Jump to content


Welcome to DBSTalk


Sign In 

Create Account
Welcome to DBSTalk. Our community covers all aspects of video delivery solutions including: Direct Broadcast Satellite (DBS), Cable Television, and Internet Protocol Television (IPTV). We also have forums to discuss popular television programs, home theater equipment, and internet streaming service providers. Members of our community include experts who can help you solve technical problems, industry professionals, company representatives, and novices who are here to learn.

Like most online communities you must register to view or post in our community. Sign-up is a free and simple process that requires minimal information. Be a part of our community by signing in or creating an account. The Digital Bit Stream starts here!
  • Reply to existing topics or start a discussion of your own
  • Subscribe to topics and forums and get email updates
  • Send private personal messages (PM) to other forum members
  • Customize your profile page and make new friends
 
Guest Message by DevFuse

Photo
- - - - -

Native on vs native off


  • This topic is locked This topic is locked
31 replies to this topic

#1 OFFLINE   bpob

bpob

    Cool Member

  • Registered
  • 16 posts
Joined: Jul 12, 2007

Posted 12 July 2007 - 07:00 PM

Have a Panasonic plasma and want to know the best use of the "native" feature. I believe my tv is 1366x768 so does that mean I can view 1080i or 720p or both? Also what settings are optional for viewing SD content? Should I use the stretch feature from the tv or HR20? What resolutions should be checked?

...Ads Help To Support This SIte...

#2 OFFLINE   davring

davring

    Hall Of Fame

  • DBSTalk Club
  • 6,378 posts
Joined: Jan 13, 2007

Posted 12 July 2007 - 07:10 PM

You have a Higher end TV with good circuitry, I would use "native on" and let the TV do what ever converting is necessary. I would check 480p and 720p. There would be no benefit to check 1080i as your set would have to down convert to 720p. If you use the HR20's stretch you will still be able to veiw the guide, menus, etc which would be off the screen if you let you set stretch it. Try them both, use what YOU like best.
HR20-700(2.0TB)>Sony XBR-55HX929
HR20-700>Sony KDL40V2500
OTA RS outdoor ant
Hardwire networked to Cysco Router 6.0 AT&T DSL
MRV enabled
R15-500>Samsung LNT2342H
DirecTV customer since 1997

#3 OFFLINE   HDTVsportsfan

HDTVsportsfan

    Hall Of Fame

  • Registered
  • 5,746 posts
Joined: Nov 29, 2005

Posted 12 July 2007 - 07:11 PM

Welcome Aboard.

The native resolution for your set is 720P. It will display 480i, 480P, 720P, and 1080i. You can check all four if you wish.
DBSTalk Chat Room Mod (I reserve the right to be wrong.)

AT9 to SWM16
LR: HR24-100 to Panasonic 50" w/ Sony HTIB/FR: HR20-700 to Samsung LN55B640
Office: HR34-700 to Panasonic 50" w/ HD-A2
Office: H21-200 to 36" SD TV/BR: HR21-200 to Samsung 32" LCD
My full setup in Visio: http://www.dbstalk.c...8&postcount=105

#4 OFFLINE   veryoldschool

veryoldschool

    Lifetime Achiever

  • Moderators
  • 41,621 posts
Joined: Dec 09, 2006

Posted 12 July 2007 - 07:16 PM

Have a Panasonic plasma and want to know the best use of the "native" feature. I believe my tv is 1366x768 so does that mean I can view 1080i or 720p or both? Also what settings are optional for viewing SD content? Should I use the stretch feature from the tv or HR20? What resolutions should be checked?

:welcome_s to the forum.
What you're asking about really comes down to what you as the viewer like.

Native "on" will send the channels to the TV in the same resolution that they were broadcast.
Now your TV has a scaler in it too, so it will adjust what it gets to fit your TV display.
Some people like the way their TV does the scaling [better] and some don't see any difference. Using native can cause channel changing to take longer.

Since your TV is 1366 x 768, you might find having the HR-20 set to 720p and leave native off will be the best for you.

Now native is really just resolution and not "format". Now in HD the HR-20 doesn't change format, but [I use native so mine is different] but if it's an SD channel it might change the format to fill the screen. I HATE stretch as it distorts the image. You might not mind it as much as since you don't want to burn-in your Plasma screen, should use something to fill the screen.
Well this is the first pass. Play with the buttons & settings and ask some more questions.
A.K.A VOS

#5 OFFLINE   boltjames

boltjames

    Icon

  • Registered
  • 707 posts
Joined: Sep 03, 2006

Posted 12 July 2007 - 07:42 PM

As someone who had an HR10 HD DVR that lacked the native feature, I find it is, without question, the #1 benefit to the HR20.

IMHO we spend too much time complaining about missing buffers and menu colors and not enough time praising the native mode function that D* has bestowed upon us.

It's that good.

BJ

Posted Image
Sony 40XBR9 LCD 1080p | Sony 46XBR2 LCD 1080p | Sony 40V2500 LCD 1080p| HR20's | HR21's | D* Bring Back FTSTB! No 2 Hour Timeouts!

#6 OFFLINE   hilmar2k

hilmar2k

    Hall Of Fame

  • Registered
  • 5,251 posts
Joined: Mar 18, 2007

Posted 12 July 2007 - 08:32 PM

Since your TV is 1366 x 768, you might find having the HR-20 set to 720p and leave native off will be the best for you.


I disagree. If he turns native off and selects only 720p, then 1080i material will be scaled twice, once to 720p by the HR20, and another to 768p by the TV. With native on, the scaling will only be done once, by the TV. As long as the TV has a good scaler (which I am sure the Panny plasma does) then I think native on and all resolutions checked is the way to go.

#7 OFFLINE   veryoldschool

veryoldschool

    Lifetime Achiever

  • Moderators
  • 41,621 posts
Joined: Dec 09, 2006

Posted 12 July 2007 - 08:44 PM

I disagree. If he turns native off and selects only 720p, then 1080i material will be scaled twice, once to 720p by the HR20, and another to 768p by the TV. With native on, the scaling will only be done once, by the TV. As long as the TV has a good scaler (which I am sure the Panny plasma does) then I think native on and all resolutions checked is the way to go.

there will be thoses on both sides....always on this subject.

Bottom line: try all the setting & pick what you like...period.

See my sig line
A.K.A VOS

#8 OFFLINE   bpob

bpob

    Cool Member

  • Topic Starter
  • Registered
  • 16 posts
Joined: Jul 12, 2007

Posted 12 July 2007 - 08:59 PM

I'd like to thank all of you for welcoming a new member. All of the posts were very informative. I will play around and find out what works best.

#9 OFFLINE   shendley

shendley

    Hall Of Fame

  • Registered
  • 1,703 posts
Joined: Nov 27, 2005

Posted 12 July 2007 - 09:05 PM

I disagree. If he turns native off and selects only 720p, then 1080i material will be scaled twice, once to 720p by the HR20, and another to 768p by the TV. With native on, the scaling will only be done once, by the TV. As long as the TV has a good scaler (which I am sure the Panny plasma does) then I think native on and all resolutions checked is the way to go.


I hadn't thought to explain it like that, but my family definitely noticed a slight decline in picture quality on our 768p Panny when we set the HR20 to 720p output and watched a 1080i broadcast. It definitely looked better with the 20 outputting native 1080i. I also like to leave native on as my Panny 'remembers' to format all SD broadcasts in the Just mode - my favorite stretch mode for viewing SD. But, aside from this last post, it's all in the eye of the beholder. As others have said, play around with native off and on and see if you notice a difference.

AU9, SWM8
Panasonic TH-58PX60U, HDMI to HR44-100, Native, DD, Optical Audio to Receiver, Harmony One, Networked with Ethernet Cable, 3.41/.71 Mbps DSL.
Panasonic TH-42PD50U, Component to HR 24-100, Antec MX-1 w. WD10EVDS ESata, Native, DD, DTV Remote.
Panasonic TC-L32X2, HDMI to C41-100, DTV Remote.
Whole Home.


#10 OFFLINE   cygnusloop

cygnusloop

    Hall Of Fame

  • Registered
  • 2,279 posts
Joined: Jan 26, 2007

Posted 12 July 2007 - 09:05 PM

So, you can clearly see that there is lots of opinions on this matter. As davering said, try a lot of different setting, and in the end do what works best for you. That being said, here is how I would set it up in your situation.

Native = ON, 480p, 720p selected.
Format set to FORMAT=STRETCH.

Here's how it would work:

When your watching HD, 720p would be sent native, and scaled by your TV to 768. Should look great. When your watching a 1080i channel, it would be de-interlaced by the HR20, scaled to 720p, and sent to your TV to be displayed 1366x768. (I think there are advantages to allowing the HR20 to do the de-interlace, so back off, BJ!;) ) It should also look great. (The format setting does nothing with an HD signal)

When watching SD, its a little more complicated. With 480p selected, 480i (which is virtually all SD programming) will be de-interlaced by the HR20 to 480p. With format set to stretch, the 640x480 SD stream will be sent to your TV with no changes, like cropping, or the addition of pillar bars.

At this point, it's up to you and your TV how to display the SD program. Personally I like my TV generated pillar bars for 4:3, but some prefer the various stretch modes that their TV provides.

Here's the great part, your TV will remember what setting it was using per resolution. What this works out to, is that when it sees a 480 stream, it will set itself to the last format setting that was used for SD. When you change to an HD channel, your TV will default back to its "full" or 16:9 setting. No fuss, no muss. As VOS would say, no remote control "tap dance". That is, of course, until you want to zoom in to letterboxed SD. Oh well, you can't have everything.:)

#11 OFFLINE   BuffaloDenny

BuffaloDenny

    Icon

  • Registered
  • 689 posts
Joined: Mar 18, 2007

Posted 12 July 2007 - 09:15 PM

So, you can clearly see that there is lots of opinions on this matter. As davering said, try a lot of different setting, and in the end do what works best for you. That being said, here is how I would set it up in your situation.

Native = ON, 480p, 720p selected.
Format set to FORMAT=STRETCH.


Can I ask for the same opinion on my Mitsubuishi DLP? WD-62725. I think it's native is 720p.

#12 OFFLINE   shendley

shendley

    Hall Of Fame

  • Registered
  • 1,703 posts
Joined: Nov 27, 2005

Posted 12 July 2007 - 09:19 PM

Just to add one more thing: though most people set the SD output of the 20 to 480p, I keep mine set at 480i. It's hardly noticable - nobody else in my family does - but I think SD looks just a tad better that way.

And, as others have stressed, keep the 20's format at stretch.

AU9, SWM8
Panasonic TH-58PX60U, HDMI to HR44-100, Native, DD, Optical Audio to Receiver, Harmony One, Networked with Ethernet Cable, 3.41/.71 Mbps DSL.
Panasonic TH-42PD50U, Component to HR 24-100, Antec MX-1 w. WD10EVDS ESata, Native, DD, DTV Remote.
Panasonic TC-L32X2, HDMI to C41-100, DTV Remote.
Whole Home.


#13 OFFLINE   cygnusloop

cygnusloop

    Hall Of Fame

  • Registered
  • 2,279 posts
Joined: Jan 26, 2007

Posted 12 July 2007 - 09:31 PM

Can I ask for the same opinion on my Mitsubuishi DLP? WD-62725. I think it's native is 720p.


With a 720p display, the answer is, IMHO, even more straightforward. The same set up as above, but without the bit about the TV rescaling 720p to 1366x768. It's already 1280x720.

If you have a 1080i/p display, then, 480p, 720p, and 1080i selected. (I've been back and forth on whether or not to include the 720p for a 1080p display, it's so close that it probably comes down to whether or not you care to wait for the HR20 to change resolutions.)

#14 OFFLINE   drx792

drx792

    Icon

  • Registered
  • 773 posts
Joined: Feb 27, 2007

Posted 12 July 2007 - 09:49 PM

Ok, i like Native on my 1080p DLP. But on my Sammy 32" LCD OH god does 480p look horrible......i cant even bare to look at it. So i keep it on 720p pillar, stretch just makes it way too distorted for me to handle.

The TV's Rezz is 1366x768. BUT one thing, it is a very crappy TV. It was way overpriced too cause less than a year later the Sharp Aquos 1080p 32" 10,000:1 contrast LCD came out and it WAS cheaper than this TV. The scaler chip is really bad too...and the TV hums when its internal speakers are on(thankfully they are not)

I'm thinkin of upgrading.but i do wanna wait for SED TV's ...maybe the legal troubles with it will end soon.

#15 OFFLINE   cygnusloop

cygnusloop

    Hall Of Fame

  • Registered
  • 2,279 posts
Joined: Jan 26, 2007

Posted 12 July 2007 - 09:56 PM

Ok, i like Native on my 1080p DLP. But on my Sammy 32" LCD OH god does 480p look horrible......i cant even bare to look at it. So i keep it on 720p pillar, stretch just makes it way too distorted for me to handle.

The TV's Rezz is 1366x768. BUT one thing, it is a very crappy TV. It was way overpriced too cause less than a year later the Sharp Aquos 1080p 32" 10,000:1 contrast LCD came out and it WAS cheaper than this TV. The scaler chip is really bad too...and the TV hums when its internal speakers are on(thankfully they are not)

I'm thinkin of upgrading.but i do wanna wait for SED TV's ...maybe the legal troubles with it will end soon.


Just a point of clarification, drx792, when you say that SD looks distorted on your 32" do you mean that from an aspect ratio standpoint, or a resolution standpoint?

Let's be clear. I HATE stretched SD. Nevertheless, My HR20 is always set to stretch. I use my TV to supply the pillarbars for the SD viewing environment.

Why do prefer my TV's pillars? Here's a rant I posted a long time ago, perhaps it's time to roll it out again. Apologies to those that have read it before:

[rant mode]
==========
Why I prefer my TV's pillarbars. A short Rant in two parts.

Part One.
I prefer my TV's pillarbars because they have some overscan. The HR20's pillarbars just append black (or grey) bars to the 640x480 frame. With the HR20's bars, you see all the "junk" in the "gutters" of the 4:3 frame. Sometimes this junk is not that bad, but sometimes it's a bright blue line. On some British programs, it's just hideous black and white checkerboard looking stuff. My TV's pillarbars hide all this "junk".

Part Two.
I prefer my TV's pillarbars because they are really, really black. I have a DLP TV. So I don't have burn in(out) concerns, but those equally apply. The DLP generated edges are razor sharp, and the bars are just dead, black pixels. IMO, the DLP creates a superior 4:3 frame for viewing 4:3 content when compared to the pillarbox mode of the HR20.

============
[/rant mode]

#16 OFFLINE   davring

davring

    Hall Of Fame

  • DBSTalk Club
  • 6,378 posts
Joined: Jan 13, 2007

Posted 12 July 2007 - 09:58 PM

Just to add one more thing: though most people set the SD output of the 20 to 480p, I keep mine set at 480i. It's hardly noticable - nobody else in my family does - but I think SD looks just a tad better that way.

And, as others have stressed, keep the 20's format at stretch.




One other advantage for choosing 480i and 480p. If you select 480i the format function of the HR20 will work on SD programs. I like to use crop (when it doesn't "go vertically ballistic) on many of the shows which are broadcast 4:3 letterbox. That format fills the screen with very little distortion. YMMV
HR20-700(2.0TB)>Sony XBR-55HX929
HR20-700>Sony KDL40V2500
OTA RS outdoor ant
Hardwire networked to Cysco Router 6.0 AT&T DSL
MRV enabled
R15-500>Samsung LNT2342H
DirecTV customer since 1997

#17 OFFLINE   cygnusloop

cygnusloop

    Hall Of Fame

  • Registered
  • 2,279 posts
Joined: Jan 26, 2007

Posted 12 July 2007 - 09:59 PM

One other advantage for choosing 480i and 480p. If you select 480i the format function of the HR20 will work on SD programs. I like to use crop (when it doesn't "go vertically ballistic) on many of the shows which are broadcast 4:3 letterbox. That format fills the screen with very little distortion. YMMV


Fair point. However, I accomplish the same thing by using the "Zoom 1" mode on my Samsung DLP.

#18 OFFLINE   davring

davring

    Hall Of Fame

  • DBSTalk Club
  • 6,378 posts
Joined: Jan 13, 2007

Posted 12 July 2007 - 10:02 PM

One less remote...:) And of course the WAF
HR20-700(2.0TB)>Sony XBR-55HX929
HR20-700>Sony KDL40V2500
OTA RS outdoor ant
Hardwire networked to Cysco Router 6.0 AT&T DSL
MRV enabled
R15-500>Samsung LNT2342H
DirecTV customer since 1997

#19 OFFLINE   cygnusloop

cygnusloop

    Hall Of Fame

  • Registered
  • 2,279 posts
Joined: Jan 26, 2007

Posted 12 July 2007 - 10:11 PM

One less remote...:) And of course the WAF


Touche... but I'll see that WAF and raise you one Harmony 880.:grin:

Many, many ways to accomplish the same thing with these electronic contraptions that run our lives, no?;)

#20 OFFLINE   veryoldschool

veryoldschool

    Lifetime Achiever

  • Moderators
  • 41,621 posts
Joined: Dec 09, 2006

Posted 12 July 2007 - 10:35 PM

Touche... but I'll see that WAF and raise you one Harmony 880.:grin:

Many, many ways to accomplish the same thing with these electronic contraptions that run our lives, no?;)

I think we need to start a new thread about this. Think we can figure it out in say...200 posts? :lol:
A.K.A VOS




spam firewall