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Guest Message by DevFuse

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My first 100 Days with the HR-20


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54 replies to this topic

#21 OFFLINE   judson_west

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Posted 11 July 2007 - 11:42 AM

I too have had my HR20 for about 100 days. I upgraded from a HR10 and the HR20 is my primary receiver/DVR (as I only have DVR's for D* stuff). In MY situation, the HR20 has been as capable as my HR10 was/is in the most basic respect -- recording and playing content. There are areas of the HR20 that I appreciate over the HR10 and there are areas of the HR20 that are not up to HR10 standards. Before I made the jump, I monitored DBSTalk for months a witnessed a decline in the number of general issues with the HR20. I decided a few months ago to take the plunge and have not been sorry I did.
Video/Audio 1: DirecTV HR24-500 (HDMI)-> Sony STR-DA5200ES -> Sony KDL-52XBR9
Video/Audio 2: DirecTV HR20-700 (HDMI) -> Sony KDL-32EX500
Video/Audio 3: DirecTV HR20-700 (HDMI) -> Sony KDL-40EX500

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#22 OFFLINE   Ken S

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Posted 11 July 2007 - 01:03 PM

Ken S, now I know you knew I wasn't telling you it was your batteries. :lol:

Should all of this be fixed? You bet.

My point was:
1) to agree with you.
2) to attempt to show how the programs we want to record could account for why some of us do and others don't have an issue.
3) give others some idea of how long the chain was to their TV. :)


VOS,

I know...I hate that I couldn't convey the ::wink:: better to you.
Geez...I'm gonna go take some more "nice" pills.

#23 OFFLINE   veryoldschool

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Posted 11 July 2007 - 01:09 PM

VOS,

I know...I hate that I couldn't convey the ::wink:: better to you.
Geez...I'm gonna go take some more "nice" pills.

Those silly little smilies do so much. :friendsch
A.K.A VOS

#24 OFFLINE   chef8181

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Posted 11 July 2007 - 01:43 PM

I'm at around 100 days as well. I was expecting the worse with the HR20 from reading this forum and other online reviews of it but it's been pretty solid for me. And I haven't really missed my DirecTivo at all which really surprised me.

The interface isn't as good at Tivo's but it's pretty good and so many things are easier to do like one button recording and mark and delete programs from the list.

Agree that the 30 second skip is not really 30 seconds but variable. I've gotten use to it so it's not a huge deal.

A dedicated Slow Motion button would be nice because holding down play for 3 seconds is worthless.

The only recording I've had problems with are manual ones not getting recorded occasionally. For some reason my manual recording of SportsCenter in HD every Sunday seems to not record every other week. When I go to history it just says "Did not record". I've never been able to figure out that one.

I don't have OTA or even local HD channels so no problems there. Which leads me to my biggest complaint - DirecTV doesn't offer local HDs in my market yet. That is suppose to happen this fall. When that happens and they turn on all the promised new HD channels I'm going to be pretty happy.
HR20, Sony 50' Rear Projection HDTV (KDFE50A10)

#25 OFFLINE   hasan

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Posted 11 July 2007 - 01:50 PM

I don't have OTA or even local HD channels so no problems there. Which leads me to my biggest complaint - DirecTV doesn't offer local HDs in my market yet. That is suppose to happen this fall. When that happens and they turn on all the promised new HD channels I'm going to be pretty happy.


I hope D* is more "timely" with your HD locals than they have been with mine. I don't care a lot, because I have such heavy emphasis on OTA...but D* said it would be Jan 2007 at the latest, and here we are, mid-July and nada.

Of course, it doesn't help matters that there are OTA stations missing from the guide (which means I can't get them), mis-mapped stations and wrong guide info for OTA as well.

Thank God that ABC, CBS, PBS, NBC and Fox all are in the guide and work beautifully OTA. I'm missing CW network (which I consider minimally significant...I can't recall the last time I watched something on it), and a religious channel (that I can also do without). It's more the "principle of the thing" than anything else.

...hasan, N0AN

SlimLine5-SWiMLNB/DECA/WHDVR
HR44-700, WD20EURX 2 TB eSATA/ThermalTake Max 5 Enclosure

HR24-200, WD20EVDS 2 TB eSATA/ThermalTake Dock

HR24-200, H21-200. Samsung UN60C6400 60" LED/LCD

DirecTV since 1995


#26 OFFLINE   Fish Man

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Posted 11 July 2007 - 02:15 PM

4. On occasion the HR 20 will shutdown a tuner without warning. Programs won't record and even their system test will not report the problem.


Ah ha!!!

I'm not crazy!! ;)

(Well, at least there's evidence I didn't imagine this HR20 problem. ;) )

Some time back I reported this. My report was met with the following response from others on this board: <crickets chirping>

Both tuners appear to be working and both show excellent signal strengths, but the HR20 will simply refuse to USE one of them. A soft reboot will clear the problem.

When the HR20 enters this "mode", the section on the info page about tuners will read something like this (going by memory, I'm at work and away from my HR20):

SAT Tuner 1: MPEG2, MPEG4, Record
SAT Tuner 2: MPEG2, MPEG4,
ATSC Tuner 1: Record
ATSC Tuner 2: Record

Note the lack of the word "record" at the end of the line about the second tuner. When the HR20 is working properly, it will have the word "record" at the end of each line.

To comment on the OP's other complaints:

Recently' the HR10 (older TiVo based unit) has become less stable. The last few firmware updates, combined with some additional data in the satellite stream has destabilized it. Some examples include missed recordings with a bogus "someone in your household modified the season pass" reason for the missed recording and the occasional outright lockup.

So, in light of the recent destabilization of the HR10, I find the HR20 to be at least as reliable, perhaps a bit more so. In fact, the more I've been using my HR20, the more I've been growing to like it.

#27 OFFLINE   TBoneit

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Posted 11 July 2007 - 02:29 PM

My first 100 Days with the HR-20
- The HR-20 has problems starting and stopping a show on time. It is almost mandatory to "pad" record requests if you want the first few seconds or last minute of a show.

This is the only problem I have with two HR20s, and its a BIG problem with me. We should not have to pad ever show.


One possibility for this problem is that the Satellite shows lag the time the box uses. Or to put it another way if you compare a OTA show to a satellite transmission of the same show using a PIP window on the TV for example. You will see tha the OTA is ahead of the Sat version. two reasons come to mind for this lag. Reason 1 time to compress, reason 2 time spent uplinking and downlinking it from the Geosynch orbit.

Thus if the show ends exactly on time and the HR20 stops recording exactly on time you may lose a bit at the end.

And of course the networks never seem to start and end on time anyway.

In summation it may not be the HR20 it may be a combination of external events.
The cure is to pad the start and stop times. A default pad setting is a necessity these days.

#28 OFFLINE   veryoldschool

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Posted 11 July 2007 - 02:32 PM

One possibility for this problem is that the Satellite shows lag the time the box uses. Or to put it another way if you compare a OTA show to a satellite transmission of the same show using a PIP window on the TV for example. You will see tha the OTA is ahead of the Sat version. two reasons come to mind for this lag. Reason 1 time to compress, reason 2 time spent uplinking and downlinking it from the Geosynch orbit.

Thus if the show ends exactly on time and the HR20 stops recording exactly on time you may lose a bit at the end.

And of course the networks never seem to start and end on time anyway.

In summation it may not be the HR20 it may be a combination of external events.
The cure is to pad the start and stop times. A default pad setting is a necessity these days.

All true info, but doesn't the HR-20 get it's time from the SAT data stream too?
A.K.A VOS

#29 OFFLINE   TBoneit

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Posted 11 July 2007 - 02:40 PM

True I would expect that it gets its time from there but if that time is correct then the HR20 time will not match the downlinked show. If they are offsetting the time sent to receivers to match the delays in the process then that becomes a moot point.

I suspect that different encoders being used have different delays too, MPEG2 vs MPEG4 and possibly even different makes and models of SD MPG2 encoders. HD vs SD and so on.

I know that the USB2 MPG capture device on my XP MCE system really delays the signal as compared to live if I put both in a pip window on the TV.

#30 OFFLINE   veryoldschool

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Posted 11 July 2007 - 02:49 PM

True I would expect that it gets its time from there but if that time is correct then the HR20 time will not match the downlinked show. If they are offsetting the time sent to receivers to match the delays in the process then that becomes a moot point.

I suspect that different encoders being used have different delays too, MPEG2 vs MPEG4 and possibly even different makes and models of SD MPG2 encoders. HD vs SD and so on.

I know that the USB2 MPG capture device on my XP MCE system really delays the signal as compared to live if I put both in a pip window on the TV.

Which is most likely not happening. The group delay is not being accounted for.They also can stop early too, so?
A.K.A VOS

#31 OFFLINE   machavez00

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Posted 11 July 2007 - 02:49 PM

Ken, thanks for the info. I appreciate the honest review.

I left DirecTV about 6 months ago because of problems with the HR20. I just popped back into the forum to see if things had improved. It sounds like they haven't. Perhaps I'll check back in another 6 months.

In the mean time, I've been quite happy with Comcast and the Tivo Series 3. Comcast had to visit me twice to fix CableCard problems. However, the day-to-day operations of the Tivo is nearly flawless. It has recorded thousands of shows with zero errors.


$800 for the series 3 and $8 to $13 a month, Ouch

#32 OFFLINE   kbohip

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Posted 11 July 2007 - 04:43 PM

You know, at first I was a bit worried after reading Ken's thread, and truthfully I still am. The thing is though, these problems aren't that bad considering the problems I had years ago with Dish dvr's. Now those were crappy dvr's! I remember the big thing that everyone was waiting for on the 522 dual tuner model (Dish's first).

The big thing we were all waiting for after "Charlie" had promised it to us in one of his worthless "Charlie Chats" was name based recording. That's right, we wouldn't have to setup the dvr the same way we'd been setting up vcr's for years.:eek2: Keep in mind that at that time Directv was introducing the Directivo. Amazing that I stayed with Dish for as long as I did back then. The 522 never did get NBR either.:nono2:

There are two things I'm really looking forward to that the HR20 has that the HR10 doesn't. The recording space indicator and the 90 minute buffer. I still to this day detest Tivo for not having this. I also can't wait to get away from the stupid Tivo autocorrection feature that tries to guess how far back it should go when I press play after fast forwarding. All it does is make me try and guess how much farther I need to go after I see the show starting.

#33 OFFLINE   jbrasure

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Posted 12 July 2007 - 12:13 AM

$800 for the series 3 and $8 to $13 a month, Ouch


But if it actually works, then it is so worth it!

#34 OFFLINE   Ken S

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Posted 12 July 2007 - 05:23 AM

Fish Man,
There is a way to see the problem. Just not where you think. Go into Setup and Satellite and then when you get to Signal Strength go to Signal Meters. I think this is the only place where the HR-20 actually shows you the readings on BOTH tuners at the same time.
I just check that every so often to correct the issue. It's part of the HR-20 babysitting plan.


Ah ha!!!

I'm not crazy!! ;)

(Well, at least there's evidence I didn't imagine this HR20 problem. ;) )

Some time back I reported this. My report was met with the following response from others on this board: <crickets chirping>

Both tuners appear to be working and both show excellent signal strengths, but the HR20 will simply refuse to USE one of them. A soft reboot will clear the problem.

When the HR20 enters this "mode", the section on the info page about tuners will read something like this (going by memory, I'm at work and away from my HR20):

SAT Tuner 1: MPEG2, MPEG4, Record
SAT Tuner 2: MPEG2, MPEG4,
ATSC Tuner 1: Record
ATSC Tuner 2: Record

Note the lack of the word "record" at the end of the line about the second tuner. When the HR20 is working properly, it will have the word "record" at the end of each line.

To comment on the OP's other complaints:

Recently' the HR10 (older TiVo based unit) has become less stable. The last few firmware updates, combined with some additional data in the satellite stream has destabilized it. Some examples include missed recordings with a bogus "someone in your household modified the season pass" reason for the missed recording and the occasional outright lockup.

So, in light of the recent destabilization of the HR10, I find the HR20 to be at least as reliable, perhaps a bit more so. In fact, the more I've been using my HR20, the more I've been growing to like it.



#35 OFFLINE   dvrblogger

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Posted 12 July 2007 - 05:32 AM

I was doing some filing tonight and came across my receipts for the three HR-
12. Connecting the HR-20 to a network where UPnP is active will cause the HR-20 to lockup and cease operation. It will also prevent it from rebooting properly until the network cable is removed. This isn't a huge problem now because I don't need/want to play music or display pictures through the HR-20, but it will be if they require the network connection for their Video on Demand services.


What other upnp devices do you have ? I have multiple PC and windows home servers,xbox and others and do not have lockup problems.

#36 OFFLINE   bonscott87

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Posted 12 July 2007 - 07:12 AM

Of course, it doesn't help matters that there are OTA stations missing from the guide (which means I can't get them), mis-mapped stations and wrong guide info for OTA as well.



Hasan, I've read elsewhere about this. A couple people were missing some digital locals. They found out the missing stations weren't showing up on Zap2It. They contacted the stations to find out they weren't submitting guide data to Tribune. The stations started submitting guide data, they showed up on Zap2It and the next day they appeared on the HR20 and could tune to them.

Now I have no idea if this works all the time but it seems to be the crux of the OTA issues. If Tribune isn't tracking the station then the HR20's don't know anything about them. So make sure the stations are submitting guide data to Tribune and properly identify their frequency.

#37 OFFLINE   Fish Man

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Posted 12 July 2007 - 07:19 AM

Fish Man,
There is a way to see the problem. Just not where you think. Go into Setup and Satellite and then when you get to Signal Strength go to Signal Meters. I think this is the only place where the HR-20 actually shows you the readings on BOTH tuners at the same time.
I just check that every so often to correct the issue. It's part of the HR-20 babysitting plan.


When I do that it shows everything being just fine.

Both tuners show good signal.

Perhaps I was not clear enough about this in my post.

The "smoking gun" evidence that the software in the HR20 has entered the mode where it's going to "ignore" one of its (perfectly functioning) tuners and refuse to record 2 things at once is in the info screen, where one of the tuner's descriptions doesn't have the word "record" at the end.

That's been my experience anyway.

So my babysitting step is periodically checking the info screen. :)

#38 OFFLINE   veryoldschool

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Posted 12 July 2007 - 07:29 AM

So my babysitting step is periodically checking the info screen. :)

Don't babysitters get paid?
If I had to babysit my HR-20, I wouldn't.
If you have a tuner that keeps dropping off line, I'd go through the steps to troubleshoot it down to where the problem came from and replace the bad component.
These are to be enjoyed & not babysat. IMO
If you want help with this RM me.
My HR-20s babysit me & not the other way around.
A.K.A VOS

#39 OFFLINE   Fish Man

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Posted 12 July 2007 - 07:59 AM

Don't babysitters get paid?
If I had to babysit my HR-20, I wouldn't.
If you have a tuner that keeps dropping off line, I'd go through the steps to troubleshoot it down to where the problem came from and replace the bad component.
These are to be enjoyed & not babysat. IMO
If you want help with this RM me.
My HR-20s babysit me & not the other way around.


It doesn't "drop offline".

As the OP said, it get's excellent signal strengths, the software just occasionally (once every three weeks or so) decides it isn't going to make scheduled recordings from one of the 2 tuners (at random), precluding recording two things at once.

Even in this mode, you can watch live from that tuner, and you can see that both tuners have excellent signal strengths on all 5 sats.

This is a 0x168 bug that several people have now noticed. (It does seem to have been introduced in 0x168 or one of the CE releases leading up to 0x168.)

It's not terribly severe and frankly the DirecTiVo's (HR10, R10) bogus "someone in your household modified the season pass" recording failures have caused me to miss way more recordings than this minor HR20 glitch.

I design satellite uplink transmitters by profession. My wiring quality, I dare say, is in the 99 percentile.

Thanks, but no thanks on the troubleshooting help. This is clearly a firmware bug, but a minor one, so I'm by no means in a panic about it. I'm confident it will be shaken out in a future release.

#40 OFFLINE   Ken S

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Posted 12 July 2007 - 08:19 AM

Don't babysitters get paid?
If I had to babysit my HR-20, I wouldn't.
If you have a tuner that keeps dropping off line, I'd go through the steps to troubleshoot it down to where the problem came from and replace the bad component.
These are to be enjoyed & not babysat. IMO
If you want help with this RM me.
My HR-20s babysit me & not the other way around.


VOS,

I've gone through the entire troubleshooting routine on this one. Not only changing cables, but changing multiswitches. I also think it's one of those issues that happens a lot more than it is reported because it's only going to be seen on certain occasions and then only if the person is recording two shows at the same time.
I'd live with this issue if DirecTV would fix some of the other bugs I've noted.




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