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Guest Message by DevFuse

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Could these HD-DVD Titles... help close the gap?


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109 replies to this topic

#51 OFFLINE   Cholly

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Posted 02 August 2007 - 09:49 AM

No skin off my nose.

As for the facts Cholly, yours are just made up, totally not correct and trying to be skewed, so whose a fanboy, somebody who tells the truth or someone who lies to defend their inferior technology?


I suggest you read some articles in industry publications before you criticize other peoples' posts. Everything I said has come from industry websites, AVSForum, and newspaper or magazine articles. You should also note that I've NOT badmouthed Blu-ray Disc. In all probability, I'll buy a Blu-ray player when they are more affordable.
One of my sons has a PS/3 and complains bitterly about the fact that it doesn't come with a remote for playing Blu-ray Disc media (it's an aftermarket option :( ). This is the same kind of dumb thing that Microsoft did with the original XBox.

Amon37 -- I stand by my comment about publishers concentrating on the Wii and XBox 360 rather than the PS/3. Electronic Arts, for example, has postponed development/release of several titles. Once again, I got this information from several online sites -- not from Sony. By the way -- Dolby True HD is supported by both formats, and as you implied, a surround receiver with HDMI inputs and True HD decoder is required so you can appreciate the sound quality offered by that format.

Before you gents throw stones, check a little further.

Charlie
--------------------

Family Room: Samsung UN60F7100 60" LED 3D TV; Samsung  BD-H5900 3D Blu-Ray DVD player; Yamaha RX-V663 AVR. Paradigm speakers - Focus fronts, CC170 center, PDR-8 subwoofer, Atom surrounds, ADP rear center; TiVo Roamio Plus DVR, Toshiba HD-A3 HD DVD player.
Bedroom: Vizio 42" 3D TV, Pioneer VSX-521-K AVR, Panasonic 3D DVD player, Energy Take Classic 5.1 speakers, Roku 2 XD, TiVo Premiere, Insignia HD radio tuner, Toshiba HD DVD player


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#52 OFFLINE   machavez00

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Posted 02 August 2007 - 10:01 AM

Exactly, price doesn't hurt the PS3 because it is a far superior machine. It has a BUILT IN advanced Blu-ray Disc player which also upscales regular DVDs. What does the 360 have? A plain old DVD player. Oh wait you can get an add-on HD DVD players for $200, so how much does that make your non-even-yet comparable system? PS3 isn't just a gaming machine like the 360 is. What percentage of PS3 have had to be returned for repair? MS has said that perhaps ALL of their 360 are flawed, already 33% have failed in about a year or less of operation. You get what you pay for. How many game titles can you play at one time? Do people really buy 100 game titles? I think most people buy a handful of their favorites and rent the rest and there will be plenty of titles to keep PS3 users busy, but most probably didn't buy it to just play kid games, they bought it as a Blu-ray Disc player, web browser and AVCHD disc player, Mp3 player....etc.... If you just want to play last generation games and don't mind your cheaper player breaking down in a year, then get a 360. If you want next generation games, sold player with tons of other features, then you'll buy quality and a PS3. Call me a fanboy of PS3s and of Blu-rays, but they are just the better options, so I prefer to call myself an intelligent boy grounded in facts not hype.


One of my coworkers has both a PS3 and an XBox 360 with the HD DVD add on. In his opinion the Xbox is a better game console and HD movies look better on the 360 than they do on the PS3. Again his opinion, not mine. I don't play game enough to buy either one, and am averse to anything Microsquash.

#53 OFFLINE   harsh

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Posted 02 August 2007 - 10:18 AM

They're both niche formats like SACD and DVD-A.

In 3 years we will have dual-format players for $200 or less and think back humorously about this whole "format war".

Do such players exist for SACD and DVD-A? Did either format offer a clearly discernible difference versus CD?

Until such time as a full-featured dual format player is available at a price that isn't more than the cost of two full-featured standalone units, I think it unsafe to suggest that it will be the future.

#54 OFFLINE   RAD

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Posted 02 August 2007 - 10:27 AM

Do such players exist for SACD and DVD-A? Did either format offer a clearly discernible difference versus CD?

Yes, Pioneer had a combo SACD/DVD-A/DVD player, I got one at BB for $150 and they threw in two free SACD's. They really sounded great but the selection sucked, got tired of trying to find something I wanted to purchase again in one of the new formats, finally gave up and the player is sitting in a closet somewhere.

See post My Setup for configuration info.


#55 OFFLINE   DawgLink

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Posted 02 August 2007 - 11:25 AM

One of my coworkers has both a PS3 and an XBox 360 with the HD DVD add on. In his opinion the Xbox is a better game console and HD movies look better on the 360 than they do on the PS3. Again his opinion, not mine. I don't play game enough to buy either one, and am averse to anything Microsquash.


Right now, I don't think it is any question the 360 is and has been the best "Game Console" and in terms of variety...will be for another year. They have had more games out then any other console for their newer console and been doing a good job getting the games out to the market. I credit Microsoft for that. Big question rests on whether the 360 will last over/under 6-12 months before you get a RROD.

With that said, I find that my PS3 is a much better home-console for my DVD needs. That is just my opinion though. I think the Blu-Ray titles and others play perfectly on my 1080p TV.

It will be an interesting next 6 months in the video game world.

#56 OFFLINE   Cholly

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Posted 02 August 2007 - 11:29 AM

Update on audio streaming over HDMI from HDTV Magazine today:
http://www.hdtvmagaz...ef_dvd_-_au.php

If I read the article correctly, none of the current players support streamed Dolby Digital Plus pass through (the current crop isn't HDMI 1.3 compatible). However, they support DTS-HD. Further, to play Dolby Digital Plus, you have to have a surround receiver that has HDMI 1.3 input and decoder.
So, it's left to next generation players to support Dolby Digital Plus in all its glory.

Charlie
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Family Room: Samsung UN60F7100 60" LED 3D TV; Samsung  BD-H5900 3D Blu-Ray DVD player; Yamaha RX-V663 AVR. Paradigm speakers - Focus fronts, CC170 center, PDR-8 subwoofer, Atom surrounds, ADP rear center; TiVo Roamio Plus DVR, Toshiba HD-A3 HD DVD player.
Bedroom: Vizio 42" 3D TV, Pioneer VSX-521-K AVR, Panasonic 3D DVD player, Energy Take Classic 5.1 speakers, Roku 2 XD, TiVo Premiere, Insignia HD radio tuner, Toshiba HD DVD player


#57 OFFLINE   ebaltz

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Posted 02 August 2007 - 12:26 PM

I suggest you read some articles in industry publications before you criticize other peoples' posts. Everything I said has come from industry websites, AVSForum, and newspaper or magazine articles. You should also note that I've NOT badmouthed Blu-ray Disc. In all probability, I'll buy a Blu-ray player when they are more affordable.
One of my sons has a PS/3 and complains bitterly about the fact that it doesn't come with a remote for playing Blu-ray Disc media (it's an aftermarket option :( ). This is the same kind of dumb thing that Microsoft did with the original XBox.

Amon37 -- I stand by my comment about publishers concentrating on the Wii and XBox 360 rather than the PS/3. Electronic Arts, for example, has postponed development/release of several titles. Once again, I got this information from several online sites -- not from Sony. By the way -- Dolby True HD is supported by both formats, and as you implied, a surround receiver with HDMI inputs and True HD decoder is required so you can appreciate the sound quality offered by that format.

Before you gents throw stones, check a little further.




And where did these "facts" come from (please document):

"HD DVD can hold 45 Gigabytes -- only 5 less than Blu-ray Disc"


To my knowledge BD holds 50 (at present, in the works is a BD that holds 200+) and HD DVD holds 30. That would be 20GB less or 60% less. Gaming developers and studios are already claiming they are running up against the size limitations of HD DVD.

But lets drop the discussion for now, and return to it 1/1/2008 and see where things are. I'll bookmark this thread for then.
Dish HD w/ 1 Hopper and 3 Joey, PS3, Sony HN1000 Receiver and Sony Bravia HX800 3D TV

#58 OFFLINE   Stewart Vernon

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Posted 02 August 2007 - 12:38 PM

To my knowledge BD holds 50 (at present, in the works is a BD that holds 200+) and HD DVD holds 30. That would be 20GB less or 60% less.


Actually... I thought HD-DVD single layer was 15 GB. Then dual layer came out and held 30 GB. I thought triple layer was going to get to 45 GB, but have not heard if that is feasible or available yet.

Blu-Ray single layer is 25 GB for single layer, and 50 GB for dual layer. I am not sure if there is a triple layer Blu-Ray in the works.

FYI, I edited this post after researching Blu-Ray. I had originally posted Blu-Ray was 50 GB from the start, but realized I was incorrect after researching single vs dual layer.

End result... Blu-Ray has more capacity per layer than HD-DVD, though HD-DVD has tried to leap-frog and close the gap.

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#59 OFFLINE   msmith198025

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Posted 02 August 2007 - 02:20 PM

You just keep on dreaming. Blu-ray beats DVD-HD in every way possible, and anyone with a brain knows it. Let homeless people by the cheapo players at walmart and the rest of us enjoy the actual quality of Blu-ray and its superior format. In a year or so people will be asking what DVD-HD is. But you go ahead and enjoy your non-next gen format and your limited titles. The rest of us know the reality.


I have both and really the PQ is identical in both IMO. Really, being insulting doesnt help does it?

#60 OFFLINE   msmith198025

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Posted 02 August 2007 - 02:38 PM

Exactly, price doesn't hurt the PS3 because it is a far superior machine. It has a BUILT IN advanced Blu-ray Disc player which also upscales regular DVDs. What does the 360 have? A plain old DVD player. Oh wait you can get an add-on HD DVD players for $200, so how much does that make your non-even-yet comparable system? PS3 isn't just a gaming machine like the 360 is. What percentage of PS3 have had to be returned for repair? MS has said that perhaps ALL of their 360 are flawed, already 33% have failed in about a year or less of operation. You get what you pay for. How many game titles can you play at one time? Do people really buy 100 game titles? I think most people buy a handful of their favorites and rent the rest and there will be plenty of titles to keep PS3 users busy, but most probably didn't buy it to just play kid games, they bought it as a Blu-ray Disc player, web browser and AVCHD disc player, Mp3 player....etc.... If you just want to play last generation games and don't mind your cheaper player breaking down in a year, then get a 360. If you want next generation games, sold player with tons of other features, then you'll buy quality and a PS3. Call me a fanboy of PS3s and of Blu-rays, but they are just the better options, so I prefer to call myself an intelligent boy grounded in facts not hype.


While you may believe that you arent a fanboy, you come across as one.
Not trying to argue with ya, just thought you might want to know.:)

#61 OFFLINE   chopperjc

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Posted 02 August 2007 - 02:48 PM

While you may believe that you arent a fanboy, you come across as one.
Not trying to argue with ya, just thought you might want to know.:)


+1. I enjoy opinions and facts. I do not enjoy insults. It only hurts your argument.

#62 OFFLINE   Cholly

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Posted 02 August 2007 - 05:09 PM

Here's the info on Blu-ray Disc capacity: 25 GB single layer, 50 GB double layer. No mention of a 3 layer disc as yet. Note: this is not the official Blu-ray Disc Association web site. I've had trouble trying to load that site this evening. (blu-raydisc.com)
http://www.blu-ray.com/info/

Here's info on HD DVD specs:
http://www.thelookan...dofperfect.com/

And finally, here's Toshiba's press release, announcing a triple layer disk with up to 51 GB capacity.
http://www.toshiba.c...7_01/pr0801.htm

Interestingly, the double layer Blu-ray Disc can conceivably hold more data -- up to 200 GB in eight layers as proposed by Sony. See the following link:
http://www.emedialiv...cleid=11420#ivc

Regarding the Playstation 3: Sony admitted recently that PS 3 sales have been disappointing, with first quarter sales worldwide at 710,000.
http://www.shacknews...article.x/48157
Granted, Sony predicts they'll sell 11 million units by March, 2008 -- but based on performance to date, they'd have to have a huge holiday season.
Also, their prediction of sales of 250 million software titles is just that -- a prediction. That wold mean that the average PS 3 owner would have purchased over 22 PS 3 games. Highly unlikely.

Charlie
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Family Room: Samsung UN60F7100 60" LED 3D TV; Samsung  BD-H5900 3D Blu-Ray DVD player; Yamaha RX-V663 AVR. Paradigm speakers - Focus fronts, CC170 center, PDR-8 subwoofer, Atom surrounds, ADP rear center; TiVo Roamio Plus DVR, Toshiba HD-A3 HD DVD player.
Bedroom: Vizio 42" 3D TV, Pioneer VSX-521-K AVR, Panasonic 3D DVD player, Energy Take Classic 5.1 speakers, Roku 2 XD, TiVo Premiere, Insignia HD radio tuner, Toshiba HD DVD player


#63 OFFLINE   djlong

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Posted 03 August 2007 - 09:36 AM

Respectfully, I think you're missing the point..

Family titles drive sales the most. Are the most popular movies going to be available on the format of choice? Disney's Pirates trilogy, all their Pixar movies and, good grief, wait until they open the vaults.. All Blu-Ray. HD-DVD had a big chronological lead, getting their stuff out first but first doesn't mean you win (see Betamax).

So if you're looking for a high def player for that new rear-projection widescreen you bought at Wal-Mart (and more will be sold there than in the shops that cater to techies) what are you looking for? TITLES. What good does a $150 HD-DVD player do you if you can't get the titles you want? It's all about the *software*.

I originally thought there was no way that the HD-DVD camp could lose this 'war' but it certainly seems like they're doing that. Universal is the only holdout that doesn't produce Blu-Ray. If they see that Warner is making big bucks on both formats, why would Universal leave all that money on the table by not producing Blu-Ray. And if Universal starts pressing Blu-Ray, why would I ever want an HD-DVD player at ANY price?

#64 OFFLINE   ebaltz

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Posted 03 August 2007 - 09:55 AM

Respectfully, I think you're missing the point..

Family titles drive sales the most. Are the most popular movies going to be available on the format of choice? Disney's Pirates trilogy, all their Pixar movies and, good grief, wait until they open the vaults.. All Blu-Ray. HD-DVD had a big chronological lead, getting their stuff out first but first doesn't mean you win (see Betamax).

So if you're looking for a high def player for that new rear-projection widescreen you bought at Wal-Mart (and more will be sold there than in the shops that cater to techies) what are you looking for? TITLES. What good does a $150 HD-DVD player do you if you can't get the titles you want? It's all about the *software*.

I originally thought there was no way that the HD-DVD camp could lose this 'war' but it certainly seems like they're doing that. Universal is the only holdout that doesn't produce Blu-Ray. If they see that Warner is making big bucks on both formats, why would Universal leave all that money on the table by not producing Blu-Ray. And if Universal starts pressing Blu-Ray, why would I ever want an HD-DVD player at ANY price?



I totally agree. Disney titles are what will matter most. And Disney is Blu-ray
Dish HD w/ 1 Hopper and 3 Joey, PS3, Sony HN1000 Receiver and Sony Bravia HX800 3D TV

#65 OFFLINE   Cholly

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Posted 03 August 2007 - 12:43 PM

I totally agree. Disney titles are what will matter most. And Disney is Blu-ray


Here, we are in total agreement. :grin: Disney and Fox pretty much rule the roost when it comes to popular titles. MGM also is a big contributor.

If, indeed, there comes a time when only one of the two present formats survives, I believe it will be Blu-ray Disc. As I've said in prior posts, when Blu-ray players become more affordable, I'll probably get one.

Charlie
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Family Room: Samsung UN60F7100 60" LED 3D TV; Samsung  BD-H5900 3D Blu-Ray DVD player; Yamaha RX-V663 AVR. Paradigm speakers - Focus fronts, CC170 center, PDR-8 subwoofer, Atom surrounds, ADP rear center; TiVo Roamio Plus DVR, Toshiba HD-A3 HD DVD player.
Bedroom: Vizio 42" 3D TV, Pioneer VSX-521-K AVR, Panasonic 3D DVD player, Energy Take Classic 5.1 speakers, Roku 2 XD, TiVo Premiere, Insignia HD radio tuner, Toshiba HD DVD player


#66 OFFLINE   ebaltz

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Posted 03 August 2007 - 02:35 PM

Recent Nielson numbers show what's happening:

WEEK: BD-66% HDD-34%
YTD: BD-67% HDD-33%
SinceInception: BD-60% HDD-40%

2-1 for the year, my guess is 3-1 by Christmas.
Dish HD w/ 1 Hopper and 3 Joey, PS3, Sony HN1000 Receiver and Sony Bravia HX800 3D TV

#67 OFFLINE   Earl Bonovich

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Posted 03 August 2007 - 02:42 PM

Didn't Disney fully 100% support the DIVX platform?

While I am in 100% agreement that content (not necessarily the root technology), is what will drive the consumer market.

But for someone to enjoy that content.. the technology has to be availalble.
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#68 OFFLINE   Amon37

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Posted 03 August 2007 - 02:42 PM

Amon37 -- I stand by my comment about publishers concentrating on the Wii and XBox 360 rather than the PS/3. Electronic Arts, for example, has postponed development/release of several titles. Once again, I got this information from several online sites -- not from Sony.

Before you gents throw stones, check a little further.


There is no stone throwing happening, just a friendly debate. :D

EA currently has no titles announced for the 360 only and all EA titles are being released on the 360 and PS3 at the same time except for MOH:Airborne.

Rockstar has delayed GTA:IV for both systems

Capcom/Konami/ are releasing their Multi-platform titles at the same time.

On the flip side.

Epic is releasing UT3 on PS3 before the 360 version, Ubisoft is releasing HAZE on the PS3 before the 360 version.
Rockstar has confirmed that L.A. Noire is exclusive to the PS3.
There is talk that Bioshock is in development for the PS3.
Burnout Paradise has been developed with the PS3 as the lead platform.
Bizzare Creation has said the DVD-9 has limited what they can do with weather effects on PGR4 for the 360


With better development tools being released to devs. from Sony it is becoming less of a hassle to develop for the PS3.(which by the way has not even been out a year yet)

See what "Gems" the 360 had in it's first year of release, not much.

#69 OFFLINE   CCarncross

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Posted 05 August 2007 - 01:35 AM

There were lots of universal players. They could playback SACD, DVD-A, DVD-V, and CD. There are still several manufacturers making universal players. Both formats when done right, absolutely made the cds sound like 128k mp3s....plus add to th efact that a large percentage of them are/were in 5.1 surround. M/C high-res audio absolutely blows away cds.

#70 OFFLINE   CCarncross

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Posted 05 August 2007 - 01:45 AM

Well of course Disney backed BR -since its Sony. The other large piece of the pie noone seems to have commented on was Steve Hirsch and Vivid backed BR IIRC. Vivid back in the day also backed VHS and not BETA. Dont underestimate the effects of the porn industry on media..

#71 OFFLINE   cnmsales

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Posted 05 August 2007 - 09:26 AM

Completely false.




Actually this is somewhat true, more so in the WII market as publishers see the popularity of the console and the fact that they can develope two games for the price of one PS3 game.

#72 OFFLINE   Stewart Vernon

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Posted 05 August 2007 - 12:36 PM

Both formats when done right, absolutely made the cds sound like 128k mp3s...


You say this as if it was a good thing... but standard CD audio is something like 1400k bitrate. I don't know about SACD, but I have to think it is even higher since it is supposed to be of better quality.

If a format makes your CD sound like a 128k MP3, then that is a bad thing. MP3 can sound good by itself at certain levels, but with a side-by-side comparision to a CD it will produce noticable lack of quality.

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#73 OFFLINE   ebaltz

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Posted 06 August 2007 - 09:36 AM

Well of course Disney backed BR -since its Sony. The other large piece of the pie noone seems to have commented on was Steve Hirsch and Vivid backed BR IIRC. Vivid back in the day also backed VHS and not BETA. Dont underestimate the effects of the porn industry on media..


Its not going to matter this time because its freely available online this time around, whereas back in the VHS/Beta days, that was basically the only way people could get it. So don't over-estimate it.
Dish HD w/ 1 Hopper and 3 Joey, PS3, Sony HN1000 Receiver and Sony Bravia HX800 3D TV

#74 OFFLINE   ebaltz

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Posted 06 August 2007 - 09:39 AM

Actually this is somewhat true, more so in the WII market as publishers see the popularity of the console and the fact that they can develope two games for the price of one PS3 game.


Well I don't know anyone who owns a Wii, they take Wees, but don't own one. But virtually everyone I know either has a PS3 or an X-box 360, and none of the Wii games are every checked out from my local BB. Frankly its a toy, not a next generation media device like the PS3.
Dish HD w/ 1 Hopper and 3 Joey, PS3, Sony HN1000 Receiver and Sony Bravia HX800 3D TV

#75 OFFLINE   msmith198025

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Posted 06 August 2007 - 12:13 PM

Well I don't know anyone who owns a Wii, they take Wees, but don't own one. But virtually everyone I know either has a PS3 or an X-box 360, and none of the Wii games are every checked out from my local BB. Frankly its a toy, not a next generation media device like the PS3.


Must be a regional thing. I have all three and it is MUCH harder to get games for the Wii than ps3 or 360.
And sure the graphics arent as cutting edge, but the game play is much more so. And vastly more entertaining at this point. Im sure that will die down some as People get used to it, but for now its the one that i recommend they purchase. And thats not a knock on any of the systems, they all have strong points.




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