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Guest Message by DevFuse

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Could these HD-DVD Titles... help close the gap?


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109 replies to this topic

#1 OFFLINE   Earl Bonovich

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Posted 27 July 2007 - 05:36 PM

These two titles:

Star Trek Original Series Season 1:
http://www.engadgeth...ts-november-20/

Heroes Season 1:
http://www.engadgeth...d-at-comic-con/

While I think the STOS is WAY overpriced (at first I thought it was for the ENTIRE series)...

The Heroes one... will be pre-ordered very soon.
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#2 OFFLINE   RAD

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Posted 27 July 2007 - 05:41 PM

As someone that have both BR and HD DVD, I don't think so, especially Star Trek not making a difference. As for Heros it would probably be showing up on Universal-HD as reruns in HD.

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#3 OFFLINE   DogLover

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Posted 27 July 2007 - 07:45 PM

I would have thought that was for the whole series as well. I don't think it even tempts me at that price for 1 season.
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#4 OFFLINE   Stewart Vernon

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Posted 27 July 2007 - 08:34 PM

Many of the HD-DVD releases I have seen are 50-75% higher than DVD releases. I see a lot of $19.99 DVDs and $29.99 HD-DVD releases of the same movie at the same time.

Back when Star Trek: TOS came out on DVD... the SRP for each season was somewhere around $125.00 and I remember paying $99.99 for each season as they came out. Sets can be had for much cheaper now, and especially once these HD versions come out... but originally they were quite pricey.

Jump to today... If SRP is around $200, expect places like Amazon to have this for $175.00 or so on preorder at some point.

Now... all that said... while I am not surprised at the high price... I am not rushing out to get these either. Firstly, I don't have HD-DVD (or Blu-Ray) because I don't want to sink money into a format that might be gone in a couple of years... and my HDTV doesn't have DVI or HDMI so if studios decide to enforce that downconvert option then I'd have to buy a new TV to watch things in HD... so I'm boycotting until things settle down.

Plus I'll save a bunch of money if I one-day do buy them when the price comes way down later.

-- I like to go fast (not really)


#5 OFFLINE   dfergie

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Posted 27 July 2007 - 08:44 PM

Only if they continue to put up HD DVD exclusive HD DVD's ... bring it on ;)

#6 OFFLINE   Christopher Gould

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Posted 27 July 2007 - 08:47 PM

How can it survive with only Universal?

#7 OFFLINE   ebaltz

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Posted 28 July 2007 - 12:18 AM

HD-DVD is dead. RIP
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#8 OFFLINE   allargon

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Posted 28 July 2007 - 09:46 AM

They're both niche formats like SACD and DVD-A.

In 3 years we will have dual-format players for $200 or less and think back humorously about this whole "format war".

#9 OFFLINE   machavez00

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Posted 28 July 2007 - 09:48 AM

How can it survive with only Universal?


http://en.wikipedia....ndustry_support

In terms of major studios in North America, HD DVD is currently exclusively backed by Universal Studios (including subsidiaries Rogue Pictures, Focus Features and Polygram Filmed Entertainment), The Weinstein Company/Dimension Films (through Genius Products), and First Look Studios. The format is non-exclusively backed by Paramount Pictures, DreamWorks, Warner Bros. Pictures (it should be noted that a number of Warner's titles—Batman Begins, V for Vendetta, The Perfect Storm, Troy, Poseidon, Terminator 3: Rise of the Machines, The Matrix Trilogy—are HD DVD exclusive at the present), Warner Music Group, New Line Cinema, HBO, Studio Canal, and Image Entertainment (including the Discovery Channel),[34] Magnolia Pictures,[35] Brentwood Home Video, Ryko, Koch/Goldhil Entertainment.[36] HD DVD does have more studio support worldwide, especially in Europe. HD DVD is currently exclusively backed by several adult-movie/pornography studios/publishers, including Wicked Pictures, Pink Visual, Bang Bros, Digital Playground Inc. and ClubJenna Inc. (which on 22 June 2006 was acquired by Playboy Enterprises), and HD DVD is also non-exclusively backed by Vivid Entertainment.

Sources claim history as a reference, that the pornography industry may have a big influence in the HD DVD versus Blu-ray format war, at least when it comes to home rental and retail purchases or pressed movies as it generates multi-billion annual revenue worldwide, (with US$57 billion in annual revenue worldwide reported in May, 2006).[37] Although this was a major factor during the VHS/Betamax war, due to the fact of consumers previously not having any means of home viewing, it remains to be seen whether the current format war will be affected similarly.[38]

I have read that HD-DVD sales are much higher than Bluray in Europe.

#10 OFFLINE   ebaltz

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Posted 28 July 2007 - 03:57 PM

http://en.wikipedia....ndustry_support

In terms of major studios in North America, HD DVD is currently exclusively backed by Universal Studios (including subsidiaries Rogue Pictures, Focus Features and Polygram Filmed Entertainment), The Weinstein Company/Dimension Films (through Genius Products), and First Look Studios. The format is non-exclusively backed by Paramount Pictures, DreamWorks, Warner Bros. Pictures (it should be noted that a number of Warner's titles—Batman Begins, V for Vendetta, The Perfect Storm, Troy, Poseidon, Terminator 3: Rise of the Machines, The Matrix Trilogy—are HD DVD exclusive at the present), Warner Music Group, New Line Cinema, HBO, Studio Canal, and Image Entertainment (including the Discovery Channel),[34] Magnolia Pictures,[35] Brentwood Home Video, Ryko, Koch/Goldhil Entertainment.[36] HD DVD does have more studio support worldwide, especially in Europe. HD DVD is currently exclusively backed by several adult-movie/pornography studios/publishers, including Wicked Pictures, Pink Visual, Bang Bros, Digital Playground Inc. and ClubJenna Inc. (which on 22 June 2006 was acquired by Playboy Enterprises), and HD DVD is also non-exclusively backed by Vivid Entertainment.

Sources claim history as a reference, that the pornography industry may have a big influence in the HD DVD versus Blu-ray format war, at least when it comes to home rental and retail purchases or pressed movies as it generates multi-billion annual revenue worldwide, (with US$57 billion in annual revenue worldwide reported in May, 2006).[37] Although this was a major factor during the VHS/Betamax war, due to the fact of consumers previously not having any means of home viewing, it remains to be seen whether the current format war will be affected similarly.[38]

I have read that HD-DVD sales are much higher than Bluray in Europe.




You just keep on dreaming. Blu-ray beats DVD-HD in every way possible, and anyone with a brain knows it. Let homeless people by the cheapo players at walmart and the rest of us enjoy the actual quality of Blu-ray and its superior format. In a year or so people will be asking what DVD-HD is. But you go ahead and enjoy your non-next gen format and your limited titles. The rest of us know the reality.
Dish HD w/ 1 Hopper and 3 Joey, PS3, Sony HN1000 Receiver and Sony Bravia HX800 3D TV

#11 OFFLINE   Stuart Sweet

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Posted 28 July 2007 - 04:09 PM

I remember someone saying almost the same thing about Beta back in '86... Maybe this time you'll be right. I mean that respectfully, I hope Blu-Ray gains momentum and the format war ends in 2007. If Blu-Ray can't do it, then I hope HD-DVD can. I'm just tired of waiting to see who wins.
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#12 OFFLINE   Stewart Vernon

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Posted 28 July 2007 - 04:54 PM

My money is still on both Blu-Ray and HD-DVD losing. Not enough customers to help keep either format afloat, and the competition between them is killing both bottom lines.

Home users had to choose between VHS or Beta at that time... and they chose VHS. DVD took much longer to adopt over VHS because VHS was an established standard by then.

DVD really just picked up a few years ago, especially with all the TV show releases on DVD format. Many folks are just getting their DVD collections started and aren't looking to switch formats just yet.

Most of what is out there today is good enough on DVD for most of the consumers. I can tell a difference and I still buy DVDs myself because much of the time I am happy enough with the experience.

The only way to force consumers to adopt HD-DVD or Blu-Ray would be to stop making DVDs... and that isn't going to happen... so I fully expect a 3rd format to appear in the next 5 years that will drive the current HD product under. So I'm not buying into either format at this time.

Many things about Blu-Ray are better, at least in theory, than HD-DVD... but the stubbornness of both sides that resulted in this competition really only hurts both camps in the long run.

-- I like to go fast (not really)


#13 OFFLINE   allargon

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Posted 28 July 2007 - 06:16 PM

I don't get you guys. This stupid format war is why you can buy a standalone high def player for under $200 if you look around. If this format war were non-existant players would still be $1000 with first generation features and response time and most discs would look like the original Blu-ray of The Fifth Element.

#14 OFFLINE   Stewart Vernon

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Posted 28 July 2007 - 06:37 PM

I don't get you guys. This stupid format war is why you can buy a standalone high def player for under $200 if you look around. If this format war were non-existant players would still be $1000 with first generation features and response time and most discs would look like the original Blu-ray of The Fifth Element.


Perhaps... but if HD-DVD loses the war, then anyone who buys one of those $200 "deals" will be stuck with a dead product... Same goes for anyone who buys a Blu-Ray player if that format loses.... just like folks got stuck with Betamax players back in the day.

Without a format war, everyone would be buying the same type of HD player... and that would translate to lower prices for the hardware as well since the volume for the manufacturer would be higher.

-- I like to go fast (not really)


#15 OFFLINE   RAD

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Posted 28 July 2007 - 06:52 PM

DVD took much longer to adopt over VHS because VHS was an established standard by then.


IIRC, DVD had a much faster growth rate then VHS did. I found this
http://www.dvdinform...ess/101700.html from back in 2000 which had this statement:

"Launch-to-date, more than 10 million DVD players have been shipped to retailers, a benchmark of success for any consumer electronics product. DVD-Video reached this milestone faster than any other home electronics product including the compact disc and VHS. If growth continues at this rate, there will be nearly nine million DVD-Video players shipped to retailers in calendar 2000, bringing the total units shipped since the format's inception to more than 14 million.".

See post My Setup for configuration info.


#16 OFFLINE   RAD

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Posted 28 July 2007 - 06:54 PM

Perhaps... but if HD-DVD loses the war, then anyone who buys one of those $200 "deals" will be stuck with a dead product... Same goes for anyone who buys a Blu-Ray player if that format loses.... just like folks got stuck with Betamax players back in the day.

Without a format war, everyone would be buying the same type of HD player... and that would translate to lower prices for the hardware as well since the volume for the manufacturer would be higher.


That's part of the reason that I got a PS3 when I decided to go format neutral, at least I'll have a nice game machine and something as a home media center.

See post My Setup for configuration info.


#17 OFFLINE   Stewart Vernon

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Posted 29 July 2007 - 11:40 AM

IIRC, DVD had a much faster growth rate then VHS did. I found this
http://www.dvdinform...ess/101700.html from back in 2000 which had this statement:

"Launch-to-date, more than 10 million DVD players have been shipped to retailers, a benchmark of success for any consumer electronics product. DVD-Video reached this milestone faster than any other home electronics product including the compact disc and VHS. If growth continues at this rate, there will be nearly nine million DVD-Video players shipped to retailers in calendar 2000, bringing the total units shipped since the format's inception to more than 14 million.".



I think that data may be misleading since there are more people buying these kinds of devices now than 20 years ago. Also the prices on DVD players dropped quicker than the prices on VHS players back in the day.

I wasn't so much referring to reaching a particular benchmark... but rather the surpassment and replacement of VHS by DVD. Even when DVD first started selling, people like myself always had a VHS player too... and when you went to video stores there was a lot more VHS on the wall than DVD. It took some time for DVD to regularly outsell VHS as a device and as a media and for the DVD section in stores to grow to a sizable variety of movies.

-- I like to go fast (not really)


#18 OFFLINE   RAD

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Posted 29 July 2007 - 11:52 AM

I think that data may be misleading since there are more people buying these kinds of devices now than 20 years ago. Also the prices on DVD players dropped quicker than the prices on VHS players back in the day.

I wasn't so much referring to reaching a particular benchmark... but rather the surpassment and replacement of VHS by DVD. Even when DVD first started selling, people like myself always had a VHS player too... and when you went to video stores there was a lot more VHS on the wall than DVD. It took some time for DVD to regularly outsell VHS as a device and as a media and for the DVD section in stores to grow to a sizable variety of movies.


Not saying your're totally incorrect with that you're saying, just that in your original post you said " DVD took much longer to adopt over VHS because VHS was an established standard by then." and everything I've seen has said DVD sold more units quicker then VCR's, and the link I provided was from 7 years ago and 2000 wasn't that far from when DVD's were introduced.

See post My Setup for configuration info.


#19 OFFLINE   nfusion770

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Posted 29 July 2007 - 02:27 PM

This debate is ridiculous really. I just bought an Toshiba HD DVD player for $230 and I firmly believe my only risk is the player itself (and even then I have a decent upscaling DVD player). Which ever format wins the war, you can rest assured that the smart hardware manufacturers are going to support both media in their inevitable $99 players, for at least a few generations. I will not be stuck with useless HD DVD's any way you look at it.

I don't really care who wins "the war" but no one should be foolish enough to underestimate the power of Walmart. If Walmart comes out in support of a format and offers an economical player, the "war" is over regardless of movie studio support. The scale of Walmart is just too massive to compete with. I'm pretty sure the stat is something like Walmart moves more stuff in a week than most of its competitors (by market segment) move all year.

#20 OFFLINE   Stewart Vernon

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Posted 29 July 2007 - 02:36 PM

Not saying your're totally incorrect with that you're saying, just that in your original post you said " DVD took much longer to adopt over VHS because VHS was an established standard by then." and everything I've seen has said DVD sold more units quicker then VCR's, and the link I provided was from 7 years ago and 2000 wasn't that far from when DVD's were introduced.



I'm going to have to backup a bit here... and re-state my position as I realize now what I initially said was not exactly what I meant to say.

Let me define first "critical mass" as being the time when product B overtakes product A and essentially wipes it out of the competition. VHS vs Beta was ultimately a 10-12 year or so battle before Beta officially handed in the towel, but the critical mass happened a few years earlier before Sony saw the light and threw in the towel.

DVD vs VHS is still technically going on because VCRs are still in the marketplace and manufacturers are still making consumer units... so we are in roughly year 10 of this battle. If things hold true to form, it may go another couple of years before manufacturers finally throw in the towel and stop making new VCRs. Of course part of this is due to TiVo and other PVR/DVR units, but that muddies the waters so I'll leave that out of this discussion.

Now... While the protracted Beta vs VHS battle was 10-12 years before Beta was formally wiped out... the actual overtaking happened before that, just as is the case now with DVD vs VHS, with DVD having overtaken a few years ago.

It also happens that DVD reaching "critical mass" happened sooner than VHS knocking out Beta so the statements about DVD reaching the controlling marketshare are true.

But what I was referring to was the time before that... When Beta and VHS came out, there was nothing else for the home user to buy... so immediately people who could afford either Beta or VHS bought one. But when DVD came out, VHS was a long-established consumer product so there was not the same drive for the customer to try a new product. DVD, aside from early adopters, sat around a bit in its first few years not getting a lot of shelf space or consumer adoption.

However, once people started really taking notice of all that DVD offered, it took off like gangbusters. So if we were plotting curves... Beta/VHS was a small spike then solid increasing volume over a long period of time... whereas DVD was semi-flatlined then a little growth then an explosion.

Folks were not resistant to VHS/Beta because they wanted this in the home... Those same folks were resistant to DVD because they already had a device that did what DVD offered, and DVD didn't let you record so you lost a feature! BUT once people took notice, DVD went nuts.

So... I believe it is both true that DVD took longer to initially adopt than VHS AND also true that it took over the market faster than VHS did.

Summarizing... VHS was adopted quicker as it had no opposition, DVD opposed VHS and it took a while to break-through... but once the breakthrough happened DVD penetrated the market much faster and more thoroughly than VHS did.

I hope that helps make my thoughts more clear and less conflicting with the sales data.

-- I like to go fast (not really)





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