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2nd tv Diplexer problem


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34 replies to this topic

#21 OFFLINE   harsh

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Posted 21 July 2007 - 10:09 AM

Should the diplexer with the output to TV2 be a splitter instead?

There should be a splitter on the ANT out of the top diplexer that goes from there to the ViP622 ANT in and the ViP622 home distribution out.

You use splitters to join (or split) OTA with OTA and diplexers to join (or separate) OTA and SAT.

After the top diplexer, there is no more OTA signal left to split out with the bottom diplexer.

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#22 OFFLINE   harsh

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Posted 21 July 2007 - 10:16 AM

Oh yeah... when I make the various short connections, which ones MUST be with RG6 instead of R59?

Don't waste your time (nor signal) with RG59. If you have some shorties, they can be used ONLY on the OTA frequencies, but know that the signal will be somewhat diminished (especially if you use high UHF frequencies). If you're sending the signal out in multiple directions, you don't want to waste it on cable loss.

Any included RG59 cables were intended to be used only to connect to a TV tuner (and most have a label saying exactly that). In the industry, this is known as "last mile".

#23 OFFLINE   tollhaus

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Posted 21 July 2007 - 12:38 PM

I know that I keep replying to myself, but I did some more research and came up with some more info, I think.

This diagram should allow my OTA to go to my Vip6222 and TV2 and 3, I believe. It should also allow either TV2 or TV3 to work as TV2, right?

Thanks for all your help!
>>> I removed the image and posted a new diagram below which follows Harsh's comments.<<

#24 OFFLINE   tollhaus

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Posted 21 July 2007 - 12:48 PM

There should be a splitter on the ANT out of the top diplexer that goes from there to the ViP622 ANT in and the ViP622 home distribution out.


Ok... how about this:

Posted Image

#25 OFFLINE   isuzudave

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Posted 21 July 2007 - 10:46 PM

I am no expert, but I think you need to get rid of the second from the top diplexer in your diagram. I think with that diplexer wired like that it would block you OTA to the receiver. If you get rid of it I think you would back feed your TV2 output up your OTA cable all the way to the top splitter and your home dist. center. You might end up broadcasting your TV2 from your antenna though.

#26 OFFLINE   harsh

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Posted 21 July 2007 - 11:57 PM

Yes, he's doing it again with the two diplexers; I warned about this in post #21. They must be used only in combine-separate pairs. The second diplexer is going to stop one or the other signal from getting through.

There needs to be another splitter opposite the LNB; one leg coming in from the antenna splitter and the other leg going out to the distribution system "combiner". I'm pretty sure this is going to require an OTA amplifier with four splitters involved.

This is probably asking too much of diplexers to be going all different directions. Technically, it might work, but there is going to be some serious signal degradation and it will be next to impossible to troubleshoot.

#27 OFFLINE   red hazard

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Posted 22 July 2007 - 03:14 PM

[quote name='tollhaus']Ok... how about this:

(see previous image thread)
ASSUMPTIONS:
1. I am going to assume that you using diplexers because you must share one RG6 coax between your OTA antenna and satellite dish locations and the 622 location?
2. Your goal in addition to receiving OTA and satellite in the 622 is to combine OTA
and 622 TV output for input into a Home Distro Center (whatever that is) that will distribute the combined TV signals into TV2 and TV3.
3. I am confused about your adjustable gain outdoor antenna. (There's no need for diplexers if you are using an indoor antenna as you should be able to run the antenna directly into the 622 w/o a diplexer being used). I am therefore going to assume you have a separate TV antenna amplifier (which your diagram omits)between the diplexer TV IN/OUT near the 622 and the 622 V/UHF IN.

ANSWER:
Take the diplexer TV IN/OUT (or equivalent) and run to a 1X2 TV splitter (or the amp's "TO TV" to the splitter. One splitter output goes into the 622. Purchase a join-tenna model 585-3 from Warren Electronics and have them set it for any one UHF channel 53 - 69 you want and match that to the 622 TV output selected frequency. Connect the other splitter output to the 585-3 full spectrum input, and the 622 output to the single channel input of the 585-3. Run the combined output to your Home Distro Cntr. There may be issues because the output signal from the 622 wil be MUCH stronger than the antenna's signal - - particularly after going through 2 diplexers and a splitter. You would be much better off running another RG6 coax to the antenna getting rid of the diplexers which have about 3 dB loss each (50% loss each) and the splitter has a loss of 3.5 dB. Better yet, get an outdoor antenna with a preamp and use with the new coax run (preamp will not work with diplexers).
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#28 OFFLINE   tollhaus

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Posted 22 July 2007 - 10:19 PM

Hmmm... ok, I barely understood that.

The "Home Dist. Center" is simply an 8 way splitter. In the utility room of my house all the coax in the house (RG6) runs into an OnQ box and I can easily make connections here.

I have tried to run an additional RG6 cable and it wasn't worth the effort in the wall where it would have to go. The ant. I'm using is a simple indoor amplified antenna. I wanted to just run the RG6 from that (upstairs) to the box in the utility room and make all the connections there (the splitters and extra diplexers that I'm trying to use). I think from re-reading Harsh's post and I think I can finally wrap my brain around this.

Basically my HD locals aren't available through Dish in my area, so I bought the ant. Since I already spent money on the ant. I figured I'd save $5/month and cancel the locals from Dish. Since I was cancelling the locals from dish, I figured I'd try to get locals to TV2 so that we can watch the locals in there while the VIP622 is in Dual mode.

Would dropping one of the diplexers off the top of the diagram and simply connecting the "TV2 out" feed and the Antennae to a splitter. (I'll post a new diagram in case I'm not being clear.)

Ignore the HDC, just think of it as TV2 (since I only have one other TV in the house and I am ok with them mirroring each other, just think of them as one entity).

Thanks for all the help, guys... sorry I'm a bit slow.

#29 OFFLINE   tollhaus

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Posted 22 July 2007 - 11:13 PM

How about this one?

I'm going to try it tomorrow or Tuesday and I'll let you know. (The only delay is making a few RG6 short cables.)

Posted Image

#30 OFFLINE   isuzudave

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Posted 23 July 2007 - 08:49 AM

I think that should work.

#31 OFFLINE   red hazard

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Posted 23 July 2007 - 10:48 AM

That may work. My only concerns are the approx 13 dB (~95%) loss between the OTA antenna and the V/UHF TV input into the 622 and the loss in the 8-way splitter to TV2/3 (unless its amplified). Post your results please. R U receiving from the Austin or Waco DMAs?

BTW I plan on retiring in your area in about a year.
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#32 OFFLINE   tollhaus

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Posted 23 July 2007 - 08:13 PM

I'm getting my stations from Waco, mostly. I'll definitely post if it works (or not).

Thanks for all the help.

Are splitters really directional? And by that I mean, can I have the Antenna connected to one of the extra "OUT" spots on the 8 way splitter? If the antenna and the two TVs were connected to three "outs" and the "TV2 OUT" from the VIP622 was in the IN then all the signals should get distributed, I'd think. It it worked, it'd cut out one more splitter to preserve some signal strength.

Posted Image

#33 OFFLINE   tollhaus

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Posted 23 July 2007 - 11:28 PM

I just hooked it up as drawn in my last post (#32). Currently I have nothing hooked to the "in" of the 6 way splitter (not 8 way as I thought). I have 4 cables hooked to the "outs" -- Antenna, TV2, TV3 and RG6 to the diplexer which then goes to the VIP622 location.

The good news is that My locals pass through to the VIP622 on the one RG6 cable that's in the walls. That gives me the HD Locals on TV1.
More good news... the locals also get to the other TV just like good ole fashion off air channels.

The bad news, though, is that the TV2 signal is degraded and almost unusable. It could be because there is an off-air channel nearby (62 I think... and the TV2 output is coming in on 60).

I've played with a few combinations of what comes "in" to the 6 way splitter and which go out. Any suggestions?

How would I just use the OTA for the HD Locals (going to VIP622 input) but still get the signal from tuner #2 out to my 2nd TV? (Basically I'd give up on getting my weak antenna all over the house, but I still want to use the 2nd tuner over the RG6 to TV2 in the bedroom.

Thanks again.

#34 OFFLINE   tollhaus

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Posted 23 July 2007 - 11:57 PM

I switched the modulated channel and we're in business.

With the diagram in post #32, I'm getting the locals throughout the house (VIP622, TV2 in the bedroom and the TV3 upstairs) and the TV2 output to both TV2 and TV3. In the diagram, the "Home Dist Ctr" represents a 6-way splitter with the "IN" port connected to the "VHF/UHF" of the diplexer that is closes to the Sat Dish outside. Three "OUT" ports are occupied by the Antenna and RG6 x 2 to two other rooms in the house (TV2 and TV3).

The only weird thing seems to be that the local ABC (channel 25 has dropped out completely). It had about 70 on the signal strength before (when I had a cable running through my living room directly to the Ant In port on the VIP622). Even on the TVs getting ABC-25 over the air there is just a blank screen… not static like all the other channels without service.

Thanks for the help!

#35 OFFLINE   ssmith10pn

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Posted 24 July 2007 - 05:25 AM

You need a line amp for the OTA between the antenna and the first splitter.

Probably 25 DB
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