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Guest Message by DevFuse

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you have to be kidding me


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69 replies to this topic

#61 OFFLINE   Jeremy W

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Posted 30 July 2007 - 05:41 PM

45Mbits/sec, but still MPEG-2 encoded...

Yes, but that 45Mbps signal looks way better than what they're pumping out OTA.

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#62 OFFLINE   wilbur_the_goose

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Posted 30 July 2007 - 05:47 PM

I've been watching ESPN HD for about 2 hours on my HR20 - zero dropouts.

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#63 OFFLINE   Meklos

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Posted 30 July 2007 - 05:51 PM

Yes, but that 45Mbps signal looks way better than what they're pumping out OTA.


I'll have to call my local affiliate engineer and ask again, but I'm pretty sure that they feed the affiliates the max-OTA bitrate, not 45 Mbits/sec... There'd be no need to pay for the extra bandwidth. And either way, you're still going to end up with artifacts.

In any case, D* has been trying to pull the wool over people's eyes by saying that their MPEG-4-delivered locals (via sat) are going to somehow magically look better than the MPEG-2 encoded source.... and it just ain't so.

#64 OFFLINE   veryoldschool

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Posted 30 July 2007 - 06:03 PM

In any case, D* has been trying to pull the wool over people's eyes by saying that their MPEG-4-delivered locals (via sat) are going to somehow magically look better than the MPEG-2 encoded source.... and it just ain't so.

Where I am, MPEG-4 looks "almost" as good as my OTA MPEG-2, to the point that it is so close when I A/B the two, it doesn't matter [to me]. While in the same DMA, there is a users that was watching a basketball game and one of the player's dreadlocks look horrible in MPEG-4 verse OTA.
I'm sure this comes down to personal taste, but I don't care for dreadlocks much anyway.
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#65 OFFLINE   Meklos

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Posted 30 July 2007 - 06:21 PM

Where I am, MPEG-4 looks "almost" as good as my OTA MPEG-2, to the point that it is so close when I A/B the two, it doesn't matter [to me]. While in the same DMA, there is a users that was watching a basketball game and one of the player's dreadlocks look horrible in MPEG-4 verse OTA.
I'm sure this comes down to personal taste, but I don't care for dreadlocks much anyway.


Well, there are certain patterns (and sometimes even certain colors / color combinations) that end up looking horrible when put through a certain codec. They're sometimes called 'codec busters'. Each codec is different, but each has some idiosyncracy where it looks like crud. Today I saw something on one of the sports channels at lunch where one of the hosts had on a pin-striped suit. They went in for a closer shot on that guy exactly one time... and the output was so bad that they didn't do it again. Looked like it was vibrating.

And yes, it sometimes happens uncompressed, pre-codecs.

I see the breakups most often in my DMA when watching stuff that changes screen contrast very quickly. Full screen white followed by anything usually ends up in tiling and macroblocking, and even bright sections of the screen will break it up in that portion of the image.

#66 OFFLINE   veryoldschool

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Posted 30 July 2007 - 06:29 PM

Well, there are certain patterns (and sometimes even certain colors / color combinations) that end up looking horrible when put through a certain codec. They're sometimes called 'codec busters'. Each codec is different, but each has some idiosyncracy where it looks like crud. Today I saw something on one of the sports channels at lunch where one of the hosts had on a pin-striped suit. They went in for a closer shot on that guy exactly one time... and the output was so bad that they didn't do it again. Looked like it was vibrating.

And yes, it sometimes happens uncompressed, pre-codecs.

I see the breakups most often in my DMA when watching stuff that changes screen contrast very quickly. Full screen white followed by anything usually ends up in tiling and macroblocking, and even bright sections of the screen will break it up in that portion of the image.

24 on Fox last season had some fast camera pans that would drive me nuts as everything took too long to sync, but I don't know if it was my local station or not [as they are/can be crappy in their own right] .
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#67 OFFLINE   Jeremy W

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Posted 30 July 2007 - 10:43 PM

I'll have to call my local affiliate engineer and ask again, but I'm pretty sure that they feed the affiliates the max-OTA bitrate, not 45 Mbits/sec... There'd be no need to pay for the extra bandwidth.

The reason they do it is because the affiliates have to re-encode the signal to put in subchannels. It'll look a lot better if they're starting with 45mbps instead of 19mbps.

#68 OFFLINE   oenophile

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Posted 30 July 2007 - 11:55 PM

FWIW, I just watched ESPN 2's HD broadcast of the Los Angeles Galaxy soccer game (where Beckham played for the first time) and noticed the same 1 second drop outs described here. Never noticed that before. Looked to me like ESPN issue...

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#69 OFFLINE   Bathel

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Posted 30 August 2007 - 12:09 PM

I have the dropouts too, but if I 6 second skip back, the video magically is there.

Has anyone else tried to rewind and see if the video shows up the second time? This sounds more like a box issue if that's the case.

#70 OFFLINE   Jeremy W

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Posted 30 August 2007 - 04:01 PM

I have the dropouts too, but if I 6 second skip back, the video magically is there.

Has anyone else tried to rewind and see if the video shows up the second time? This sounds more like a box issue if that's the case.

What you're talking about is a box issue. It's completely separate from the ESPN HD dropouts that have been resolved.




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