate automatically will be to wait for the IP connection. Again Thanks!

#9 OFFLINE   HD_Wayne

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Posted 04 July 2007 - 12:51 PM

I am using a device that eliminates a land line and uses my cell phone instead (Doc-N-Talk). This causes a big problem with the Analog modem (very old technology) inside my VIP622. Surely I am not the only person in the whole world who is trying to talk to the Vip622 using digital technology. Does anyone have any suggestions other than spending $27 a month on an antiquated land line?


There is digital technology and there is digital technology. What I mean by that is that just being digital does not specify the quality or reliability of the connection. The cell phone digital technologies in use in the USA are TDMA (Verizon) CDMA (Sprint, Boost) and GSM (Cingular/AT&T, T-Mobile). Because of the compression used there is not enough bandwidh to support an analog modem connection on a digital cell phone. If you happen to have an AMPS analog cell phone, that has the same bandwidth as a standard home phone line (POTS) has. However it is not an idea solution because of cell switching causing a monentary interruption in the connection and because the FCC has ordered all AMPS service terminated next February 2008. To get your STB analog modem to work you have to have a phone company provided land line (via copper/fiber) or a service like vonage or sunrocket. What would be ideal is if E* will provide the capability to communicate via the ethernet port instead of the analog modem port removing the need for a POTS phone line.

#10 OFFLINE   James Long

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Posted 04 July 2007 - 05:00 PM

... because the FCC has ordered all AMPS service terminated next February 2008.

For clarity, the FCC is not requiring providers to terminate AMPS. They simply will no longer be requiring providers to provide AMPS service.

What would be ideal is if E* will provide the capability to communicate via the ethernet port instead of the analog modem port removing the need for a POTS phone line.

That will help - although anyone with broadband could get a simple Skype or other free or virtually free IP phone service and connect via the phone lines.
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#11 OFFLINE   HD_Wayne

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Posted 17 July 2007 - 12:40 AM

For clarity, the FCC is not requiring providers to terminate AMPS. They simply will no longer be requiring providers to provide AMPS service.That will help - although anyone with broadband could get a simple Skype or other free or virtually free IP phone service and connect via the phone lines.


Thanks for the info. I will have to go back and re-read slashdot to see if I missed something. Anyways Verizon here is terminating all their AMPS customers next February. I guess it will be GSM, for me at least, from now on. Since GSM has 74% of the world cell phone users I would go with the main stream using a quad band unlocked phone.

Does Skype support an RJ-11 type connection to permit one to connect to their STB?

Wayne

#12 OFFLINE   James Long

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Posted 17 July 2007 - 02:31 AM

Thanks for the info. I will have to go back and re-read slashdot to see if I missed something. Anyways Verizon here is terminating all their AMPS customers next February. I guess it will be GSM from now on.

FYI: Verizon has chosen to use CDMA and has just upgraded it's data networks to Rev A EVDO. They have too much invested in that direction to go GSM now. The have been migrating customers over to CDMA for years, both from analog cell companies and the non CDMA systems that have been added in the past. (Much like E* and D* are migrating their customers over to MPEG4 receivers by making the value worth the upgrade.)

Does Skype support an RJ-11 type connection to permit one to connect to their STB?

That I don't know.
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#13 OFFLINE   HD_Wayne

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Posted 20 July 2007 - 10:23 AM

FYI: Verizon has chosen to use CDMA and has just upgraded it's data networks to Rev A EVDO. They have too much invested in that direction to go GSM now. The have been migrating customers over to CDMA for years, both from analog cell companies and the non CDMA systems that have been added in the past. (Much like E* and D* are migrating their customers over to MPEG4 receivers by making the value worth the upgrade.)
That I don't know.


Sorry I should have been more specific about that. I ment GSM for my future needs. Which in this area could be T_Mobile or Cingular now the new AT&T.




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