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Theory why recordings start late on HR20


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16 replies to this topic

#1 OFFLINE   Indiana627

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Posted 19 July 2007 - 06:36 AM

I have a theory as to why recordings start late on the HR20. I think it has to do with what triggers the unit to start recording. I took some photos last night as my HR20-100 (with current NR software) started to record House Hunters at 7:30 - 8:00PM on HGTV channel 229. The previous show on this channel was If Walls Could Talk from 7:00 - 7:30PM. I tuned to 229 a few minutes early to test my theory. (Sorry for the blurring photos - I had to turn my flash off to avoid glare and that required a longer shutter speed.)

In the first photo (1349), you'll see the time on the status bar is 7:30 in the lower right corner while the time in the info banner is 7:29 in the upper left corner. The show description in the status bar and the info banner is If Walls Could Talk. The only thing curious to me here is that the two times (status bar and info bar) are different. It seems logical that these would be identical. And it seems for any show scheduled from 7-7:30 would never get to a time of 7:30 in the status bar (to me it seems it would only get to 7:29:59).

In the second photo (1350), the status bar has not changed, but now the time in the info banner is 7:30 but the show description in both the status bar and info banner is still If Walls Could Talk even though House Hunters started to air in the background. The HR20 has not yet started to record as evidenced by the record light not being on and the record symbol not being present on the status bar - thus the first few seconds of the show was missed.

In the third photo (1351), the status bar has now changed to the time of 7:30-8:00 and the show description in both the status bar and info banner has changed to House Hunters. The HR20 started to record as evidenced by the record light being on and the record symbol appearing in the status bar.

Based on this, it appears the HR20 starts to record based on when the show description changes to the name of the show scheduled to record (the show description change appears to happen simultaneously in the status bar and info banner). BUT this show description appears to happen a few seconds after the clock in the info banner (upper left corner) changes. And since this clock seems to be dead on as to when the show starts (in my experience), the first few seconds of the show are missed since the show description change lags behind the clock change.

So to fix this problem:
1) the show description change needs to be sped up to occur when the clock changes; OR
2) the record process needs to start based on the clock in the info banner and NOT the show description change.

What do others think?
Mark

"We named the dog Indiana."
Family Room: HR24-100; WD10EVCS 1TB drive in Antec MX-1; connected via HDMI to Denon AVR-2313CI; 5.1 setup with Boston Acoustics A250 fronts, A225C center, A25 surrounds, ASW650 sub; video to Sony 52W4100 via HDMI; hardwired to Linksys WRT54G
Bedroom: HR21-200 with AM21 & Philips PHDTV1 Antenna, HDMI to Dynex 32" TV; hardwired to Linksys WRT54G
(1) Slimline 3 LBN dish (2 lines direct to each HR2x. No multiswitch.)
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#2 OFFLINE   JayB

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Posted 19 July 2007 - 06:49 AM

Nice analysis. Add this to the way the HR20 tends to start playing a few seconds into the recording, and it adds up. Though, I will say, I've gotten into the habit of hitting the rewind button whenever I start a show so that part's not too big a deal. It did, however get me the interesting time on the status bar last night of "0:-1".

#3 OFFLINE   kocuba

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Posted 19 July 2007 - 06:59 AM

Great Work Indy, :)

In thinking about it I too have seen something like this also. Was not in the process of recording or anything, but I have seen the previous show being displayed in the banner while the current show had already started. Never gave it much thought but I guess this could be the beginning of determining what is going on?

#4 OFFLINE   kocuba

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Posted 19 July 2007 - 07:04 AM

I guess the question would be how are the records timed to start? Are they based on the HR20, or for that matter the R15, looking for the series info or are they based on the time that the series is suppose to start. From what it looks like it is going by the series infoand my believe is it should be going by the time.

IMHO
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#5 OFFLINE   Indiana627

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Posted 19 July 2007 - 07:04 AM

With about 2 months before the fall season starts up, I hope that's enough time to figure why the HR20 starts recording late - and more importantly - enough time for D* to fix it.
Mark

"We named the dog Indiana."
Family Room: HR24-100; WD10EVCS 1TB drive in Antec MX-1; connected via HDMI to Denon AVR-2313CI; 5.1 setup with Boston Acoustics A250 fronts, A225C center, A25 surrounds, ASW650 sub; video to Sony 52W4100 via HDMI; hardwired to Linksys WRT54G
Bedroom: HR21-200 with AM21 & Philips PHDTV1 Antenna, HDMI to Dynex 32" TV; hardwired to Linksys WRT54G
(1) Slimline 3 LBN dish (2 lines direct to each HR2x. No multiswitch.)
D* since January 2003

#6 OFFLINE   houskamp

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Posted 19 July 2007 - 07:49 AM

I was watching just the other day and what I saw was the record light came on right on time, From what I saw it looked like it was just the time for the hardware to actualy start recording. Almost like it went start recording and the hardware started working on it and then finaly started actualy saving the data..

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#7 OFFLINE   nocaster

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Posted 19 July 2007 - 08:43 AM

Here's something else I have noticed. Go to the guide at say 7:29 PM. A new show will start on time at 7:30 but the guide will not update to the new time for what seems like 15 to 30 seconds. I find this irritating because sometimes I try to switch to a new channel and the option to record the show that just ended will come up instead of just changing the channel. I have also seen shows not start recording until the guide data updates to the current time slot.

#8 OFFLINE   bto4wd

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Posted 19 July 2007 - 08:57 AM

Very interesting. Tonight I have NBC Nightly News set to record OTA HD and MPEG4 HD just to see if they start at the same place.
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#9 OFFLINE   WolfpackSully

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Posted 19 July 2007 - 09:56 AM

I have done zero background work on this so I may be way off, but is there any chance that the "recording start delay" has anything to do with the "native on" channel changing delays? I'm not saying that you must have native set to "on" to see the delay, but maybe the tuner doing the recording has a default broadcast/display setting and loses a couple seconds setting up whatever setting the recording is broadcast in. Heck, maybe the recorder doesn't have any default and thus has to "configure" no matter what is being recorded. We all know the HR20 takes some amount of time to "think" or adjust to display configurations.

Just thinking out loud...

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#10 OFFLINE   Doug Brott

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Posted 19 July 2007 - 10:18 AM

I think I'm going to have to pay more attention :). I know that any delay has not bothered me in the least, but that being said, it doesn't mean that it's not happening. It could be that I just don't notice due to my viewing habits.

I'll look out for this issue in the future.
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#11 OFFLINE   bto4wd

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Posted 19 July 2007 - 10:38 AM

I have done zero background work on this so I may be way off, but is there any chance that the "recording start delay" has anything to do with the "native on" channel changing delays? I'm not saying that you must have native set to "on" to see the delay, but maybe the tuner doing the recording has a default broadcast/display setting and loses a couple seconds setting up whatever setting the recording is broadcast in. Heck, maybe the recorder doesn't have any default and thus has to "configure" no matter what is being recorded. We all know the HR20 takes some amount of time to "think" or adjust to display configurations.

Just thinking out loud...

Sully

FWIW I see the delay on everything and have native off.
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#12 OFFLINE   Indiana627

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Posted 19 July 2007 - 10:40 AM

I have done zero background work on this so I may be way off, but is there any chance that the "recording start delay" has anything to do with the "native on" channel changing delays? I'm not saying that you must have native set to "on" to see the delay, but maybe the tuner doing the recording has a default broadcast/display setting and loses a couple seconds setting up whatever setting the recording is broadcast in. Heck, maybe the recorder doesn't have any default and thus has to "configure" no matter what is being recorded. We all know the HR20 takes some amount of time to "think" or adjust to display configurations.

Just thinking out loud...

Sully

I don't think so since in my example I had the channel set to 229 and that's the channel it was scheduled to record on, so there shouldn't have been any delay caused by the HR20 having to adjust for the resolution.

And I have native off on my box.
Mark

"We named the dog Indiana."
Family Room: HR24-100; WD10EVCS 1TB drive in Antec MX-1; connected via HDMI to Denon AVR-2313CI; 5.1 setup with Boston Acoustics A250 fronts, A225C center, A25 surrounds, ASW650 sub; video to Sony 52W4100 via HDMI; hardwired to Linksys WRT54G
Bedroom: HR21-200 with AM21 & Philips PHDTV1 Antenna, HDMI to Dynex 32" TV; hardwired to Linksys WRT54G
(1) Slimline 3 LBN dish (2 lines direct to each HR2x. No multiswitch.)
D* since January 2003

#13 OFFLINE   Tom M

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Posted 19 July 2007 - 12:17 PM

Nice analysis. Add this to the way the HR20 tends to start playing a few seconds into the recording, and it adds up. Though, I will say, I've gotten into the habit of hitting the rewind button whenever I start a show so that part's not too big a deal. It did, however get me the interesting time on the status bar last night of "0:-1".

I had one instance where I thought it had missed the first 5 minutes of Jeopardy! so I thought that the show started early for some reason. I did a rewind and got to 0:-5 on the status bar. On another show it was to have recorded 2 hours (which it indicated it did) but 21 minutes in I got the Keep or Delete message. I moved through the show more slowly and right before that the status bar jumped to the 2:00 mark with a time of 11:11.

While most of the time the HR20 works pretty well it's just very frustrating for basic functions to still be misbehaving after it's been deployed for so long.

#14 OFFLINE   WolfpackSully

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Posted 19 July 2007 - 12:45 PM

I'm not saying you have to have native on. I'm saying that as we can see when we have native on (and even when native is off to a smaller degree), the HR20 must do some "thinking" when changing display configurations. Realizing that, maybe the receiver trying to setup for the recording is what's causing the delay in "recording start." Then again, maybe not. It was just a thought for discussion.

Also, since the receiver toggles receivers, it shouldn't matter what channel you are currently watching since the "other" tuner is most likely what will be doing the recording (unless recording on both). Not sure that anyone knows what the other tuner is set to when it is not actively doing something. Fun to guess though... :D

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#15 OFFLINE   bto4wd

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Posted 19 July 2007 - 01:20 PM

I'm not saying you have to have native on. I'm saying that as we can see when we have native on (and even when native is off to a smaller degree), the HR20 must do some "thinking" when changing display configurations. Realizing that, maybe the receiver trying to setup for the recording is what's causing the delay in "recording start." Then again, maybe not. It was just a thought for discussion.

Also, since the receiver toggles receivers, it shouldn't matter what channel you are currently watching since the "other" tuner is most likely what will be doing the recording (unless recording on both). Not sure that anyone knows what the other tuner is set to when it is not actively doing something. Fun to guess though... :D

Sully

Anything's possible. But doesn't native mode only effect the display of a show? Making a bug assumption here, but the HR10 simply records the video stream when it records a program. Data comes in from the SAT tuner and it's stored on the HD. It's during playback the decryption/native mode aspect comes into play. If that's true (again only my guess) then all that should happen is the bits start being saved to a file on the HD without any conversion/decryption at all.
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#16 OFFLINE   Indiana627

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Posted 19 July 2007 - 01:26 PM

I'm not saying you have to have native on. I'm saying that as we can see when we have native on (and even when native is off to a smaller degree), the HR20 must do some "thinking" when changing display configurations. Realizing that, maybe the receiver trying to setup for the recording is what's causing the delay in "recording start." Then again, maybe not. It was just a thought for discussion.

I get what you're saying and who am I to know for sure that that's not part of the problem. But in my case, the tuner was on the channel to record and it's clear from the photos that that same tuner was used to record on and not the other (background) tuner.
Mark

"We named the dog Indiana."
Family Room: HR24-100; WD10EVCS 1TB drive in Antec MX-1; connected via HDMI to Denon AVR-2313CI; 5.1 setup with Boston Acoustics A250 fronts, A225C center, A25 surrounds, ASW650 sub; video to Sony 52W4100 via HDMI; hardwired to Linksys WRT54G
Bedroom: HR21-200 with AM21 & Philips PHDTV1 Antenna, HDMI to Dynex 32" TV; hardwired to Linksys WRT54G
(1) Slimline 3 LBN dish (2 lines direct to each HR2x. No multiswitch.)
D* since January 2003

#17 OFFLINE   bto4wd

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Posted 19 July 2007 - 07:28 PM

Tonight I was watching the local NBC OTA HD channel when recording was to begin. As the info bar changed to 5:30 the REC light came on and the screen went black for 24 seconds. After that the news continued in progress. Recording showed the same. I could RR to the beginning and it would play 24 seconds of black screen and then the program would appear, 24 seconds into it.

I recorded both OTA HD and MPEG4 HD and they both were identical. Other shows that start late do not have the black screen at the beginning and I cannot RR.
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