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Guest Message by DevFuse

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Best Pillar Box Color to Avoid Burn in?


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26 replies to this topic

#1 OFFLINE   noneroy

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Posted 07 August 2007 - 02:24 PM

I've gone back and forth with this. I cannot stand 4:3 pictures stretched out to 16:9 even though stretching would reduce the burn-in risk. I already have a touch of it on my 55" Rear Projection TV and I'm looking to avoid getting more for the next year until I can get rid of this and get a new TV.

So of the choices, which would be best? Black, dark grey, or grey? I've been using black and that's what has given me a little burn in so far.....i'm wondering if the greys would be any better.

Also, is there a way to fix burn in or is the TV just shot?

Again, it's not that bad. The woman doesn't notice it, but I can sometimes.....any thoughts on this would be great.

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#2 ONLINE   tonyd79

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Posted 07 August 2007 - 03:16 PM

Burn in on an RPTV? Sure it is not just image rentention? Watch some full screen stuff and see if it goes away.
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#3 OFFLINE   Radio Enginerd

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Posted 07 August 2007 - 03:19 PM

Burn in on an RPTV? Sure it is not just image rentention? Watch some full screen stuff and see if it goes away.


To add to Tony. If burn in or image retention is a concern on your TV, using grey bars is better then black bars.

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#4 OFFLINE   davring

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Posted 07 August 2007 - 03:20 PM

I've gone back and forth with this. I cannot stand 4:3 pictures stretched out to 16:9 even though stretching would reduce the burn-in risk. I already have a touch of it on my 55" Rear Projection TV and I'm looking to avoid getting more for the next year until I can get rid of this and get a new TV.

So of the choices, which would be best? Black, dark grey, or grey? I've been using black and that's what has given me a little burn in so far.....i'm wondering if the greys would be any better.

Also, is there a way to fix burn in or is the TV just shot?

Again, it's not that bad. The woman doesn't notice it, but I can sometimes.....any thoughts on this would be great.


I assume it is a CRT RPTV, if so grey should be best.
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#5 OFFLINE   Coffey77

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Posted 07 August 2007 - 03:38 PM

I agree, Grey or Dark Grey. I personally use Dark Grey. Black bars will actually cause a different kind of issue, I believe it's a "lazy" pixel or something like that. You'll see vertical lines where the pillars were when you switch over to an HD content channel.
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#6 OFFLINE   Stuart Sweet

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Posted 07 August 2007 - 04:22 PM

Yes, black pillars can cause issues with LCD, DLP or LCoS TV's, but only after really prolonged use and it is reversible.
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#7 OFFLINE   cygnusloop

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Posted 07 August 2007 - 05:41 PM

Yes, black pillars can cause issues with LCD, DLP or LCoS TV's, but only after really prolonged use and it is reversible.


Don't know for sure about LCD or LCoS, Shadow, but there is nothing to burn in, or to retain an image on a (traditional color wheel) DLP, just a light bulb, tiny little mirrors and a spinning color wheel. In fact, my TV has no option to change the pillars from the default black. (Of course the HR20 has these options.)

One of the reasons I chose a DLP was that there is no risk of burn in (or out, except for the bulb, of course :) ).

#8 OFFLINE   bwaldron

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Posted 07 August 2007 - 06:28 PM

I assume it is a CRT RPTV, if so grey should be best.


Agreed. Same for plasma. The grey best approximates the average brightness of program content.

It never hurts to be careful, but the possibility of burn in on modern displays is highly exaggerated by some folks. On plasmas, people see some (normal) temporary image retention and just freak out. Once a set has a reasonable number of hours on it, it really takes abuse to get true burn in. I stopped worrying about it long ago.

(On this subject, the HR20 still has a bug where it shows thin black bars on each side of the pillars when they are set to grey. If worried about burn-in, that's not a good thing...plus it's kinda ugly. Until that is fixed, it might be better to run in native mode (w/ the HR20 set to stretch) and use the TV's controls to do the 4:3 "pillaring.")

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#9 OFFLINE   braven

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Posted 07 August 2007 - 07:41 PM

I've just learned to deal with a stretched 4:3 picture. I'd hate to ruin my RPTV CRT with screen burn in.
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#10 OFFLINE   Stuart Sweet

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Posted 07 August 2007 - 07:47 PM

Don't know for sure about LCD or LCoS, Shadow, but there is nothing to burn in, or to retain an image on a (traditional color wheel) DLP, just a light bulb, tiny little mirrors and a spinning color wheel. In fact, my TV has no option to change the pillars from the default black. (Of course the HR20 has these options.)

One of the reasons I chose a DLP was that there is no risk of burn in (or out, except for the bulb, of course :) ).


Agreed that there is no burn in, but on a DLP there is a chance of one of the micromirrors having a problem. It is rare and reversible, that's my point.
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#11 OFFLINE   cygnusloop

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Posted 07 August 2007 - 08:10 PM

Agreed that there is no burn in, but on a DLP there is a chance of one of the micromirrors having a problem. It is rare and reversible, that's my point.


Wow. I hadn't heard that. One of the things I love about this forum, you can learn something new every day.

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#12 OFFLINE   cygnusloop

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Posted 07 August 2007 - 08:24 PM

(On this subject, the HR20 still has a bug where it shows thin black bars on each side of the pillars when they are set to grey.


Yeah, it's pretty annoying, although I would characterize it as more of a design flaw than a bug, (but I certainly don't want to get in to that semantic argument going on in another thread).

I believe what is happening there is that in pillar bar mode, the HR20 just appends 40 pixel wide bars on to the 640x480 SD frame to fill out the 720x480 widescreen frame, instead of creating some pillars that have some overscan on the the SD frame. The thin black bar is just part of the 640 wide frame generated at the broadcasting station. The way they are, the HR20 pillars are just about useless to me.

I agree the best workaround for that is to use native=on and at least one SD and one HD resolution selected, and format set to stretch. Most HDTV's will remember the last format setting used per resolution, so there's no extra reaching for the remote.

#13 OFFLINE   TriggerDeems

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Posted 07 August 2007 - 08:42 PM

Yeah, it's pretty annoying, although I would characterize it as more of a design flaw than a bug, (but I certainly don't want to get in to that semantic argument going on in another thread).

I believe what is happening there is that in pillar bar mode, the HR20 just appends 40 pixel wide bars on to the 640x480 SD frame to fill out the 720x480 widescreen frame, instead of creating some pillars that have some overscan on the the SD frame. The thin black bar is just part of the 640 wide frame generated at the broadcasting station. The way they are, the HR20 pillars are just about useless to me.

I agree the best workaround for that is to use native=on and at least one SD and one HD resolution selected, and format set to stretch. Most HDTV's will remember the last format setting used per resolution, so there's no extra reaching for the remote.


Great idea, thanks. Now, if there was just a solution for the HD channels that broadcast the black bars, disregarding the gray choice in the receiver.
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#14 OFFLINE   armophob

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Posted 07 August 2007 - 08:45 PM

Stretch it out. I cannot stand having a little screen inside a big one.

#15 OFFLINE   bwaldron

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Posted 07 August 2007 - 10:46 PM

Stretch it out. I cannot stand having a little screen inside a big one.


For casual/background viewing, I do tend to use a stretched picture (Panasonic's "just" mode). For other viewing, I tend to want to watch things in the original aspect ratio. Especially with sports, stretching the often poor SD picture makes things even worse.

And heck, that "little" screen is quite a bit bigger than most of the TV's I've owned in my lifetime ;)

But -- as always -- people should use what looks the best to them.

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#16 OFFLINE   bwaldron

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Posted 07 August 2007 - 10:49 PM

Great idea, thanks. Now, if there was just a solution for the HD channels that broadcast the black bars, disregarding the gray choice in the receiver.


Some TV's do provide that function with HD channels. One of mine does, the older doesn't.

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#17 OFFLINE   bwaldron

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Posted 07 August 2007 - 10:51 PM

Thanks for the explanation. Bug or design feature, it's still annoying and kinda defeats the purpose of user-selectable pillar colors. Thankfully, the HR20 allows native mode (a major plus over the HR10 IMHO) and it's pretty much a non-issue for me.

Yeah, it's pretty annoying, although I would characterize it as more of a design flaw than a bug, (but I certainly don't want to get in to that semantic argument going on in another thread).

I believe what is happening there is that in pillar bar mode, the HR20 just appends 40 pixel wide bars on to the 640x480 SD frame to fill out the 720x480 widescreen frame, instead of creating some pillars that have some overscan on the the SD frame. The thin black bar is just part of the 640 wide frame generated at the broadcasting station. The way they are, the HR20 pillars are just about useless to me.

I agree the best workaround for that is to use native=on and at least one SD and one HD resolution selected, and format set to stretch. Most HDTV's will remember the last format setting used per resolution, so there's no extra reaching for the remote.


HR23-700 --> Samsung UN65F6350AF LCD
HR23-700 --> JVC JLC47BC3002 LCD
H24-200 -->
Panasonic TH-50PX60U plasma


#18 OFFLINE   noneroy

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Posted 08 August 2007 - 06:15 AM

Thanks guys for your thoughts on this. I might be image retention, but I've heard that actually goes away after a while, this seems to stick around even when I watch HD shows. You can see where the bars were on the sides, esp. when the HD program has lots of light colors...which is what makes me think it's burn-in. I believe this is a CRT rear projection. (55" Mitsubishi RPTV).

Thankfully, I got the extended warranty when I bought it, so I have a tech coming out next week. However, the responses I've gotten in here have been, as always, very helpful. Thanks!

#19 OFFLINE   joed32

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Posted 08 August 2007 - 10:25 AM

Thanks guys for your thoughts on this. I might be image retention, but I've heard that actually goes away after a while, this seems to stick around even when I watch HD shows. You can see where the bars were on the sides, esp. when the HD program has lots of light colors...which is what makes me think it's burn-in. I believe this is a CRT rear projection. (55" Mitsubishi RPTV).

Thankfully, I got the extended warranty when I bought it, so I have a tech coming out next week. However, the responses I've gotten in here have been, as always, very helpful. Thanks!


I have a 55" Mits CRT RPTV and they are subject to burn in, which is not covered by the extended warranty. I don't like stretch either but it is the only way to keep these safe. Added a DLP a couple of years ago a 62" Mits and the CRT still has a better picture than the new one. The tech may have a few tricks that can help you try to reverse your problem.

#20 OFFLINE   Charise

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Posted 08 August 2007 - 11:00 AM

If the tech does have some tips to help reduce the burn-in, please share them. I have some burn-in showing on my rear projection monitor, and I haven't heard of anything to reduce it.

Thanks in advance!




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