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HR2x Wish List, V3


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1818 replies to this topic

#121 OFFLINE   Earl Bonovich

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Posted 17 August 2007 - 09:52 AM

Take the survey myself right now.... (First time in a long time)

This item:
"Uniquely number the HD version of a channel with an SD counterpart. "

Should probably be removed from the "HR20-WishList"
As it is not exclusive to the HR20... it involves the H20/21 also.
Earl - Gotta Love Karma

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All comments are my own. Unless specifically stated, my views do NOT represent the views of DIRECTV

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#122 OFFLINE   Steve

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Posted 17 August 2007 - 09:57 AM

Take the survey myself right now.... (First time in a long time)

This item:
"Uniquely number the HD version of a channel with an SD counterpart. "

Should probably be removed from the "HR20-WishList"
As it is not exclusive to the HR20... it involves the H20/21 also.

Point taken. I'll remove it.

Maybe users who wish to express this desire to D* could do so via a thread or POLL in the general CE forum? /s
/steve

#123 OFFLINE   Earl Bonovich

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Posted 17 August 2007 - 09:58 AM

Here is one to add to the list:

When in Mark and Delete;
When on the CHECKBOX, display the same description of the item/program that you do when highlighting the Title/Name.

Basically: Right now, if you are on the right side of the lists, you get a description up on top.... but when you are on the checkbox, you get instructions on how to use the screen....

To allow more rapid seleciton of items, that description shoudl be availble when you are on the checkbox.
Earl - Gotta Love Karma

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All comments are my own. Unless specifically stated, my views do NOT represent the views of DIRECTV

#124 OFFLINE   Sirshagg

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Posted 17 August 2007 - 09:59 AM

Me too. As I noted in the WHAT'S HOT, WHAT'S NOT post, I'm disappointed it's scoring so low, since it's an option that wouldn't change anything for the current GRID lovers.

If you haven't already done so, please take the survey to get it bumped up a bit! :)

/steve


Hold on just a second here! Tivo has two different types of guide. To the best of my knowledge one is called GRID and the other LIST.

This is the Tivo GRID guide
Posted Image

This is the Tivo LIST guide
Posted Image

The wording on the wishlist is:
OPTION for TiVo style GUIDE grid
That would be the first image shown above. Were you intending this to mean a guide like the second image? I stayed neutral on this vote becasue I could care less about having the Tivo grid guide; however, I'd give a BIG thumbs up to having the Tivo list guide.

If you did mean that you would like the HR20 to have a guide like the tivo Grid (first image) I'm genuinely curious to know why as I don't see it having a a major benefit over the HR20 grid guide.
Who is this "Vod Kanockers" that you speak of?

#125 OFFLINE   Stuart Sweet

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Posted 17 August 2007 - 10:00 AM

Point taken. I'll remove it.

Maybe users who wish to express this desire to D* could do so via a thread or POLL in the general CE forum? /s


There's a discussion on this right now in the HR20 forum:

http://www.dbstalk.c...ead.php?t=94923
Opinions expressed by me are my own and do not necessarily reflect
those of DBSTalk.com, DIRECTV, DISH, The Signal Group, or any other company.

#126 OFFLINE   Earl Bonovich

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Posted 17 August 2007 - 10:02 AM

Here is another:

Another Series Link Option:

Keep Action:
  • Remove Oldest (default)
  • Stop Recording

Basically: When you set a value to Keep At Most (to something other then All, but really when it is All it can be set too, just it will never "trip")

What action do you want to occur when you reach that "Keep at Most point".
Do you want it to delete the oldest and record the next episode found...
Do you want it to stop recording, until you manually reduce your list...

If you have it set to the "Stop Recording", future items can appear in your ToDo list with the "Conflict" icon, with the description:
"Will not record. Maximum Keep Items reached"
Earl - Gotta Love Karma

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All comments are my own. Unless specifically stated, my views do NOT represent the views of DIRECTV

#127 OFFLINE   Steve

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Posted 17 August 2007 - 10:11 AM

Here is another:

Another Series Link Option:

Keep Action:

  • Remove Oldest (default)
  • Stop Recording

Basically: When you set a value to Keep At Most (to something other then All, but really when it is All it can be set too, just it will never "trip")

What action do you want to occur when you reach that "Keep at Most point".
Do you want it to delete the oldest and record the next episode found...
Do you want it to stop recording, until you manually reduce your list...

If you have it set to the "Stop Recording", future items can appear in your ToDo list with the "Conflict" icon, with the description:
"Will not record. Maximum Keep Items reached"

Actually on this one, we determined in another thread that if, unlike today, the HR20 will NEVER delete a recording that is marked as KEPT (either manually or via KUID), then these two options cover just about any situation:

Keep at Most = N
Keep Until I Delete

Keep at Most = N
Keep Until Disk Full

That being said, your "Will not record. Maximum Keep Items reached" icon idea for the ToDo list is a fantastic one, IMO. No reason D* still couldn't provide us this notification, since it will always know when this situation arises, even with the suggestion we have currently on the list. I'll add this to its HELP balloon.

So this request: "Items marked as "KEEP UNTIL I DELETE", either manually or via a SERIES LINK, should NEVER be deleted and should count against the "KEEP AT MOST" total." now has a HELP balloon that reads as follows: When a show will not be recorded because the "Keep Until I Delete" number is equal to the "Keep At Most" number, it should be flagged in the ToDo list, similar to the way other conflicts are currently flagged. /s
/steve

#128 OFFLINE   Earl Bonovich

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Posted 17 August 2007 - 10:54 AM

Actually on this one, we determined in another thread that if, unlike today, the HR20 will NEVER delete a recording that is marked as KEPT (either manually or via KUID), then these two options cover just about any situation:

Keep at Most = N
Keep Until I Delete

Keep at Most = N
Keep Until Disk Full

That being said, your "Will not record. Maximum Keep Items reached" icon idea for the ToDo list is a fantastic one, IMO. No reason D* still couldn't provide us this notification, since it will always know when this situation arises, even with the suggestion we have currently on the list. I'll add this to its HELP balloon.

So this request: "Items marked as "KEEP UNTIL I DELETE", either manually or via a SERIES LINK, should NEVER be deleted and should count against the "KEEP AT MOST" total." now has a HELP balloon that reads as follows: When a show will not be recorded because the "Keep Until I Delete" number is equal to the "Keep At Most" number, it should be flagged in the ToDo list, similar to the way other conflicts are currently flagged. /s



I must have missed that thread then....


As if you set/unset the KUID flag via the blue button for a recorded show, it removes it from the Keep Total Calculations

I truely think the Keep Until I Delete, should 100% always should related to hard drive space....

That the Keep At Most / Episodes to Record, should be independent of that.

Basically the Keep Until I Delete option, would be 100% an option to pre-add the KUID indicator to the recording after it is done recording via the link.

The Keep At Most logic, would look at the folder and see how many recordings you have, if you have reached the limit... then follow the option that you have set (delete the oldest, regardless of KUID setting, or stop recording)



With TiVo's way of doing it.....
If you haven't got around to watching 24 for 7 weeks....

You would have the first 5, but won't have the latest 2... which IMHO, is much more critical to "catching back up" to a serial based show like that.... as what happened 7 weeks ago, may have no baring on "next weeks" show.
Earl - Gotta Love Karma

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All comments are my own. Unless specifically stated, my views do NOT represent the views of DIRECTV

#129 OFFLINE   Steve

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Posted 17 August 2007 - 10:58 AM

The following items have been recently added to the Wish List for the week of 8/12/07. If you've either voted in the past or haven't voted yet at all, please visit the Wish List survey page and let us know how you value these new items, along with all the others. TIA. :)
  • OPTION to turn on the SCREENSAVER when listening to music over the network.
  • Ability to review recently expired program information in the Guide.
  • Items marked as "KEEP UNTIL I DELETE", either manually or via a SERIES LINK, should NEVER be deleted and should count against the "KEEP AT MOST" total.
  • Ability to "MARK & PLAY" a set of recordings, in the order in which they are selected.

/steve
/steve

#130 OFFLINE   Steve

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Posted 17 August 2007 - 11:43 AM

I must have missed that thread then....


As if you set/unset the KUID flag via the blue button for a recorded show, it removes it from the Keep Total Calculations

I truely think the Keep Until I Delete, should 100% always should related to hard drive space....

That the Keep At Most / Episodes to Record, should be independent of that.

Basically the Keep Until I Delete option, would be 100% an option to pre-add the KUID indicator to the recording after it is done recording via the link.

The Keep At Most logic, would look at the folder and see how many recordings you have, if you have reached the limit... then follow the option that you have set (delete the oldest, regardless of KUID setting, or stop recording)



With TiVo's way of doing it.....
If you haven't got around to watching 24 for 7 weeks....

You would have the first 5, but won't have the latest 2... which IMHO, is much more critical to "catching back up" to a serial based show like that.... as what happened 7 weeks ago, may have no baring on "next weeks" show.

Sorry. Should have posted this link: http://www.dbstalk.c...ead.php?t=94609

Sounds like by your 24 example, you're troubled by the one situation DogLover mentioned that's not covered above by the TiVo way. I.e., KAM=5/KUID will always keep the 5 OLDEST episodes of a series, and you want it to keep the 5 NEWEST, but if you don't set the KUID flag, there's a chance a show may get deleted because the disk filled-up before you get a chance to watch it.

That's one of the reasons we have another request on the list to add "10 shows" as a "KEEP AT MOST" option, but since your "limit reached" proposal also addresses this, we can put it on the list as well.

So how about this wording?

New SERIES LINK OPTION to either "STOP RECORDING" or "DELETE OLDEST" when the number of shows tagged "KEEP UNTIL I DELETE" equals the "KEEP AT MOST" number.

If folks think this request overlaps the existing request too much, we may be able to combine them.

/steve
/steve

#131 OFFLINE   Earl Bonovich

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Posted 17 August 2007 - 12:08 PM

Even at 10, the problem will still exist...
And what if I am not around to get that message.


I think the KUID, should simply be changed... to seperate it completely from the KAM settings...

It should 100% be related to drive space...
KAM should have the extra setting to denote what you want done when that limit is reached.


Also... that option that was added, is incorrect...
As it does work as "interpretted" when you add the KUID manually.
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All comments are my own. Unless specifically stated, my views do NOT represent the views of DIRECTV

#132 OFFLINE   Steve

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Posted 17 August 2007 - 12:28 PM

Even at 10, the problem will still exist...
And what if I am not around to get that message.

How far is D* supposed to go to protect a user from him or herself? Some solutions can't ever be 100% perfect.

It should 100% be related to drive space...

Then it shouldn't be called "Keep until I Delete", IMO, because that implies you have control over deletion, not the HR20. Customer service issue.

KAM should have the extra setting to denote what you want done when that limit is reached.

Agree. Good idea, IMO :)

Also... that option that was added, is incorrect...
As it does work as "interpretted" when you add the KUID manually.

More user confusion. Works one way with the BLUE button, another with the KUID setting. Hence the origin of the WL suggestion to just make it work just like TiVo. It's a proven method that's been working for the TiVo crowd for a few years. The one thing it doesn't cover can be covered by your Limit Exceeded idea, IMO.

Just my .02. Others, please chime in. /s
/steve

#133 OFFLINE   Earl Bonovich

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Posted 17 August 2007 - 12:36 PM

How far is D* supposed to go to protect a user from him or herself? Some solutions can't ever be 100% perfect.

Then it shouldn't be called "Keep until I Delete", IMO, because that implies you have control over deletion, not the HR20. Customer service issue.

Agree. Good idea, IMO :)

More user confusion. Works one way with the BLUE button, another with the KUID setting. Hence the origin of the WL suggestion to just make it work just like TiVo. It's a proven method that's been working for the TiVo crowd for a few years. The one thing it doesn't cover can be covered by your Limit Exceeded idea, IMO.

Just my .02. Others, please chime in. /s


IMHO: As proven by TiVo, is the problem there.
TiVo's way violates one of it's own statements.

Because IMHO: It doesn't work in TiVo's implementation (as see my example with 24 and other shows).

I "TOLD" the unit in the Series Pass/Link, to record new episodes.
So if it stopped recording at 5, then it didn't do what I told it to do with that statement....

So the debate is... which statement has the priority over the other:
Keep it Until "I" Delete it.... or Record the New Episode... which one?

KUID should be totally re-worded so it is clear, that it ONLY relates to automatic deletion due to hard drive space... (and the functionality completely in all cases applies to that fact).

It should be severed from any calculations that KAM uses, and should be independent... and should thus only be looked at by the automatic deletion logic (and excluded) when the functionality is run to clear space for future recordings.

And you are correct, that you can go only so far to protect users... but right now you have cases, that can not be settled by the current options.

You have to go 5 or ALL... but just because 10 is a larger number, what about 15, 30, ect... (I have seen those requests in TiVo land, and here)..
Earl - Gotta Love Karma

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All comments are my own. Unless specifically stated, my views do NOT represent the views of DIRECTV

#134 OFFLINE   Sirshagg

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Posted 17 August 2007 - 12:40 PM

I can definitely see Earl's point but agree with you that there is only so mush they can/should do to protect a user from themselves.

There should be an option to keep 10 episodes.

And "keep until I delete" MUST be renamed if something can be deleted by the system.
Who is this "Vod Kanockers" that you speak of?

#135 OFFLINE   Steve

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Posted 17 August 2007 - 12:51 PM

IMHO: As proven by TiVo, is the problem there.
TiVo's way violates one of it's own statements.

Because IMHO: It doesn't work in TiVo's implementation (as see my example with 24 and other shows).

I "TOLD" the unit in the Series Pass/Link, to record new episodes.
So if it stopped recording at 5, then it didn't do what I told it to do with that statement....

So the debate is... which statement has the priority over the other:
Keep it Until "I" Delete it.... or Record the New Episode... which one?

KUID should be totally re-worded so it is clear, that it ONLY relates to automatic deletion due to hard drive space... (and the functionality completely in all cases applies to that fact).

It should be severed from any calculations that KAM uses, and should be independent... and should thus only be looked at by the automatic deletion logic (and excluded) when the functionality is run to clear space for future recordings.

And you are correct, that you can go only so far to protect users... but right now you have cases, that can not be settled by the current options.

You have to go 5 or ALL... but just because 10 is a larger number, what about 15, 30, ect... (I have seen those requests in TiVo land, and here)..


Maybe the solution is this?

KEEP AT MOST: 1/2/5/10/ALL
WHEN LIMIT REACHED: STOP RECORDING, DELETE OLDEST
OTHERWISE: KEEP UNTIL DISK FULL / KEEP UNTIL I DELETE

and:

BLUE BUTTON ACTION = KEEP UNTIL I DELETE and does not count against totals.

Would these options cover all situations? Just a thought. /s
/steve

#136 OFFLINE   Earl Bonovich

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Posted 17 August 2007 - 01:02 PM

Maybe the solution is this?

KEEP AT MOST: 1/2/5/10/ALL
WHEN LIMIT REACHED: STOP RECORDING, DELETE OLDEST
OTHERWISE: KEEP UNTIL DISK FULL / KEEP UNTIL I DELETE

and:

BLUE BUTTON ACTION = KEEP UNTIL I DELETE and does not count against totals.

Would these options cover all instances? Just a thought. /s


I am thinking more like:

Record: First Run / Repeat / Both (default)
Keep at Most: 1 / 2 / 3 / 4 / 5 (default) / 10 / ALL
Limit Reached: Delete Oldest (default) / Stop Recording

Auto-Deleltion Due to Disk Space: Yes, No


Blue Button Action - Would relate to Auto-Deletion due to Disk Space toggle.
No tie at all to KAM.

I think the KUID terminology should be completely droped, to avoid ANY confusion with TiVo's implementation of it.
Earl - Gotta Love Karma

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All comments are my own. Unless specifically stated, my views do NOT represent the views of DIRECTV

#137 OFFLINE   Steve

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Posted 17 August 2007 - 01:11 PM

I am thinking more like:

Record: First Run / Repeat / Both (default)
Keep at Most: 1 / 2 / 3 / 4 / 5 (default) / 10 / ALL
Limit Reached: Delete Oldest (default) / Stop Recording

Auto-Deleltion Due to Disk Space: Yes, No


Blue Button Action - Would relate to Auto-Deletion due to Disk Space toggle.
No tie at all to KAM.

I think the KUID terminology should be completely droped, to avoid ANY confusion with TiVo's implementation of it.

I think we're almost there. Get rid of the KUID terminology, and just make the BLUE button a KEEP button. I agree with the DEFAULT settings you chose, and would probably make AUTO DELETION default to "YES" as well.

What happens if you BLUE BUTTON a single recording that is not part of a SERIES LINK, though... when there's no AUTO DELETION SETTING to refer to? Might be just simpler for BLUE BUTTON "keeps" to stay on disk, outside the KAM #. I think users would expect that. /steve
/steve

#138 OFFLINE   Earl Bonovich

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Posted 17 August 2007 - 01:16 PM

What happens if you BLUE BUTTON a single recording that is not part of a SERIES LINK, though... when there's no AUTO DELETION SETTING to refer to? Might be just simpler for BLUE BUTTON "keeps" to stay outside the KAM #. I think users would get that. /steve


The "Keep" button/option should not have any bearing in any usage of it, to KAM... be it single or series recording.

The Keep option is the Series Link, would be more of a "pre-select" to not have to require the user to keep going into the recording to add-it.
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All comments are my own. Unless specifically stated, my views do NOT represent the views of DIRECTV

#139 OFFLINE   Steve

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Posted 17 August 2007 - 01:19 PM

The "Keep" button/option should not have any bearing in any usage of it, to KAM... be it single or series recording.

The Keep option is the Series Link, would be more of a "pre-select" to not have to require the user to keep going into the recording to add-it.

So the BLUE BUTTON keep means "do not autodelete for disk space needs" and "don't count against the KAM #". I like that, if that's what you're saying. /s
/steve

#140 OFFLINE   Steve

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Posted 17 August 2007 - 01:40 PM

Thanks to some constructive "back and forth" on this issue, I think we've finally come up with a couple of WISH LIST proposals that cover how recordings on disk can be managed in a way that covers 100% of the situations that may arise. Default settings are shown in GREEN.

New SERIES LINK recording options. RECORD: First Run/Repeat/Both; KEEP AT MOST: 1/2/3/4/5/10/ALL; WHEN LIMIT REACHED: Delete Oldest/Stop Recording; AUTO DELETE WHEN DISK FULL?: Yes/No

and:

A recording marked "KEEP" via the BLUE BUTTON should never be auto-deleted to free disk space and should not count against a SERIES LINK's "KEEP AT MOST" limit.

Does anyone see a situation that may not be covered by these suggestions? Or any problems that implementing them might create? If not, I will update the Wish List later today.

These items will replace both "Increase the number of episodes of a SERIES LINK to keep. "1,2,3,5,10, ALL" and "Items marked as "KEEP UNTIL I DELETE", either manually or via a SERIES LINK, should NEVER be deleted and should count against the "KEEP AT MOST" total."

/steve
/steve




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