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ViP622 stuck in endless auto-reboot cycle


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#1 OFFLINE   tedb3rd

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Posted 22 September 2007 - 11:25 AM

I have had 3 replacent receivers within the past 2 weeks and have experienced the same problem everytime: I install the receiver, download software update, call DN and activate. The receiver works fine for about 24 hours. Then it crashes, tries to reboot. But then, before it even gets to the acquiring satellite signal screen, it shuts down and reboots again. This reboot cycle is endless.

I spoke w/sombody in level 3 tech support this AM. They are sending, yet, another receiver. L3 stated that it is a known technical issue with the software. I also mentioned that I feel voltage on the tuner #1 input when I go to unscrew the SAT#1 feed.

Here is my setup:
2 RG6 cables running between DP44 switch and the receiver (power inserter inline with tuner #1)
3 DP Plus LNBs for 110, 119, 129 satellites
External HDD (750GB Maxtor)

Here is what I have tried:
-AC Power seems to be OK--no 'stray' voltage on the neutral or ground
-Symptoms occur plugging AC power directly into the wall and w/surge protector
-Symptoms occur plugging AC power into outlet in another room (different circuit breaker)
-Disconnecting satellite feeds (after unit begins to fail) yields endless reboot cycle
-Bypassing DP44 switch (and power inserter) and using SW21 switch attached to 119 & 129 yields same results
-unplugging external HDD yields same results

(all of the above w/hard and soft resets)


Can anybody answer any of the following questions so that I can ruleout other possible causes?
--What should the voltage be for the line between the inserter and the switch?
--What should the voltage be between the DP44 switch and the LNB's?
--What should the voltage be between the power inserter and the receiver?
--Should you feel voltage when TOUCHING the line between the power inserter and the receiver? (because that's what's happening--and what's making me think there is more to this than just a software glitch (3 times))

--Is there a difference in any of these from when the receiver is ON vs. 'OFF' (or standby)

Thanks to anybody who can shed any light on this. I'm a electronics geek and I've got all the 'toys' (voltmeter, signal meter, etc.)--figure I might as well use them to help isolate the problem. I have stumped tech support with Dish Network, Dell, Saturn before and would be nice to possibly solve the problem because right now it's just, "We'll send you a new receiver." ...for the 3rd time. I hate spending the money to have a tech come out and tell me my power inserter, switch, and/or LNB was bad... I just don't know what 'normal' is for these components. I hate for a tech to come out because that would have been money I could have spent on replacing the part. ...and then the part about blocking a whole day from work to be on standby for the tech to show up

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#2 OFFLINE   twomble

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Posted 22 September 2007 - 07:52 PM

What is the AC voltage between the outer shell of the tuner 1 coax and the case of the 622 when the coax is disconnected? I’m going to guess it’s around 60 VAC. What else is connected to the 622 receiver? A/V Receiver, TV, Coax out to second TV? With the voltmeter reading the voltage between the coax and the 622 start disconnecting the other connections to the 622 and see if the voltage disappears. My guess is the device creating the problem is not the 622 or the DPP44, but something else connected to the 622. Your dish(s) should have been grounded properly when installed. If something else connected to the 622 has a ground fault then it will use the path out to the dish(s) to find the earth ground. If you find that a stereo or TV is the cause of the problem and they don’t have polarized power plugs you can try flipping the plug over and plug it back in the other way. Depending on the type of problem this may cure it.

Tracking down ground faults can be a real challenge. I had one once that took me over a week to figure out. It ended up being a powered sub-woofer that was getting its power from a different outlet on the opposite house phase of the A/V Receiver. In my case I changed the house wiring to include the sub-woofer outlet on the same circuit as the rest of the A/V equipment and the problem was solved.

#3 OFFLINE   Jim5506

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Posted 22 September 2007 - 07:55 PM

How long since the initial install? You have a 90 day warranty. If the first failure was within 90 days of install - you should be covered, otherwise, sign up for Dish Home Protection Plan (~$6/mo.) get it fixed, then drop DHPP. Out of warranty service calls drop from $99 to $29 with DHPP.

The voltage you feel is a ground loop. Your system is not properly grounded. Either ground has failed or was not done properly in the first place.

Have Dish send a tech to double check the grounding on your system, you are going to keep having problems until the grounding problem is corrected.

Why are there two RG-6 lines from the switch to the 622? A single line with a seperator would work as well, and you could use the second line for OTA or backfeed.
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#4 OFFLINE   tedb3rd

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Posted 23 September 2007 - 12:29 PM

Install was back in '03 at this house. ViP622 (the original) came in Feb. '06. Yes, I understand about the separator (etc) but based upon where the satellite dish had to be mounted, where the junction box was for inside wiring, and where I wanted the 622 to be located, I asked the installer to just run two cables. Plus, if I ever needed it in the future, it's there. For right now, it's there--might as well use it.

I'm beginning to think that there is more than one thing going on re: the problems I've been having. The first symptom of the original 622 going bad was an error message saying that the hard drive was a muck. It worked fine for a few days after that, then problems--the reboot thing. I was able to get it back "limping" so we could at least watch TV while waiting for the replacement to arrive--it took about 10 seconds to change channels and the DVR features didn't work at all... but at least there was sound/picture. The second receiver worked fine for about 24 hours, then problems--the reboot thing. One time it did make it to the acquiring sat signal (step 3 of 5) but then rebooted itself. The third--after 24 hours, nothing but reboots. To rule out the house AC wiring (bad ground and/or voltage where it shouldn't be), I even plugged the receiver and power inserter into our computer APC battery backup (with everything else unplugged) and tried to run from there--same problem, reboots. I tried with and without the satellite feeds connected, and also with/without video/audio outputs connected to TV/Amp. Our neigbor has Dish Network also and I'm going to take it over there, to a different house, to see if it will fire-up there properly. If it doesn't work there, then there is a grounding problem at the transformer box on the street or, indeed, I just happened to get two almost-DOA replacement receivers.

I've checked all plugs and they seem to be wired correctly--(~116v between + and neutral, ~116v between + and ground, 0 between neutral and ground).

This is a mystery. And when the answer is found, I'm going to be sure to share!
I appreciate the feedback from you all.

#5 OFFLINE   wje

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Posted 23 September 2007 - 01:02 PM

Have you done the coax voltage check? You've eliminated a ground fault at the outlet, but not necessarily from the dish-side ground. I've seen cases where the dish is grounded to what looks like a good ground, such as a copper water pipe, but the pipe farther on transitions to plastic fittings. Anything else also grounded to that pipe could have a fault, coupling in line voltage.

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#6 OFFLINE   whatchel1

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Posted 23 September 2007 - 09:45 PM

I'm starting to think the problem is at the switch. How are the dish & the switch grounded? If there is a ground problem out there it might throw the LNBF into oscillations if there were a ground loop between them.

#7 OFFLINE   steelhorse

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Posted 24 September 2007 - 05:41 AM

I had a similar problem. It ended up being a ground issue. I was on the phone with a intelligent american at tech support, I know, hard to believe.
She had me run several tests then asked how I had the box plugged in. I was using a ups that was showing no errors. She asked me to plug the 622 into the wall socket. It hasn't had a problem since.

#8 OFFLINE   tedb3rd

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Posted 24 September 2007 - 08:42 PM

This afternoon I tested AC power and sat input cables for anything funky when running the washer/dryer. Nothing unusual. This idea popped up to me because the washer/dryer are right inside from where the switch is mounted (and thus, where the ground cable is run up into the vent area to the crawlspace). If the installer grounded to the cold water pipe (or who knows what), then that could potentially be a culprit. ...We had gone out Saturday AM and were gone when the 2nd replacement receiver seems to have been 'toasted'--my wife had a load of laundry in the washer and dryer and it ran while we were gone. If it was this, it would also explain why both receivers worked for about a day...

Whatchel--I am going to go out and inspect tomorrow (didn't get home until after dark tonight). I sure hope I can find the problem because this is crazy. In toubleshooting after it was fried, I tried unplugging both sat feeds and it still constantly rebooted. I also tried plugging it into a battery backup (with nothing else attached) and running off the battery. ...same thing.

Steelhorse--The 1st tech rep told me to bypass the surge protector but that gave the same results. To ensure that it wasn't another surge protector anywhere in the house that was 'leaking' voltage, I unplugged them all. No resolution. I also tried plugging it into multiple outlets throughout the house. Same thing...

The only thing I can do for sure is stand out in front of my house with a few buddies, cold one in my hand, staring at my satellite dish and say, "Yup. She's broke." Anybody got a spare NASCAR shirt recon' I could barrow?

Thanks to both for the ideas/suggestions.

#9 OFFLINE   tedb3rd

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Posted 08 October 2007 - 08:04 AM

Well, after 4 replacement receivers and an electrician visit--we determined that it was a defective power inserter. Switch and everything else was fine. We are now on receiver # 5, day #5 and no problems.

Thanks to all for ideas/suggestions.
Dish: add this one to your knowlegbase! ...and when customer says they feel voltage on the cable, consider the possibility that it is NOT a known SOFTWARE issue that occurs 3 times in a row!

#10 OFFLINE   Cocoatreat

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Posted 22 October 2007 - 10:17 AM

my original 622 had to be replaced after 6 great problem free months. i am now on my 2nd replacement. the 1st one started rebooting itself twice on the 1st day of installation. at one time it rebooted itself 32 times in one day.... now i am on my 2nd one. it worked great for all of 2 days. i went to work and when i came home & turned on the receiver , it simply would not turn on. it turns itself off for a reboot. i can hear the hard drive turning. if i turn it on, it will only stay on for about 2min before rebooting. so now i am just out of luck now. e* wants to charge $14.99 for shipping each time. i called for a "working" 622 & now i'm just simply tired. i have been with e* for quite awhile...but they need to throw some of these refurbs away! not sure if the next one will work...but i'm just tired of this nonsense. i can't watch tv with my 622....so i have missed a lot of the new season of shows. i only hope that i can get one that works.....
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#11 OFFLINE   BNUMM

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Posted 22 October 2007 - 10:42 AM

I have a friend who has a 622 that started doing the same thing. It worked fine for nine months. Dish sent her a replacement. It took the download and worked for about 30 minutes and started doing the same thing. They sent another and it is doing the same. If anyone figures this out please post the solution. Thanks.

#12 OFFLINE   ChuckA

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Posted 22 October 2007 - 10:57 AM

The problem is obviously in some other piece of equipment that causes the 622 to reboot. She should have Dish come out and check her dish, LNBs, switch and cables.
Receivers: ViP622 (dual mode), ViP722k (single mode), 311
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#13 OFFLINE   Cocoatreat

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Posted 22 October 2007 - 08:32 PM

its just funny that with my previous recievers: 301, 501, &510......there was never any problem. i have had no problems; never had to return a receiver ever until this 622... so i dont know what the problem is......but i'm so frustrated....i'm just ready to just drop the hd altogether & just watch it ota...... e* is charging just excessive fees for this hd. i know that i am going 2 call customer service because i will not PAY for hd that i am not getting. i will just send my 622 back and watch my 510 with no problem.. & then when we all have to convert.. then i will just consider another hd receiver. i'm sure by then the bugs will hopefully be gone
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recievers: vip622, 501, 510
hr20-700 - staying with a cousin in tex
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bose lifestyle sytem mmmmm its good!

#14 OFFLINE   BNUMM

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Posted 22 October 2007 - 08:49 PM

The problem is obviously in some other piece of equipment that causes the 622 to reboot. She should have Dish come out and check her dish, LNBs, switch and cables.


She sells Dish and I am an installer. I have talked to other installers and they have no ideas. Her other receivers (508 &501) are fine. The unit is not overheating. The techs Dish would send out in this area are so inexperienced they are of no help.

#15 OFFLINE   tedb3rd

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Posted 23 October 2007 - 07:28 PM

The problem was isolated down to a defective line voltage inserter that was powering the DP44 switch. The tech also went ahead and put new end connectors on all the cables between the receiver, switch, and LNBs. Good luck. My receiver has been working fine since.

Re: the other receivers working fine--exactly the same here. I kept asking tech support to send me a new line inserter b/c [see original post re: voltage on cable...] but they kept saying that it could NOT be the switch or line voltage inserter because then ALL receivers would be going haywire. Well... Guess what!? Now there are at least TWO cases of other receivers working fine with one going crazy and the problem was NOT in the receiver. With the $ dish dished out to send back all my replacement receivers, they could have sent a new inserter and also not had to have a tech come out. [sigh]. Well, it's working now after about 3 weeks of 'down time.' Refund? Righhhhhhhhhhht.

#16 OFFLINE   BNUMM

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Posted 23 October 2007 - 09:06 PM

The problem was isolated down to a defective line voltage inserter that was powering the DP44 switch. The tech also went ahead and put new end connectors on all the cables between the receiver, switch, and LNBs. Good luck. My receiver has been working fine since.

Re: the other receivers working fine--exactly the same here. I kept asking tech support to send me a new line inserter b/c [see original post re: voltage on cable...] but they kept saying that it could NOT be the switch or line voltage inserter because then ALL receivers would be going haywire. Well... Guess what!? Now there are at least TWO cases of other receivers working fine with one going crazy and the problem was NOT in the receiver. With the $ dish dished out to send back all my replacement receivers, they could have sent a new inserter and also not had to have a tech come out. [sigh]. Well, it's working now after about 3 weeks of 'down time.' Refund? Righhhhhhhhhhht.


I have seen this happen a couple of times with DPP4x4 switches. It usually affects the receiver with the longest cable run. You may have it happen again. At one location the power inserter failed twice.

However, this is not the problem at my friends house because she does not have a DPP4x4 switch just straight runs to the receivers. I had her disconnect all inputs to the receiver ( from dish and the antenna ) and it still does it. Dish decided to send another receiver.

#17 OFFLINE   logicalnoise

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Posted 22 January 2008 - 01:32 PM

I've been having similar problems as these people. original reciver lasted over a year and then went into reboot cycles, 1st replacement kept thinking it wa soverheating and now the 3rd runs incredibly slow and has restarted itself a few times(plus video intermittently works). My 3rd tech call ended up being an american tech who said it sounds liek a grounding issue(which based on this thread sounds correct). Tech is coming out this weekend I'll let ya know.

#18 OFFLINE   easton94

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Posted 24 January 2008 - 08:19 PM

Well I'll tell ya this does not give me much hope....my first 622 worked for about 24 hours then into auto reboot madness. Replacement did slightly better, lasted about a week...then into slightly different reboot cycle saying something about a smart card in an error message on the screen. Tech is coming tomorrow and it sounds to me like he is already set to call it a problem with the wiring in my brand new house, which by the way is wired with the R6 that Dish recommends I believe. So, tell me this, how in the world can they tell me that it is my house when the previous DVR was working beautifully for 6 months, and the problem only develped with the new reveiver?? Has anyone had any luck getting out of their contract and going to a different provider??? Seems like a bunch of bunk that they can just say oh its your wiring when their other boxes work just fine...I know this is a stretch for Dish but common sense tells me its an issue with the box. I did have some cheap coax, I think it was R59U?? Would that cause a problem?? Also are these "grounding" issues easily resolved??? Lastly why would the 622 be more susceptible to these issues than the other DVR's?? thanks in advance!! '94

#19 OFFLINE   ChuckA

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Posted 25 January 2008 - 07:13 AM

You guys that are having reboots check on the number of events you have in your schedule. There are a couple of reports by other people of reboots that appear to be caused by using DishPass timers that generate lots of events. If you have over 500 events try converting your timers away from DishPass since they can cause many schedule hits for frequent programs. It seems like recent Tivo converts fall prey to this most because DishPass sounds like what they were used to using on the Tivo when in fact they should be using normal timers. Just something to check. Get the events below 400.
Receivers: ViP622 (dual mode), ViP722k (single mode), 311
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#20 OFFLINE   logicalnoise

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Posted 25 January 2008 - 10:59 AM

You guys that are having reboots check on the number of events you have in your schedule. There are a couple of reports by other people of reboots that appear to be caused by using DishPass timers that generate lots of events. If you have over 500 events try converting your timers away from DishPass since they can cause many schedule hits for frequent programs. It seems like recent Tivo converts fall prey to this most because DishPass sounds like what they were used to using on the Tivo when in fact they should be using normal timers. Just something to check. Get the events below 400.


i have maybe 3 timers set to record new shows and no dish passes(never used them on any of the 622's I've run).

#21 OFFLINE   tedb3rd

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Posted 26 January 2008 - 05:17 PM

It could be called the 'reboot syndrome' because we have all had the same symptoms but nobody has been able to diagnose the exact cause(s). I've seen some other threads covering this same topic and different people have different things they change the ultimately corrects the problem.

One thing is for certain--it's FRUSTRATING. CUT the 'send a replacement receiver' b/c it's just going to keep doing the same thing. Just have a tech come out. After the tech came out, all was fixed so I'm not going to switch--too much invested in Dish + when it's working it's pretty good DVR. I have a buddy who has Direct and their HD DVR is OK, but Dish's GUI and 'logic' is much better IMO.

#22 OFFLINE   pegazuz

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Posted 11 March 2008 - 05:27 PM

[quote name='tedb3rd']Well, after 4 replacement receivers and an electrician visit--we determined that it was a defective power inserter. Switch and everything else was fine. We are now on receiver # 5, day #5 and no problems.

I have had three non working 622s but plan to try a 722 instead of a fourth 622. It is hard to believe that they have not resolved this issue and keep sending out non working DVR's or else failing to install them correctly. My original 921 worked much better for four years and and an old original 508 still keeps plugging along without any apparent difficulty most of the time while 622s often can't even tape an hour show because of frequent reboots and loss of signal. It is hard to watch a show that has six segments with gaps of several minutes and real frustrating when you are pay $140 a month for service you aren't receiving.

I have another tech bringing out new replacement machine but am not real optimistic. The first one seemed able to install the new Dish for upgrade and did a good job concealing new wiring but didn't have a clue on how to set up remote so you could turn DVR and TV (A Dish HD TV) on together. They sent out a second tech who was also clueless on how to set up a remote. He recommended doing things manually on TV and DVR. Several calls to tech support finally yielded a knowledgeable tech support who gave me right code, but then due to family pressure the 622 was moved to an office location and 508 hooked up the HD Dish TV. Now I can't get remote to work again. Two calls to tech support resulted in one saying I had wrong remote so he sent out another one. The next call resulted in tech telling me remote was defective because it won't set up by following directions in manual and you have to use the manual controls on TV to turn on and start watching.

Anyone know how to program the remote to work with TV. When ever I push sat button it changes TV to channel 3 and breaks feed which is connected at svid1.

#23 OFFLINE   bonipie

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Posted 15 March 2008 - 03:27 PM

OK, what's a power inserter?? And, what's the DP44??
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#24 OFFLINE   bonipie

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Posted 15 March 2008 - 04:01 PM

I'll reply to my own question. There was a photo of a power inserter on another thread. We don't have a switch, since we are running only one antenna. We had a switch previously in our old setup. The power inserter provides power for the switch.

We did receive a NEW 7222, with cables, vacuum pack, and manual, thin plastic film over front, etc. It was so exciting after we received 3 622 referbs in the last 2 months. All have had rebooting problems. 722 rebooted after first nite. No other reboots after 4 days-4 days without a reboot, WOW! But, we did have a bit of a lockup today, and whole system slowed down, so we really couldn't use remote. So, we forced a reset. So, new 722 seems pretty iffy.

As for reboot problem, we don't think it is power problem-we have had it on house power, and on a fully regulated a/c power supply powered by solar powered battery system. We don't think it is switch or power inserter since we don't have one. We don't think it is too many events or DishPass-hardly ever record, and what's Dish Pass? We don't think this is a temperature problem, and no CSR's have ever questioned this-our temps seem to be in the range that others experience. We do know Dish recognizes this as a known problem, which they didn't in January when we first started having problems. Their 4.49 release note says it fixes Rebooting problems. It doesn't. This is the second receiver that we had with rebooting problems and version L4.49 software.
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#25 OFFLINE   ultimato

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Posted 16 April 2008 - 04:28 PM

Thanks for all the replies everyone, and for continuing the thread. Dish is sending an advanced technician to my house tomorrow with a new 722 so we'll see how this one holds up. I'm printing out a bunch of the posts here to show him so they can check all that stuff and also so they can't bs me and say it's an isolated problem that they've never heard of before.

All I know is that if the 722 goes out I'm canceling my contract and if they give me a hard time over it I'll fight it. I'd rather stay with Dish then go to Direct or cable, but I checked with several neighbors who have one or the other and they've never had any problems remotely like this.




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