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Guest Message by DevFuse

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Comparing the HR10-250, HR20-100/700, HR21-700 and ViP622/722


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202 replies to this topic

#1 OFFLINE   tfederov

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Posted 18 August 2007 - 04:39 PM

I haven't found an all-encompassing doc trying to compare DVRs so I thought I'd take a shot. If you guys have stuff that needs adding or correcting, by all means I'm all ears. I just thought this would be helpful for those new to the satellite HD DVR world.

Added 11/12 (v16): Tons of updates, too many to mention. Special thanks to those that helped with this update!

Attached Files


- Tony

SWiM16, H21-100, H23-600, H21-700 w/AM21, HR24-500, HR24-100 w/AM21, (3) HR20-700
All receivers networked via DECA
MediaShare using TVersity on Win 7 VM over Mac Snow Leopard

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#2 OFFLINE   Michael D'Angelo

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Posted 18 August 2007 - 04:40 PM

Nice work Tony.

The -700 does not have a digital coaxial.

#3 OFFLINE   Michael D'Angelo

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Posted 18 August 2007 - 04:44 PM

You should also add in stuff about the remote. Like IR and RF. RF antenna internal for -700 and external for -100.

#4 OFFLINE   Michael D'Angelo

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Posted 18 August 2007 - 04:49 PM

You may also want to add in that you do not need a phone line for software updates on the HR20's. I have been seeing that asked a lot lately.

#5 OFFLINE   vegasflyby

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Posted 18 August 2007 - 04:50 PM

Nice work. How about digital coax. I think the hr20-100 is the only one that has it.
Hate the 50 SL limit? Call (800-DIRECTV) or write Directv to let them know and join the discussion here.

#6 OFFLINE   tfederov

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Posted 18 August 2007 - 05:01 PM

Fixed the coax on the -700. Copy and paste can be mean at times. :D
- Tony

SWiM16, H21-100, H23-600, H21-700 w/AM21, HR24-500, HR24-100 w/AM21, (3) HR20-700
All receivers networked via DECA
MediaShare using TVersity on Win 7 VM over Mac Snow Leopard

#7 OFFLINE   tfederov

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Posted 18 August 2007 - 05:01 PM

You should also add in stuff about the remote. Like IR and RF. RF antenna internal for -700 and external for -100.


I can make that fix. I'll have to do it later though, going out for dinner tonight.
- Tony

SWiM16, H21-100, H23-600, H21-700 w/AM21, HR24-500, HR24-100 w/AM21, (3) HR20-700
All receivers networked via DECA
MediaShare using TVersity on Win 7 VM over Mac Snow Leopard

#8 OFFLINE   Michael D'Angelo

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Posted 18 August 2007 - 05:02 PM

I can make that fix. I'll have to do it later though, going out for dinner tonight.


No problem. I just want to say thanks for doing this for us.

#9 OFFLINE   Milominderbinder2

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Posted 18 August 2007 - 07:50 PM

Great work!

How about these...

There should be a line for maximum HD Channels:
HR10 - 10
HR20 - 150* year-end 2008

The most important reason for buying a receiver is not the receiver, it is the content.

The HR10 has a working Autorecord. It can Autorecord all of the Cubs games for instance. The HR20 cannot. The reason is that the HR10 has a working CIR and the HR20 does not.

A second item is CIR by itself.

How fast is the maximum Fast Forward Speed? The HR20 is 90x. That is huge. Is the HR10 only 40x?

Does the HR10 have the Jump to tick feature? The HR20's Jump is like 300x.

Maybe mention CLOSED CAPTIONING, DOLBY® SOUND Dolby 5.1 Surround Sound, MINI GUIDE

Can the HR10 do a search for a keyword that had has a special character?
The HR20 can search for a keyword of “CSI NY”. Can the HR10?

WHAT'S HOT - Is real-time, interactive ratings. Choose from the hottest 50 shows at this instant! Can the HR10 do that?

Soft Padding - Is automatic in the HR20. If you extend a first show a few minutes longer and start the next show a few minutes early - on two channels. Does the HR10 have soft padding?

Again,

#10 OFFLINE   Milominderbinder2

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Posted 18 August 2007 - 08:07 PM

How about highlighting the differences?

A sample is attached.

- Craig

edit: attachment removed. New version posted later.

#11 OFFLINE   Milominderbinder2

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Posted 18 August 2007 - 08:26 PM

Again, love the fact that you are doing this.

I just don't know enough about the HR10. These are missing features on the HR20. Does the HR10 have these features?

The HR20 cannot do a Title Search Autorecord as noted in the manual on pp. 20 & 31 & release notes for 0x115, 0x119, & 0x11b. Can the HR10 do a Title Search Autorecord?

Can the HR10 edit "all the programs" in the Prioritizer (even when there are no upcoming episodes). The HR20 is supposed to per page p. 28 but does not.

Does the HR10 have OTA Scan? The HR20 is supposed to: "Select the Scan for Channels button to have the receiver scan local off-air frequencies" p. 78

Does the HR10 have Screen Centering? The HR20 is supposed to per page 28: Enable Setup>Display>Screen Centering.

Will the HR10 be able to show DIRECTV On Demand?

The HR20 cannot show "...home videos on their TVs directly from Intel® Viiv™ [PCs]" Can the HR10? Is it even promised?

For eSATA Cord you add "eSATA (Ext. Hard Drive)" so it is clear what that means?

Remote programmability is promised for the HR20. Can the HR10 do it? Is it promised?

MRV Multi room Viewing is promised for the HR20. Can the HR10 do it? Is it promised?

- Craig

#12 OFFLINE   tfederov

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Posted 18 August 2007 - 09:23 PM

Again, love the fact that you are doing this.

I just don't know enough about the HR10. These are missing features on the HR20. Does the HR10 have these features?

The HR20 cannot do a Title Search Autorecord as noted in the manual on pp. 20 & 31 & release notes for 0x115, 0x119, & 0x11b. Can the HR10 do a Title Search Autorecord?

Can the HR10 edit "all the programs" in the Prioritizer (even when there are no upcoming episodes). The HR20 is supposed to per page p. 28 but does not.

Does the HR10 have OTA Scan? The HR20 is supposed to: "Select the Scan for Channels button to have the receiver scan local off-air frequencies" p. 78

Does the HR10 have Screen Centering? The HR20 is supposed to per page 28: Enable Setup>Display>Screen Centering.

Will the HR10 be able to show DIRECTV On Demand?

The HR20 cannot show "...home videos on their TVs directly from Intel® Viiv™ [PCs]" Can the HR10? Is it even promised?

For eSATA Cord you add "eSATA (Ext. Hard Drive)" so it is clear what that means?

Remote programmability is promised for the HR20. Can the HR10 do it? Is it promised?

MRV Multi room Viewing is promised for the HR20. Can the HR10 do it? Is it promised?

- Craig



Wow Craig... three posts... I don't know where to start replying!! :D

Starting with the first response, I think the fact that MPEG-4 is mentioned as HD content, that should be enough but I see your point so that is a good idea. I'll add that.

I don't know about actual speeds for either platform (40x speed, etc.). If someone has those for the HR-10 I could add that.

CC and Dolby I can also add under the features section. CIR, IIRC didn't work all the time on the HR10-250 either. Can a TiVo person confirm this?

The keyword feature works on the TiVo the same as the HR20(s). What's Hot I thought went under the active features. Is that right? Looking at my doc now I realized active isn't in there. That'll go in too. I don't think soft padding on the front end exists on the TiVo either. I'll have to follow up.

With highlighting the differences, if this were to go to .pdf format, would those show up or darken out the cell?

As far as promised features, until they're actually in existance I'm thinking we hold off. What are your thoughts?

The fact you like this means alot as I'm trying to model this off of all the ones you did. I'm sure we'll be working close on v3 and beyond (starting tomorrow, I have to work early so I'm crashing :D ).

Tony
- Tony

SWiM16, H21-100, H23-600, H21-700 w/AM21, HR24-500, HR24-100 w/AM21, (3) HR20-700
All receivers networked via DECA
MediaShare using TVersity on Win 7 VM over Mac Snow Leopard

#13 OFFLINE   cjever19

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Posted 18 August 2007 - 09:49 PM

the -700 does not have a fan on the bottom like the -100 does. My -700 runs about 20 degrees F hotter in the same location as my replaced -100 did.:flaiming
HR20-700 via HDMI to Panny TH-42PX60U
Antec MX-1 with WD10EVCS running flawless since 10/08 HR
HR22-100 to Panny SD-CRT
R15-500's via Coax Ch. 3 to 29" Panny SD-CRT's
(Details here)

#14 OFFLINE   tfederov

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Posted 19 August 2007 - 06:34 AM

the -700 does not have a fan on the bottom like the -100 does. My -700 runs about 20 degrees F hotter in the same location as my replaced -100 did.:flaiming


It's actually in an odd spot. Earl has a pic of the guts from his intro thread here: http://www.dbstalk.c...e/11-Inside.jpg

Note it's a pretty big pic.
- Tony

SWiM16, H21-100, H23-600, H21-700 w/AM21, HR24-500, HR24-100 w/AM21, (3) HR20-700
All receivers networked via DECA
MediaShare using TVersity on Win 7 VM over Mac Snow Leopard

#15 OFFLINE   tfederov

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Posted 19 August 2007 - 07:12 AM

v3 has been posted. For the most part I'm avoiding promised features with the exception of the number of national HD channels because that's the biggie between the two flavors. VOD will be added once it's released.

If anyone sees mistakes (I'd love for a HundredNation person to confirm the dimensions) please either post here or PM me and I'll make the changes.

Thanks!
- Tony

SWiM16, H21-100, H23-600, H21-700 w/AM21, HR24-500, HR24-100 w/AM21, (3) HR20-700
All receivers networked via DECA
MediaShare using TVersity on Win 7 VM over Mac Snow Leopard

#16 OFFLINE   Milominderbinder2

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Posted 19 August 2007 - 08:18 AM

Tony,

Again great work.

You and I know the significance of MPEG4 but for a new user the significance is 10 vs 150 HD channels. Thanks for adding that.

As to FFW, I don't really care if it is 3 or 4 speeds, I want to know my fastest FFW speed. I rarely use FFW2.

I think that the TiVo has an internal fix to CIR. It applies the Favorite Channels. Again, I don't care if CIR is ever fixed. I care that Autorecord and Search are so broken on the HR20 and work on the HR10. That to me is the second most important difference between the two boxes.

The TiVo HR10 can do a Title Search Autorecord. The HR20 manual says it can as have past release notes but it cannot.

What's Hot is a type of active feature. It is completely unique from anything else.

A pdf will bring the highlight (cell pattern backgrounds). I can convert for you. Stuart is right that the final draft should be a pdf so anyone can easily see it.

The promised features are important because several are key features in the HR10 today. If the HR10 has critical issues already addressed, it deserves credit:

I think that the HR10 can edit "all the programs" in the Prioritizer (even when there are no upcoming episodes).

Were we told that the HR10 has OTA Scan? That is so huge.

Doesn't the HR10 have Screen Centering?
Will the HR10 be able to show DIRECTV On Demand?

Other TiVos have Remote Programmability or MRV Multi room Viewing. Does the HR10?

We need to hear from some of the HR10 crowd...

#17 OFFLINE   Michael D'Angelo

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Posted 19 August 2007 - 08:18 AM

v3 has been posted. For the most part I'm avoiding promised features with the exception of the number of national HD channels because that's the biggie between the two flavors. VOD will be added once it's released.

If anyone sees mistakes (I'd love for a HundredNation person to confirm the dimensions) please either post here or PM me and I'll make the changes.

Thanks!


Looks great Tony. I am still trying to think of some more.

#18 OFFLINE   tonyd79

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Posted 19 August 2007 - 09:02 AM

I think that the TiVo has an internal fix to CIR. It applies the Favorite Channels.

Actually, you tell it what channels you receive. There is only one favorites list. It must be a subset of Channels You Receive. You can also use the guide on All Channels. Searches work on Channels You Receive while the guide and channel buttons work on which you have set (All, CYR, Fav).

So, if Tony is going to add anything about all that, he could add that CIR is edittable on HR10 and that HR20 has 2 favorites lists and HR10 has one.

What's Hot is a type of active feature. It is completely unique from anything else.

Active features should be broken out. There is What's Hot, there is weather/etc, there are interactive sports features and there is Game Lounge.

Were we told that the HR10 has OTA Scan? That is so huge.

Yes it has autoscan but I don't know what it does with channels it cannot find in the guide data. Haven't encountered that yet.

Doesn't the HR10 have Screen Centering?

If it does, I can't find it.

Will the HR10 be able to show DIRECTV On Demand?

No. So far only the HR20 is announced for that.

Other TiVos have Remote Programmability or MRV Multi room Viewing. Does the HR10?

Not without a hack. Although some hacking additions could be put in the spreadsheet. Such as drive upgrades are hardware upgrades in the HR10 while they are eSata in the HR20.
LR: HR34-700, H24-200, Fios DVR, BD350 Blu Ray, Roku Netflix Player, Chromecast, Sony 65w850 TV
BR: HR21-200, Viso 32LX, DB350 Blu Ray
Dish: Slimline, SWM8
Other: genieGo

#19 OFFLINE   tfederov

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Posted 19 August 2007 - 09:07 AM

Tony,

Again great work.

You and I know the significance of MPEG4 but for a new user the significance is 10 vs 150 HD channels. Thanks for adding that.

As to FFW, I don't really care if it is 3 or 4 speeds, I want to know my fastest FFW speed. I rarely use FFW2.

I think that the TiVo has an internal fix to CIR. It applies the Favorite Channels. Again, I don't care if CIR is ever fixed. I care that Autorecord and Search are so broken on the HR20 and work on the HR10. That to me is the second most important difference between the two boxes.

The TiVo HR10 can do a Title Search Autorecord. The HR20 manual says it can as have past release notes but it cannot.

What's Hot is a type of active feature. It is completely unique from anything else.

A pdf will bring the highlight (cell pattern backgrounds). I can convert for you. Stuart is right that the final draft should be a pdf so anyone can easily see it.

The promised features are important because several are key features in the HR10 today. If the HR10 has critical issues already addressed, it deserves credit:

I think that the HR10 can edit "all the programs" in the Prioritizer (even when there are no upcoming episodes).

Were we told that the HR10 has OTA Scan? That is so huge.

Doesn't the HR10 have Screen Centering?
Will the HR10 be able to show DIRECTV On Demand?

Other TiVos have Remote Programmability or MRV Multi room Viewing. Does the HR10?

We need to hear from some of the HR10 crowd...


You're gonna make me have to reactivate an HR10.. :P :D

I'm confused on the edit "all the programs". Do you mean such as keep until, repeats or first runs, keep 5, 10, all?
HR10 does have OTA scan. That I know for sure. I can't remember the CIR for it though because I've had it record things in the past but.... oh yeah.. I remember now, my problem was with (sports)blackouts, not CIR.

No screen centering or VOD on the HR10. Again, I wanted to keep VOD out until it showed up because the Army will say we're adding vaporware to make the HR20 look better (I used to be one, I know how they think! :D ) but I can put that in there. I'll say Q4 if everyone agrees with that. No MRV without a hack and at that I don't think the HR10 could ever do that. So for v4, the changes will be (after I get back from church):

Highlight the differences
Add OTA scan
Add VOD for Q4

Some other things I'd like to add/confirm:
Series Links=50 for HR20, what is the season pass max?
CIR for the HR10-250
Editing season passes

Those will most likely in v5.

I think that should do it. Just so everyone knows too, I'm looking at possibly growing this out to the entire D* line of receivers (R10, R15, D11, D12) if it would be helpful. My thoughts are that someone looking for info to even get DIRECTV would be able to use this as a reference to compare what they want with each receiver.
- Tony

SWiM16, H21-100, H23-600, H21-700 w/AM21, HR24-500, HR24-100 w/AM21, (3) HR20-700
All receivers networked via DECA
MediaShare using TVersity on Win 7 VM over Mac Snow Leopard

#20 OFFLINE   Milominderbinder2

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Posted 19 August 2007 - 10:43 AM

Tony,

Your HR10 should be able to edit "all the programs" in the Season Pass Manager. That is a big problem in the HR20. It should be noted:

Edit All Series Links - HR10 Yes - HR20 No

OTA Scan is a big deal. It would be huge for people like Hasan who after almost a year still can't get their local channels in the HR20 Guide. It needs to be in the list.

OTA Scan - HR10 Yes - HR20 No

Channels I Receive is a big deal.

Search Only Your Channels - HR10 Yes - HR20 No

VOD is a big deal. It is not vaporware. The coming HD channels are not vaporware. At this point, it does not sound like the HR10 will ever have it.

Video On Demand (VOD) - HR10 No - HR20 Q4

I think it would be great to find out the maximum number of HR10 Season Passes

I would love to see you add the Dish 622 HD DVR to the comparison. I am not sure the old SD receivers or non-DVRs are where anyone is heading. We have a whole team of Dish experts over on the other side who would help. That would be huge.

- Craig




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