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Wiring OTA to DirecTV Setup


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18 replies to this topic

#1 OFFLINE   Tomar

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Posted 15 July 2007 - 03:40 PM

Hey,

Can anyone tell me to proper way to connect my OTA antenna to my Directv system without running a separate line? I have an HR10 and HR20, a 3x4 multi-switch, (2) dual port power passing diplexers, a preamp and power module for the ota antenna. If this info is posted elsewhere, please forgive me, but I have tried searching to no avail.

Thanks

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#2 OFFLINE   Draconis

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Posted 15 July 2007 - 03:55 PM

http://www.dbstalk.c...ead.php?t=92104

You may want to look at this thread.

Nutshell; you need to run a dedicated (separate) line. The Diplexer worked with the HR10-250 but will not work with the HR20.

If you are using a 3x4 multiswitch you have the wrong one. You will need the Zinwell WB68 and a 5 LNB dish if you want to use the new HD programming that is coming.

#3 OFFLINE   gulfwarvet

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Posted 15 July 2007 - 06:46 PM

here's another thread for more "insight" for what you may be asking for:

http://www.dbstalk.c...ight=moving BBc

it's not that the HR20 can't be diplexed at all, it can be.
the reason for the problem that comes with diplexing is with the new sat launch of D10 is going to use Ka band frequencies for the New HD mpeg 4. the little grey boxes that should have came with the Hr20 is called BBCs, which allows the Hr20 to see the new HD channels after September 1st.

D* is recomdeming these be place before then. but you will be required to have a new muiltiswitch (WB68) and the new 5LNB Slimline dish to recieve these new channels.

also as a extra hope:
D* is working hard with maybe a solution to your question called the SWM (signal wire muilt-switch). this already has the BBC built into it, which would allow diplexing more easily. there has been 5 rounds of testing this with some very good results.
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#4 OFFLINE   Tomar

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Posted 15 July 2007 - 07:25 PM

Hey Guys,

Thanks for the responses. I am aware of the B-band converter and the new satellite that was launched, but I do not subscribe to the Directv's HD package. I am getting all my HD OTA. I am still holding out for the SWM. With that said, how do I configure my current setup correctly without running a separate line?

Tomar

#5 OFFLINE   gulfwarvet

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Posted 15 July 2007 - 07:33 PM

so your saying your keeping the 3x4 switch and dish the way it is then, with No HD package? only HD you get is OTA?

if that's what i undertand is correct?
you can replace you old muiltiswitch with this (Terk 5x8 Multiswitch for 8 Satellite TV Receivers
Model: BMS-58)
it has a port for OTA built into the muilti-switch, but you would still need diplexers at the recievers.
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#6 OFFLINE   Tomar

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Posted 15 July 2007 - 08:03 PM

so your saying your keeping the 3x4 switch and dish the way it is then, with No HD package? only HD you get is OTA?

if that's what i undertand is correct?
you can replace you old muiltiswitch with this (Terk 5x8 Multiswitch for 8 Satellite TV Receivers
Model: BMS-58)
it has a port for OTA built into the muilti-switch, but you would still need diplexers at the recievers.


Yes, you are correct. For the time being, I am going to stick with my current setup until the SWM becomes available then I will upgrade the dish, HD package, etc.

I am glad that you brought up the multiswitch. Mine also has a antenna input, but when I tried it and used a diplexer at the receiver, I barely received any OTA HD channels. I thought that the multiswitch was dividing the power 4 ways which is why I stopped using this configuration. Is this correct?

My setup is as follows:

Outside the House
Antenna > preamp > Diplexer #1 > Feed #1
Dish > Diplexer #1 > Feed #1

Inside the House
Feed #1 > Diplexer #2 > Ant power module > HR10 Ant in
Feed #1 > Diplexer #2 > 3x4 Multiswitch > Satellite Receivers

I purposely omitted the second feed coming from the dish because it diplexed in the same manner with my cable internet.

I was told that this setup is not correct and that I should remove the preamp and power module. When I did that, the entire system went down. I could not receive a signal from the sat on any receiver in my house. After a painful week without dvr service :( , I reinstalled the preamp and power module and everything worked. I have yet to explain what happened. Now I have 2 dvrs and I would like to know if my configuration is correct and how I can accommodate a second HD dvr?

Thanks

#7 OFFLINE   veryoldschool

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Posted 15 July 2007 - 08:23 PM

More info please,
Since removing the OTA pre-amp and power inserter should have ZERO effect on your SAT signals.
A.K.A VOS

#8 OFFLINE   gulfwarvet

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Posted 15 July 2007 - 08:42 PM

your pre-amp power module should be place before the first diplexer (close to the muilti-switch). then feed off it to the diplexer

like this:
antenna>pre-amp> power inserter>diplexer on in feed 1>>>>>>diplexer on feed 1 out to reciever

NOTE** this is only for power and amp for OTA***
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#9 OFFLINE   Tomar

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Posted 16 July 2007 - 07:34 PM

More info please,
Since removing the OTA pre-amp and power inserter should have ZERO effect on your SAT signals.

I agree with you 100% but I don't understand what went wrong when I disconnected the preamp and power module. I suspect that it had something to do with the diplexers I am using. Both diplexer are power passing on both ports. So what happens when power (in this case the preamp/power module) is removed on one of the ports? I remember switching the dual port power passing diplexer with a single port power passing diplexer and everything worked. I just don't know enough about these devices and how they work together. If you tell me what kind info you need, I will provide it.

your pre-amp power module should be place before the first diplexer (close to the muilti-switch). then feed off it to the diplexer

like this:
antenna>pre-amp> power inserter>diplexer on in feed 1>>>>>>diplexer on feed 1 out to reciever

NOTE** this is only for power and amp for OTA***

Gulfwarvet - I don't think I can do what you suggest because I have a CM 7777 preamp and I believe the power module is for indoors only. I noticed in your signature that you have a SWM. How's that working for you?

#10 OFFLINE   veryoldschool

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Posted 16 July 2007 - 07:41 PM

Now I know you can't have the OTA power inserter on one end of the diplexed cable and the OTA pre-amp on the other end.
You can diplex the output of the OTA power inserter in to the SAT feed, but the DC power to the pre-amp is either: going to screw up the dish multi-switch or the LNB voltage is going to over drive your pre-amp.
Too many DC voltages on a common line. NO NO !!

So back to the SAT feeds needing the power passing ports on the diplexers and the OTA power inserter up stream of the diplexers.

SWM will be the same way. I have a 8 channel SWM and it will replace the diplexer as the OTA has a port for it, BUT no DC on that line.
A.K.A VOS

#11 OFFLINE   gulfwarvet

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Posted 16 July 2007 - 08:31 PM

[/quote] Gulfwarvet - I don't think I can do what you suggest because I have a CM 7777 preamp and I believe the power module is for indoors only. I noticed in your signature that you have a SWM. How's that working for you?[/QUOTE]

no, no, i wasn't meaning to litterally place the power module outside. just thats the start point coming off your antenna. maybe i need more info like VOS is requesting to help better your needs.

But...from power module for antenna:
inside power inserter TV out> to ota port on your "current" muilti-switch>>>>>>>diplexers at recievers.

far as the SWM-5 question:
yes it's working great, really help get rid of alot of coax's. no issue's to report at the moment
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#12 OFFLINE   Tomar

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Posted 17 July 2007 - 07:41 PM

Now I know you can't have the OTA power inserter on one end of the diplexed cable and the OTA pre-amp on the other end.
You can diplex the output of the OTA power inserter in to the SAT feed, but the DC power to the pre-amp is either: going to screw up the dish multi-switch or the LNB voltage is going to over drive your pre-amp.
Too many DC voltages on a common line. NO NO !!

So back to the SAT feeds needing the power passing ports on the diplexers and the OTA power inserter up stream of the diplexers.

SWM will be the same way. I have a 8 channel SWM and it will replace the diplexer as the OTA has a port for it, BUT no DC on that line.


Unfortunately, I have the exact setup you describe with the OTA power at one end of the diplexed cable and the preamp at the other. You are saying that this will cause equipment damage? :eek2: That ain't good. I guess I have been lucky to get away with it for so long.

As I understand, the sat receiver produces either a 13 VDC or 18 VDC signal which is why I need a power passing port on the sat side. Does the preamp produce the DC voltage on the ota side or the power module? In either case, I have voltages produced by 2 different sources on the same line and that is a no no.

So I assume that your SWM is outside and you are using a port designated for antenna. You have 2 lines coming into your house from the SWM, each containing the ota signal. Just before your receiver, you diplex the feed into ota and sat?

Gulfwarvet - I don't think I can do what you suggest because I have a CM 7777 preamp and I believe the power module is for indoors only. I noticed in your signature that you have a SWM. How's that working for you?

no, no, i wasn't meaning to litterally place the power module outside. just thats the start point coming off your antenna. maybe i need more info like VOS is requesting to help better your needs.

But...from power module for antenna:
inside power inserter TV out> to ota port on your "current" muilti-switch>>>>>>>diplexers at recievers.

far as the SWM-5 question:
yes it's working great, really help get rid of alot of coax's. no issue's to report at the moment

Ok so let me tell you what I think you are suggesting. Remove the preamp and power module. If I need it, put these two components before both diplexers. Assuming I don't need the preamp/power, diplex the signal from the antenna on the outside combining it with the sat. Diplex again on the inside, separating the ant and sat and feed the ant to the ant input of the multiswitch. Diplex a third time at the receiver to split the signals into sat and ant and feed the receiver.

Do either of you guys have pics of your setup? If they are posted somewhere, just point me to them.

Thanks!

#13 OFFLINE   veryoldschool

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Posted 17 July 2007 - 08:13 PM

When they setup my 5LNB dish, they wanted to diplex my OTA. I said no because the power inserter was inside [two DC voltages on the same line]. Next came the multi-switch addition. [I now have 6 coax feed coming in, argh]. Next came the 8 channel SWM. Since I would need to move the OTA power inserter to before the SWM, I didn't connect it.
Now "if I did" the OTA power inserter would be before the SWM, it's output would go to the OTA input on the SWM. The SWM has two outputs, split those with broadband splitters would give each receiver SAT & OTA if I diplexed out the OTA to the ant. input on the receiver.
The SWM also is powered so it has a power inserter inside too.
IIRC: my pre-amp is powered by 12 VDC. The LNB drive is 13 or 18 VDC. Will the pre-amp handle 18 VDC? I don't want to try.

Now if you can post what you have [model number] and what [or how] you are connecting it all, I might be able to review how it should work for you.
Simply put: the more crap you have in the feed, the more loss there will be. Splitters, diplexers all add to the loss, so it is best to use as little as you need to do the job.
A.K.A VOS

#14 OFFLINE   gulfwarvet

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Posted 17 July 2007 - 09:42 PM

\


Ok so let me tell you what I think you are suggesting. Remove the preamp and power module. If I need it, put these two components before both diplexers. Assuming I don't need the preamp/power, diplex the signal from the antenna on the outside combining it with the sat. Diplex again on the inside, separating the ant and sat and feed the ant to the ant input of the multiswitch. Diplex a third time at the receiver to split the signals into sat and ant and feed the receiver.

Do either of you guys have pics of your setup? If they are posted somewhere, just point me to them.

Thanks!



your pre-amp is mounted at the antenna. right?
which is where it should be.
your power inserter has a antenna port and a TV out port. right?
that is located inside your home.

ok, from that point on the TV out port on the antenna power module. run a coax to your first diplexer, either seperate or in your exsiting 3x4 muitl-switch OTA port. this joins the Sat feed and OTA feed in 1 cable.
then install a diplexer at the receiver(s) this seperates the Sat/OTA again.

your power module for the pre-amp is installed before the first diplexer, before being put into the Sat feeds.
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#15 OFFLINE   joe diamond

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Posted 17 July 2007 - 10:19 PM

Regardless,
I find the CATV cable internet needs it's own line........other rigs seem to draw complaints about interned drops. There are diplexers the power pass on both poles and some with neither pole but somehow CATV internet just needs its' own line and the fewer fittings the better.

Also..I had to make a choice about running a DC coax through a ground block on the way to the antenna / pre amp. Any thoughts? I bypassed the ground block.
\
Joe

#16 OFFLINE   veryoldschool

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Posted 17 July 2007 - 10:31 PM

Regardless,
I find the CATV cable internet needs it's own line........other rigs seem to draw complaints about interned drops. There are diplexers the power pass on both poles and some with neither pole but somehow CATV internet just needs its' own line and the fewer fittings the better.

Also..I had to make a choice about running a DC coax through a ground block on the way to the antenna / pre amp. Any thoughts? I bypassed the ground block.
\
Joe

DC goes through the center conductor and the ground block is for the shield, so no problem [this is the same for the dish and an OTA pre-amp].

BTW: cable internet needs two way RF [with no DC or doesn't care about it]. Download comes in at [on mine] 99 MHz & upload is 20 MHz.
Anything you use needs to be rated for these frequencies and directions too.
A.K.A VOS

#17 OFFLINE   Tomar

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Posted 19 July 2007 - 06:43 PM

Hey Guys

Thanks for indulging me. I finally sat down and created a wiring diagram which should make my setup clearer. I realized that is difficult to describe a wiring diagram with words so I have attached a lo-tech diagram.

your pre-amp is mounted at the antenna. right?
which is where it should be.
your power inserter has a antenna port and a TV out port. right?
that is located inside your home.

ok, from that point on the TV out port on the antenna power module. run a coax to your first diplexer, either seperate or in your exsiting 3x4 muitl-switch OTA port. this joins the Sat feed and OTA feed in 1 cable.
then install a diplexer at the receiver(s) this seperates the Sat/OTA again.

your power module for the pre-amp is installed before the first diplexer, before being put into the Sat feeds.


I can see a point of confusion which is my fault. I should have made it clear that I only have 2 feeds from the outside, into the house. Therefore, I cannot put the power inserter before that first diplexer because that diplexer is outside. The 2 lines that are coming into the house are both diplexed with either ota and sat 1 or internet and sat 2. I think what you are suggesting would require a separate run for the OTA in addition to the 2 feeds.

Now if you can post what you have [model number] and what [or how] you are connecting it all, I might be able to review how it should work for you.


I should have included this diagram from jump so here it is...

Attached Thumbnails

  • directv ota wiring diagram.jpg


#18 OFFLINE   gulfwarvet

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Posted 19 July 2007 - 07:15 PM

Tomar,

i do see what your asking for.

but....regardless the power "inserter" module needs a direct feed back to your antenna's pre-amp.
even using a D* OTA pre-amp antenna. where the box by itself powers the antenna, has it's own dedicated OTA line.
but.. if you made a "vented" box enclosure thats weather tight. the power module "could" be placed outside. like under a porch roof.
another thought would be, has your home ever had cable that is not being used anymore? maybe tie into it somewhere to run a dedicated line back to the pre-amp.
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#19 OFFLINE   veryoldschool

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Posted 19 July 2007 - 07:33 PM

There is no need to use the power inserter of the OTA, since the D* receiver is also supplying DC power.
Either remove it completely [not my recommendation to use it where you are] or move it up stream where is should be.
Since this currently is not the way it should be setup. This is my last input on this system, as it is just plain wrong. I work to make things right, if I can't, then I stop working.
Right is right & wrong isn't. :)
A.K.A VOS




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