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SD/HD on 4:3


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17 replies to this topic

#1 OFFLINE   ptulula

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Posted 14 July 2007 - 10:24 AM

I currently have a dishplayer 7100 and a 6000 which I'm planning to replace with a vip622 but I have a question on outputs and formats.

My TV (VS-507805) is a 4:3. When on the HD input, the TV automatically sets itself in 16:9 mode with bars at top and bottom. This is fine for HD which is 16:9 but for non-HD programs, I end up with bars on all side and a small picture centered in the middle of the screen. I would like to be able to get the non-HD channels to fill the whole screen.

Here is what I was planning to do. I'll connect the TV1 component output to my HD component input and the TV1 S-video or RCA output to another TV input. I use a prontopro remote so I will program macros that switch input when changing channel. For HD channel, it will use the HD input and for SD channels it will switch to the other input. I'll also make a SD/HD button to switch manually when necessary. TV2 would be connected to another small non-HD TV in another room.

Dish rep told me that only one of the outputs is active at a time so my solution would not work but I read on this forum that all outputs are hot all the time (and tend to believe the forum more than dish rep...).

Do you see any issue with this solution (any squeezed image problem or things like that)?
Or is there a simpler solution that I'm not seeing?

Thanks

Philippe

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#2 OFFLINE   Stewart Vernon

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Posted 14 July 2007 - 11:25 AM

Dish rep told me that only one of the outputs is active at a time so my solution would not work but I read on this forum that all outputs are hot all the time (and tend to believe the forum more than dish rep...).



I can't say what it will look like, since I don't have my ViP622 connected to a 4:3 TV... but definately all of the outputs on the ViP622 are active all the time. I also have an old 6000, and as you probably already know this was NOT true for that model receiver. You had to switch into SD mode to get the S-video/component outputs active.

But for the ViP622 all of the outputs are active simultaneously so there should be no problem from that standpoint.

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#3 OFFLINE   Ron Barry

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Posted 14 July 2007 - 11:43 AM

Is your TV a Sony perhaps. I Have a Sony 4x3 TV. What I do output at 480P 4x3. This tends to cover TV with the menus and gives me the best compromise. I know it is not 1080i but it does provide the best compromise. I suggest doing a search on the forums for 4x3 in the title and you should get some good thread about this issue.
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#4 OFFLINE   rice0209

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Posted 14 July 2007 - 07:39 PM

Is your TV a Sony perhaps. I Have a Sony 4x3 TV. What I do output at 480P 4x3. This tends to cover TV with the menus and gives me the best compromise. I know it is not 1080i but it does provide the best compromise. I suggest doing a search on the forums for 4x3 in the title and you should get some good thread about this issue.


My sister has a sony high def 4:3 tv as well and I have not found a work around for this other than doing as the original poster said and running both component and svideo cables for high def and standard def respectively.

The vertical compression feature on the sony's is a great idea, but the only options in the menu are "on" and "auto." There is no "off" choice!!! This problem would be easy solved but instead, she has to do the switching back and forth between tv inputs for HD and SD.

I feel your guy's pain as i messed around with her tv and 622 (even 942 before that) for hours with no luck.

#5 OFFLINE   Ron Barry

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Posted 14 July 2007 - 07:44 PM

Rice... Have your sister try 480p and 4x3. Depending on the TV size and viewing distance you mind find this to the liking. I am hooked via component and I don't do anything with the svideo. Yes you are not getting 720p or 1080i but I find the picture in my conditions pretty good.

I have been meaning to do a little research and see if I can somehow work around this through the service menu but I have not had the time.
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#6 OFFLINE   Rovingbar

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Posted 14 July 2007 - 10:31 PM

We have our old 942 on a ~30" SD 4x3 TV. It is set to 480i and 4x3. It is obviously not HD, but it looks pretty good. No problems with menus.

#7 OFFLINE   ptulula

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Posted 14 July 2007 - 10:38 PM

Is your TV a Sony perhaps. I Have a Sony 4x3 TV. What I do output at 480P 4x3. This tends to cover TV with the menus and gives me the best compromise. I know it is not 1080i but it does provide the best compromise. I suggest doing a search on the forums for 4x3 in the title and you should get some good thread about this issue.


No, my TV is a Mitsubishi but it looks like it suffers from the same limitations as the Sonys.
The 480p solution may be a good compromise but for HD programming I still want to be able to switch it quickly to 1080i to get full HD quality. Can that be done through a remote key or does it require going through some menus?

I also read a few more posts and now wonder if my initial solution would even work. Someone said that all TV1 outputs have the same format. What I think they meant is that if I'm outputing in 16:9, even the s-video will be 16:9 and I'll have the postage stamp in the middle for SD anyway.
Is that correct?

What about using TV2? Can I hook TV1 to my component HD input (16:9) and TV2 to my other input for SD (in 4:3)? Is the TV2 remote just UHF or also IR?

#8 OFFLINE   Ron Barry

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Posted 14 July 2007 - 11:14 PM

Switching resolutions requires menu actions. There is no discrete codes. I know you want to get the full 1080i output, but I would try both and see if you can see any visible difference before jumping through Remote control hoops.

As for the 2nd part of your question. Never tried it so I will leave it to someone that has. A lot of people use svideo for DVDR recording so I am sure people have experience with that configuration and if there are any issues on getting the SD content to look correct in that format.
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#9 OFFLINE   Bill R

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Posted 15 July 2007 - 08:02 AM

A lot of people use svideo for DVDR recording so I am sure people have experience with that configuration and if there are any issues on getting the SD content to look correct in that format.


I have my s-video output connected to a DVD recorder and all you have to do to get SD content to look correct is to press the format button to put the screen in stretch mode. The DVDs look correct when played back on any 4:3 screen.
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#10 OFFLINE   Jim5506

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Posted 15 July 2007 - 03:50 PM

Can you set it for 1080i and use the format button to zoom when your HD channel is showing SD. I requires a couple of button pushes, but it will work.
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#11 OFFLINE   SaltiDawg

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Posted 15 July 2007 - 04:10 PM

...
My TV (VS-507805) is a 4:3. When on the HD input, the TV automatically sets itself in 16:9 mode with bars at top and bottom. This is fine for HD which is 16:9 but for non-HD programs, I end up with bars on all side and a small picture centered in the middle of the screen. I would like to be able to get the non-HD channels to fill the whole screen. ...

Dish rep told me that only one of the outputs is active at a time so my solution would not work but I read on this forum that all outputs are hot all the time (and tend to believe the forum more than dish rep...) ...

Phillipe,

Rep was mistaken. All outputs are simultaneously hot.

Another approach would be to use the "*" Key on your 622's remote (or programmed into your Universal Remote) and switch from "Normal" to either "Stretch" or "Partial Zoom" or "Zoom." This will cause your left and right bars to disappear, but, of course, retaining the upper and lower bars which the TV has placed there.

I don't know if this is an easier way or not...

#12 OFFLINE   ptulula

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Posted 15 July 2007 - 08:17 PM

[QUOTE=SaltiDawg;1007142Another approach would be to use the "*" Key on your 622's remote (or programmed into your Universal Remote) and switch from "Normal" to either "Stretch" or "Partial Zoom" or "Zoom."[/QUOTE]

Do you know if there are discrete IR codes for each state of the * key (normal, zoom,...)?

Also, is the TV2 remote purely UHF or does it also have IR codes? I would need to program TV2 codes in my universal remote but it supports only IR.

#13 OFFLINE   Bill R

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Posted 16 July 2007 - 08:15 AM

Can you set it for 1080i and use the format button to zoom when your HD channel is showing SD?


Yes. My 622 has been set for 1080i since the day that I got it and I never need to change that setting. If you change the format button for SD channels it does not change the format for HD channels but you can alway do that on HD channels if you wish to fill the screen.
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#14 OFFLINE   SaltiDawg

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Posted 16 July 2007 - 09:39 AM

Do you know if there are discrete IR codes for each state of the * key (normal, zoom,...)?

Also, is the TV2 remote purely UHF or does it also have IR codes? I would need to program TV2 codes in my universal remote but it supports only IR.

There are no (known) discretes for the Format key.

Why not set up your 622 in Single mode - you will choose the appropriate format for each individual channel - both SD and HD? When you choose a given channel for viewing it will be seen in the format you last had used for that given channel.

#15 OFFLINE   olguy

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Posted 16 July 2007 - 10:51 AM

I have my 16:9 1080 Toshiba set for 1080 and Natural aspect ratio. I have my 622 set for 1080i and Normal (via the Format button (*)) If a program is 16:9 I get that and if it's 4:3 I get that and never have to touch a thing.

#16 OFFLINE   Mike D-CO5

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Posted 16 July 2007 - 06:49 PM

Funny, I have my toshiba set for the same thing and the only way it works the way you describe is if I have my 622 set for 480p, then the tv will upconvert to 1080i and do the hd thing in wide screen and the sd in natural mode or with vertical bars. When the hdmi port is used the tv says that the pic control is not available.

#17 OFFLINE   CABill

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Posted 16 July 2007 - 08:06 PM

My old low end Sanyo 4:3 behaves like olguy's Tosh. If I switch to a SD channel, it is automatically full screen without hitting anything and the TV "info" for the input actaully calls it 480i (whether it is coming via component or HDMI). If I switch to a real 1080i source (sat or OTA digital), I get bars top and bottom as you would with widescreen on a 4:3 set.

The ONLY time I need to do anything is when there is 4:3 material on a 720p/1080i broadcast. The ESPN side pillars can be made to disapper with the top and bottom bars with Zoom. I never change the receiver from 1080i - 480i content is just automatically Full Screen.

#18 OFFLINE   PhantomOG

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Posted 17 July 2007 - 08:50 AM

If you want HD in HD, set the box to 1080i, and connect both the S-Video and Component cables as you have described. It will work just fine. Obviously the S-video cable will not be 1080i, but that connection is for the SD channels anyways. As you said, you will want to program a button on your remote to quickly change between the Component input and S-video input on your TV. Unfortunately, I don't think there really is an elegant way to fix this problem until Dish lets us set the *resolution* of HD and SD channels independently.

The Zoom button will remember the setting for HD and SD channels independently. You might have to cycle through on each type of source the first time to get it right, but after that you shouldn't need to use that key anymore.

With all that, you HD channels should be in 1080i HD 16x9, and you SD will be 480i 4:3 (full screen) over the S-video connection.




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