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OTA and new 5 LNB


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25 replies to this topic

#1 OFFLINE   jaykelp

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Posted 19 July 2007 - 04:54 PM

I have the new 6x8 multiswitch and all the programing. I have been fooling with the OTA channels and the requested waiver has failed twice now. I am about 15 miles from the source so I thought any antenna would do. I guess not. Is there a way to hook it up to the multiswitch? I have two ports available on each side? would that work as an OTA? One of the cables run already is not being used. Could that be used as the OTA? Or do I have to get a separate antenna installed? I am trying to avoid the climbing and the work not to mention the grief of the "look" from the wife. Any suggestions would be appreciated. I am somewhat novice but I have had D* for 8 years and have been through several installs, upgrades... Y'alls help is appreciated!!!!

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#2 OFFLINE   harsh

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Posted 19 July 2007 - 05:12 PM

Is there a way to hook it up to the multiswitch?

No.

#3 OFFLINE   CCarncross

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Posted 19 July 2007 - 05:43 PM

I used a simple amplified indoor and I am about 35 miles from the towers for my locals and they can in pretty well. I cant imagine at 15 miles you cant get your locals even with a simple indoor antenna. You need a separate cable run for your OTA signal, it cant run through the multiswitch.

#4 ONLINE   litzdog911

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Posted 19 July 2007 - 06:22 PM

Check out the "Local HDTV Reception Forum" at http://www.avsforum.com and find the thread for your nearest city. There you can ask local folks what antennas work well for them.
HD DVRs: HR34-700; HR24-500; (2) HR20-700 + WD eSATA 1TB drive/Antec MX1 case; HR21-700; HR21-200 w/AM21
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#5 OFFLINE   NR4P

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Posted 19 July 2007 - 06:54 PM

jaykelp, whatever ant you try, don't forget to scan/search for new channels after connecting it directly to the ant port on the HR20.

It won't find any local OTA channels without scanning after you enter your zip code.

#6 OFFLINE   bradfjoh

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Posted 19 July 2007 - 08:08 PM

You need a separate cable run for your OTA signal, it cant run through the multiswitch.


Is this accurate? I'm trying to decide whether to trade in the Tivo and thought that the OTA cable could still piggyback off one of the sat cables. Is that because of the HR20 or a best practice???

-Brad

#7 OFFLINE   houskamp

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Posted 19 July 2007 - 09:01 PM

Is this accurate? I'm trying to decide whether to trade in the Tivo and thought that the OTA cable could still piggyback off one of the sat cables. Is that because of the HR20 or a best practice???

-Brad

It's because of the new sats going into service soon..
On the bright side they are also working on a single wire setup for the new recievers..

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MRV was all that's left on my wishlist (wishlist done) :D


#8 OFFLINE   veryoldschool

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Posted 19 July 2007 - 09:19 PM

jaykelp, whatever ant you try, don't forget to scan/search for new channels after connecting it directly to the ant port on the HR20.

It won't find any local OTA channels without scanning after you enter your zip code.

I think you mean to setup the OTA channels as the HR-20 doesn't "scan" for OTA channels like so many other ATSC tuners.
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#9 OFFLINE   Meklos

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Posted 19 July 2007 - 09:47 PM

To be technically correct, it *is* possible to diplex the OTA signal into the same wire... but it takes a very unorthodox solution.

The BBCs are designed to be installed directly on the back of the receiver... Like this

Dish - (RG6) - Multiswitch - (RG6) - BBC - Receiver

But if you put it together like this:

Dish - (RG6) - Multiswitch - BBC - Diplexer - (RG6) - Diplexer - Receiver

Then you can do it. The basic problem is the frequency between the dish and the BBC (for the new signals) is in the same range of frequency as OTA. The BBC's job is actually to move that signal up in frequency significantly. That means that the 'output' side of the BBC is "OTA-friendly"... but in 99.99% of installations, the 'output' side of the BBC is about 0.01 wire inches from the input of the receiver.

The downside to this type of change to the installation are twofold. One... the BBCs are not designed to be in any type of harsh environment, nothing close to what most of the multiswitches are designed for. Secondly, cable loss goes up pretty dramatically as frequency goes up. Since moving the BBC closer to the dish actually means that you are transporting the new signals via a higher frequency range over the long run of RG6 (instead of the really short run from the output of the BBC to the input of the receiver), it is possible you could run into signal loss problems due to that long run at higher frequency that you would not normally see if the BBCs were right on the back of the receiver.

But unless something has changed in the last few months... it *can* be done.

#10 OFFLINE   CCarncross

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Posted 20 July 2007 - 05:19 AM

Since this leads to a whole slew of other questions and misunderstandings, and a huge waste of repeated answers, I just say you need a separate line now.

When the SWM is available to all, I will gladly point newbies in that direction. Maybe just a sticky is in order for this, so instead of a huge discussion every few days answering the exact same questions, we could just point to the sticky thread.

#11 OFFLINE   jwd45244

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Posted 20 July 2007 - 10:39 AM

But unless something has changed in the last few months... it *can* be done.


Not only can it be done, lots of us have done it and it works (I know it might not when the D10 start transmitting).

Why is the first answer on this always 'No"? The answer really is 'It depends". Just like the standard answer for Media Sharing is ViiV but we have found that WMP11, Twonky, and Tversity work too.
-- Jim D.
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Slimline w/ SWM LNB---- (mounted on CommDeck) ----> SWM Power Inserter -----> CM4002IFD Diplexer
Winegard OTA Antenna ------------------> CM7777 OTA Amplifier ----------------> CM4002IFD Diplexer
CM4002IFD Diplexer ----> STS-4 splitter ----> HR20-700 - Vizio VO32L, HR20-700 - SDTV, HR21-200 (w/ AM21) - Vizio VX42L, HR21-200 - SDTV; CM4001IFD as splitting diplexer on all legs; All networked

#12 OFFLINE   veryoldschool

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Posted 20 July 2007 - 10:43 AM

Not only can it be done, lots of us have done it and it works (I know it might not when the D10 start transmitting).

Since "might not" will change to "will not" when D10 comes on-line, I doubt anybody here wants to offer help that will cause trouble in the long run.
A.K.A VOS

#13 OFFLINE   jwd45244

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Posted 20 July 2007 - 10:55 AM

I don't understand why diplexing downstream from the BBC won't work. I get it that long RG6 runs could be problematic. I really want to understand what will cause this to fail. I know that if you try to diplex upstream of the BBC you lose OTA completely. I saw this while I was experimenting.
-- Jim D.
DirecTV sub. since 1998
Slimline w/ SWM LNB---- (mounted on CommDeck) ----> SWM Power Inserter -----> CM4002IFD Diplexer
Winegard OTA Antenna ------------------> CM7777 OTA Amplifier ----------------> CM4002IFD Diplexer
CM4002IFD Diplexer ----> STS-4 splitter ----> HR20-700 - Vizio VO32L, HR20-700 - SDTV, HR21-200 (w/ AM21) - Vizio VX42L, HR21-200 - SDTV; CM4001IFD as splitting diplexer on all legs; All networked

#14 OFFLINE   veryoldschool

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Posted 20 July 2007 - 11:05 AM

I don't understand why diplexing downstream from the BBC won't work. I get it that long RG6 runs could be problematic. I really want to understand what will cause this to fail. I know that if you try to diplex upstream of the BBC you lose OTA completely. I saw this while I was experimenting.

You know enough about how it works, but to date, nobody knows about how far up stream the BBCs will work other than what D* [through Earl] has stated: that they need "to be close" to the receiver. Is this within 6' or can it be 20', maybe 30'?
Imagine someone has everything "all setup" and then the new channels come on-line, but they can't get them?
How many "you said" postings?
I post what will work to the best of my knowledge. YMMV
After "we know", we might change "our tune".
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#15 OFFLINE   glennb

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Posted 20 July 2007 - 11:06 AM

The first answer is always 'No" because that's what the users manual says.

Diplexing works for some now, but it probably won't later, or won't work reliably.

#16 OFFLINE   hasan

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Posted 20 July 2007 - 11:14 AM

Not only can it be done, lots of us have done it and it works (I know it might not when the D10 start transmitting).

Why is the first answer on this always 'No"? The answer really is 'It depends". Just like the standard answer for Media Sharing is ViiV but we have found that WMP11, Twonky, and Tversity work too.


The answer given is no, because it's a bad idea. Yeah, you can kludge it...but nine out of 10 people who are led down the primrose path with these half-baked work arounds are going to either get it wrong, or be totally mystified when D10 comes on line.

It's all a matter of who the target audience is. For those who know how to "trick it" (and no one has tested their work-around against D10 yet, because it isn't on line for us), fine, go ahead....but before advising some other poor soul to play the same game, consider the difficulties you may be causing him in the future.

So, yes, it can be done. Should it? NO, not unless you very much understand what you are doing. (and can remember what you did to screw things up, next Sept when D10 comes on and things don't work right.)

The answer isn't so much "technical" in nature, but practical. Is the "newby" well served with these types of "variations"? I don't think so, and that's why you see the answer given as "no", when in fact, temporarily at least, it is possible.

...and just to take on the straw man of Media Sharing: I have seen very, very few people on this forum say you have to have VIIV to use it. That is very old and inaccurate information, and no one has been giving it out lately, so the parallel doesn't hold much validity.

W/R to the aforementioned diplexing scheme: Yes, you can do it, but you probably shouldn't...and this doesn't even begin to address the additional OTA signal losses from diplexing. I've never liked it, even when it was legitimate.

...hasan, N0AN

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#17 OFFLINE   carl6

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Posted 20 July 2007 - 11:20 AM

The BBC is controlled by a pulsed tone signal of some type from the receiver. Until the proper signals are on the air, and the switching is being done, we won't know how far the bbc can be separated from the receiver, nor if the diplexed signal will interfere with the signalling.

Carl

#18 OFFLINE   veryoldschool

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Posted 20 July 2007 - 11:23 AM

Has anybody noticed those with the blue & black under their names are all trying to help out with the same info?
A.K.A VOS

#19 OFFLINE   hasan

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Posted 20 July 2007 - 11:28 AM

Has anybody noticed those with the blue & black under their names are all trying to help out with the same info?


So....it's either a conspiracy, group think, or.......OMG....the best answer. Whoa!:rolleyes:

...hasan, N0AN

SlimLine5-SWiMLNB/DECA/WHDVR
HR44-700, WD20EURX 2 TB eSATA/ThermalTake Max 5 Enclosure

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HR24-200, H21-200. Samsung UN60C6400 60" LED/LCD

DirecTV since 1995


#20 OFFLINE   jwd45244

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Posted 20 July 2007 - 12:05 PM

I very much appreciate all of the information the Echelon has and the help that they provide. You all are valuable. I absolutely know that you all are trying to help. I am trying to learn why this is a bad idea. I am not trying to challenge you all.
-- Jim D.
DirecTV sub. since 1998
Slimline w/ SWM LNB---- (mounted on CommDeck) ----> SWM Power Inserter -----> CM4002IFD Diplexer
Winegard OTA Antenna ------------------> CM7777 OTA Amplifier ----------------> CM4002IFD Diplexer
CM4002IFD Diplexer ----> STS-4 splitter ----> HR20-700 - Vizio VO32L, HR20-700 - SDTV, HR21-200 (w/ AM21) - Vizio VX42L, HR21-200 - SDTV; CM4001IFD as splitting diplexer on all legs; All networked




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