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Guest Message by DevFuse

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Would You Check to See If Your Keyword Search Order is Always HD First Now?


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20 replies to this topic

#1 OFFLINE   Milominderbinder2

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Posted 24 July 2007 - 12:02 AM

I just forced the 0x17e download and did some testing. One fix promised in the release notes is:

Search order puts HD channels before SD, and SAT-HD before OTA

It seems to work the first time you run the search...

But try this:

Do a Keyword Search for the "Chicago Cubs". The HD's are all first. Now do a Keyword Search for CSI NY. Now run the Recent Search for the Chicago Cubs again.

The HD channel versions are now listed second:

http://www.dbstalk.c...=1&d=1185255637

The HD's are listed second for other channels as well:

http://www.dbstalk.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=9215&stc=1&d=1185255637

The HD's are listed second for all channels in the search results now:

http://www.dbstalk.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=9216&stc=1&d=1185255637

Run the Recent Search for CSI NY then the Recent Search for Chicago Cubs again.

Now the HD's are listed first again. (Notice the time stamp for verification.)

http://www.dbstalk.c...=1&d=1185255637

Just to make sure that my Cubs were not being singled out, I also replicated the HD sort order bug with the Chicago White Sox.

Also note that the Search Results still looks like you are getting duplicate channel results because the Search only shows the channel number not the alphanumeric channel name like the Guide and the To Do list now.

In some of the examples above if I had not already marked the HD program to be recorded ®, they would have looked like duplicate channel listings. As you can see many HD programs are still not labeled with the [HD] icon.

I know that 0x17e did not go through the CE process to test the Search Results sort order and other new features. But would you try replicating this bug when you get the National Release of 0x17e?

Thanks,

- Craig

Attached Thumbnails

  • HD Results Second.JPG
  • HD Results Now Always Second.JPG
  • HD Results Still Always Second.JPG
  • HD Results Listed First Again.JPG


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#2 OFFLINE   Coffey77

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Posted 24 July 2007 - 03:37 AM

I will tell you, I searched for Greek last night and it came up HD first - then SD - then OTA.
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#3 OFFLINE   DogLover

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Posted 24 July 2007 - 06:40 AM

Keyword search for Braves also shows a HD channel listed after an SD channel. (Neither show is actually in HD.)

The title searches that I have done do seem to be sorted correctly.
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#4 OFFLINE   Tom Robertson

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Posted 24 July 2007 - 07:20 AM

EDIT: Re-read the release notes. Correct order should be HD, OTA, SD. NONE of the searches I ran EVER returned in that order!

Using "Crime Scene" as the keyword, I got the slew of hits I expected, mostly on SD channels. But the regular Thursday nite showings on our local channel had some interesting things. This week the HD was first, then the SD, then OTA. Next week, it was SD, HD, then OTA. Bad form.

So I did "Shark". Got a hit on Good Morning America tomorrow morning, proper order: HD, SD, OTA. Got another hit on The Morning Show with Mike & Juliet for Thursday, wrong order: SD, HD, OTA. Several others were as expected.

"NCIS" Good this week, incorrect next week.

Searching on "LAW ORDER" brought up some good hits but Law & Order: Criminal Intent for Friday was backward: SD, HD, and OTA. And in this example, the HD flag was also correctly set. (Not always true on some of our locals.) Again, Law & Order for Sunday nite also backward.

This is one of those things that would greatly anger me as a manager of programmers or QA. If it has been reportedly fixed, the tests are so simple simple to run. The programmer who coded this fix would only make this mistake once working for me (yes, he/she would be given a second chance but that would be it.) I expect thorough unit testing before the module gets checked in for formal build; I expect thorough QA testing before the build gets approved (or at least remove the mention of fix from the release notes). For something this bloody obvious, there is no excuse. Especially when you have a user base (good job, Craig!) handing you, on a silver platter, the exact test sequence.

Ok, I'll pause the ranting...
Cheers,
Tom

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My real treasures: 5 Grandchildren - S, D, M, M, C ; Now 5! Great-Grandtibbers - B, H, J, A, and M (Born 7/31/2011)


#5 OFFLINE   HouseBowlrz

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Posted 24 July 2007 - 07:32 AM

I just forced the 0x17e download and did some testing. One fix promised in the release notes is:

Search order puts HD channels before SD, and SAT-HD before OTA



Here's something else ... I did a search for "Redskins" and one of the local stations is running a special this weekend. I made sure I was recording from the HD feed which is showing second.


hmmm ...
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#6 OFFLINE   Stuart Sweet

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Posted 24 July 2007 - 07:52 AM

Did a search last night for Law and Order and HD was not listed first.

My locals are the same ones as El Segundo, CA where DIRECTV's headquarters are. I did one search and was able to see the results were not sorted properly.

I've seen HD listed first sometimes in the past; it's not consistent.
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#7 OFFLINE   Tom Robertson

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Posted 24 July 2007 - 08:01 AM

A clarification, in case needed. By my earlier post, I am not saying this is or is not an easy thing to fix. I can see possibilities either way. Just that it is so easily tested right now.

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#8 OFFLINE   Milominderbinder2

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Posted 24 July 2007 - 08:05 AM

deleted and moved to another thread.

- Craig

#9 OFFLINE   Ken S

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Posted 24 July 2007 - 01:25 PM

Order here for Soundstage (PBS) was/is for showings at the same time.

SD (Channel 42)
OTA HD (Channel 42-1)

A search on Entourage on Wed 7/25 9:30P (ET) brought this up...
SD (Channel 501)
HD (Channel 70)
HD (Channel 509)
SD (Channel 511)

But...on the 7/26 showing at 3:35A it was...
HD (Channel 70)
SD (Channel 501)
HD (Channel 509)

It appears random is the sort method :)

#10 OFFLINE   Ken S

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Posted 24 July 2007 - 01:34 PM

EDIT: Re-read the release notes. Correct order should be HD, OTA, SD. NONE of the searches I ran EVER returned in that order!

Using "Crime Scene" as the keyword, I got the slew of hits I expected, mostly on SD channels. But the regular Thursday nite showings on our local channel had some interesting things. This week the HD was first, then the SD, then OTA. Next week, it was SD, HD, then OTA. Bad form.

So I did "Shark". Got a hit on Good Morning America tomorrow morning, proper order: HD, SD, OTA. Got another hit on The Morning Show with Mike & Juliet for Thursday, wrong order: SD, HD, OTA. Several others were as expected.

"NCIS" Good this week, incorrect next week.

Searching on "LAW ORDER" brought up some good hits but Law & Order: Criminal Intent for Friday was backward: SD, HD, and OTA. And in this example, the HD flag was also correctly set. (Not always true on some of our locals.) Again, Law & Order for Sunday nite also backward.

This is one of those things that would greatly anger me as a manager of programmers or QA. If it has been reportedly fixed, the tests are so simple simple to run. The programmer who coded this fix would only make this mistake once working for me (yes, he/she would be given a second chance but that would be it.) I expect thorough unit testing before the module gets checked in for formal build; I expect thorough QA testing before the build gets approved (or at least remove the mention of fix from the release notes). For something this bloody obvious, there is no excuse. Especially when you have a user base (good job, Craig!) handing you, on a silver platter, the exact test sequence.

Ok, I'll pause the ranting...
Cheers,
Tom


Tom,

I'm not a member of the CE program out of personal preference...but I thought they ran their NRs through that program first...did this feature not go through CE testing? Did I change from that point on?

Something is very strange about the way DirecTV releases software. It's certainly doesn't seem to be in line with what anyone would call "best practices".

#11 OFFLINE   Tom Robertson

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Posted 24 July 2007 - 01:51 PM

Tom,

I'm not a member of the CE program out of personal preference...but I thought they ran their NRs through that program first...did this feature not go through CE testing? Did I change from that point on?

Something is very strange about the way DirecTV releases software. It's certainly doesn't seem to be in line with what anyone would call "best practices".


The NRs are built upon several rounds of CEs (a good practice), which are tested internally before the CE (another good practice). The last release in a cycle of CEs building to a NR typically is reserved for very minor fixes and in hopefully a very controlled manner (also good). At that point, DIRECTV might choose to avoid the costs of a CE (there are some which are already being discussed in the CE forum right now, btw) and use the staggered rollout instead, which they did this time.

What seems to be a recurring problem is that someone (I'm guessing a developer) declares a fix is ready and that entry makes it to the release notes before the QA team verifies the fix. (Not a good practice.) Normally, I have my QA teams build the internal release notes from test results, not the developers from what they have coded. It is way too easy for the development or engineering team to accidentally ship embarrassing release notes when the developers build them.

Then I give the release notes to Marketing to decide what and how to publish to the larger customer base. I don't mind, indeed I'm glad that we get a pre-marketing set, but am surprised we get to see the embarrassing set of release notes. I sure would not want to be the manager that lets these get out untested. Making red faces too often tends to lead to pinkies of a different kind...

Cheers,
Tom

Go Packers!

My real treasures: 5 Grandchildren - S, D, M, M, C ; Now 5! Great-Grandtibbers - B, H, J, A, and M (Born 7/31/2011)


#12 OFFLINE   Ken S

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Posted 24 July 2007 - 02:53 PM

Tom,

You obviously know more about the way D releases software than I...so I can't say whether it's a procedural issue on the dev notes or a breakdown in the way software is being tested prior to release.
BTW, I'm surprised that the notes aren't going through DirecTV legal as well as marketing.

#13 OFFLINE   say-what

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Posted 24 July 2007 - 03:34 PM

EDIT: Re-read the release notes. Correct order should be HD, OTA, SD. NONE of the searches I ran EVER returned in that order!

When I search CSI by title, I get results for my local channel grouped HD, SD, OTA.

When I search "Crime Scene" or CSI as a keyword, I get results for my local channel grouped SD, HD, OTA

As long as there is an HD icon, that's fine, but they really need to designate the HD channel in a different manner than the SD counterpart

#14 ONLINE   armophob

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Posted 24 July 2007 - 04:33 PM

I am a bit confused as to what is being asked here. The order is supposed to override chronological order of channels on a showing at the same time with HD then SD? In the examples above I see the same game on the same channel (640) at the same time (7pm) in HD and SD. How is that possible?
I don't think I can check this out on mine because the only HD/SD duplicates I can think of are the HBO and Showtime, and they are on lower channel #'s chronologically anyway.

#15 OFFLINE   Ken S

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Posted 24 July 2007 - 04:56 PM

I am a bit confused as to what is being asked here. The order is supposed to override chronological order of channels on a showing at the same time with HD then SD? In the examples above I see the same game on the same channel (640) at the same time (7pm) in HD and SD. How is that possible?
I don't think I can check this out on mine because the only HD/SD duplicates I can think of are the HBO and Showtime, and they are on lower channel #'s chronologically anyway.


Do a search on Entourage on HBO. It will show up on at least 3 channels and sometimes 4 at the same time. 70, 501, 509 and 511. Or just look at my first post in the thread :)

#16 OFFLINE   DogLover

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Posted 24 July 2007 - 05:18 PM

I am a bit confused as to what is being asked here. The order is supposed to override chronological order of channels on a showing at the same time with HD then SD? In the examples above I see the same game on the same channel (640) at the same time (7pm) in HD and SD. How is that possible?
I don't think I can check this out on mine because the only HD/SD duplicates I can think of are the HBO and Showtime, and they are on lower channel #'s chronologically anyway.


When a channel has both HD and SD versions, such as HD and SD locals, or HD and SD RSN's, both channels have the same number. With the locals, in some displays they are separated by a "title" such as 2-WSB (HD version) and 2-AT2 (SD version). In the search results screen they look like duplicates, but are not.

Because there is not display to tell the difference (without pulling up the info on each one) and them not being in a consistant order, it can be very confusing to try to record from this screen. Also, if an auto record is set up, it uses the first one it finds in this screen, whether it is HD, SD, or OTA. And as some examples have showed us, this could change from episode to episode.
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#17 OFFLINE   Tom Robertson

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Posted 24 July 2007 - 05:53 PM

Tom,

You obviously know more about the way D releases software than I...so I can't say whether it's a procedural issue on the dev notes or a breakdown in the way software is being tested prior to release.
BTW, I'm surprised that the notes aren't going through DirecTV legal as well as marketing.


It's not so much what I "know" but rather just what I have observed the last 9 months both prior to CE and as the CE program has evolved.

DIRECTV doesn't seem to be in extremely legal mode where every single thing needs legal review, thankfully. The people we're working with can be real people and do focus on the customer.

Cheers,
Tom

Go Packers!

My real treasures: 5 Grandchildren - S, D, M, M, C ; Now 5! Great-Grandtibbers - B, H, J, A, and M (Born 7/31/2011)


#18 OFFLINE   Tom Robertson

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Posted 24 July 2007 - 05:57 PM

I am a bit confused as to what is being asked here. The order is supposed to override chronological order of channels on a showing at the same time with HD then SD? In the examples above I see the same game on the same channel (640) at the same time (7pm) in HD and SD. How is that possible?
I don't think I can check this out on mine because the only HD/SD duplicates I can think of are the HBO and Showtime, and they are on lower channel #'s chronologically anyway.


The point is that many shows have multiple opportunities for recording at the same time. My examples all were local channels that had all three possibilities: HD via satellite, OTA, and SD via satellite. According to the release notes they should should be in that order. Alas, they often are not.

Cheers,
Tom

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My real treasures: 5 Grandchildren - S, D, M, M, C ; Now 5! Great-Grandtibbers - B, H, J, A, and M (Born 7/31/2011)


#19 ONLINE   armophob

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Posted 24 July 2007 - 06:58 PM

Ok, I can see where if I had an OTA antenna this would be confusing. I just use my custom 1 to eliminate the sd versions of the same channel.

#20 OFFLINE   DogLover

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Posted 24 July 2007 - 07:09 PM

Ok, I can see where if I had an OTA antenna this would be confusing. I just use my custom 1 to eliminate the sd versions of the same channel.


Unfortunately, the search does not use the favorites selection to eliminate these channels. The favorites seem only to be used in the guide, not for the search.
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