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Movie Timers Disappearing


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57 replies to this topic

#1 OFFLINE   dbrakob

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Posted 12 October 2007 - 10:56 AM

I posted about this several weeks ago with no luck on a fix as well as talking with Dish CSRs several times and getting a new 722. My scenario is this. If I schedule a timer on any SD movie channel (HBO, Showtime, etc) it shows up in the timers and schedule and all looks good. After about 12 hours (waking up the next morning or getting back from work) the show falls off the schedule but the timer remains. There is nothing in the schedule/history saying it is skipped, conflict, whatever. The show basically falls off the schedule but remains on the timer. If I go into timers and choose EDIT then DONE (without actually changing anything) it shows back up on the schedule but disappears again after 12-14 hours. This only happens with SD movie channels. Everything works fine with HD movie channnels, HD regular channels and SD regular channels. Anybody else experiencing anything like this or have ideas on what is happening? Dish CSRs tried their best but to no avail. I ended up just living with the problem and only scheduling shows (SD movies) for middle of the night before I go tto bed and during the day before I head to work.

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#2 OFFLINE   jsk

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Posted 13 October 2007 - 07:02 AM

Do you allow the DVR to do updates? I was having the same problem and found out that my wife was skipping the updates when they came up. I rescheduled the updates so they don't happen when she is up and all was well.
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#3 OFFLINE   dbrakob

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Posted 15 October 2007 - 09:46 AM

I do have updates activated and have tried it at different times of the day but that did not solve the problem.

#4 OFFLINE   Rick_R

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Posted 16 October 2007 - 05:20 PM

I have a problem with timers being deleted but it is different. I will set a timer to record the football game when the guide says ABC college football teams TBD. I wll do this because I know that the game is the one I want. Then the programming information changes to ABC college football USC versus Arizona. When this occurs the timer is deleted.

It is apparent that when they change the programming information they delete the old program and add the new, thus deleting my timer. Kind of sucks.

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#5 OFFLINE   Ernie7410

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Posted 27 April 2008 - 07:02 PM

I did not see any clear resolution to the post about movie timers being deleted. I have had this nagging problem since I got two "new" VIP722 receivers 2 months ago. They were deleting PPV movie timers and HDNet (channel 9422) timers. The deletion would occur over night or when the receiver was off for a few hours. After many many calls, DISH sent 1 replacement receiver. Turned out to be a refurbished one. The replacement stopped deleting the HDNet timers, but same problem with PPV movies.

Again, many many many calls to advanced tech support. I finally told them to pick up both receivers and cancel my contract. Then I got someone from advanced technical support who sent me two replacement receivers. Both refurbished.

Now, one seems to be working fine. The other still deletes PPV movie timers.

[I have changed remote addresses to higher numbers. I have rebooted several times. I have not come close to timer number limit.]

I'm getting ready to start the calls again tomorrow.

Theory - Early (old) chip sets in some units defective? Since they keep sending me old units, it's a crap shoot as to whether that will solve my problem.

Anyone else experiencing this? Any solutions?

Thanks,
Ernie

#6 OFFLINE   rcpilotjae

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Posted 28 April 2008 - 06:15 AM

I some times think these DVR's have a mind of their own. Anyway, after 4 replacement units I finally got one that works rather well. But I have noticed it will erase programmed local channels. I record some shows for the wife (while she's working) and have found I need to program these shows on the same day as the show other wise it'll erase. Yes, the timer is still there, but the actual recording of the show is erased. I found this out when I programmed the same show every day for five days. The next day the wife asked where the programs where. I quickly found out the DVR was deleting the programming. Any ways, this does not happen on any other channel or situation. Only on the local channels. Everything else that is programmed for future recording works fine.

Don't know what the problem is, but more or less to let you know you're not alone.

Since everything else works flawlessly and it took me 4 replacement units to get one that works this well, I can live with this one small bug. Maybe it is something in the updated software and hopefully it will be corrected in the future.
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#7 OFFLINE   dbrakob

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Posted 28 April 2008 - 02:10 PM

I knew I would get others to "share" my pain eventually. Dish insisted last October that it was the FIRST time they had ever heard of this happening (that was from the Advanced Tech guys no less). I tried 3 different 722s but always had the same problem. As 90% of the channels we watch are ok we chose to live with this defect instead of spending time trying different 722s which is a pain when you are recording series shows that you do not want to lose.

Seems to be no rhyme or reason to my problems. I have HBO and Cinemax. HBO HD and Cinemax HD both are fine but the rest of the HBO and Cinemax channels lose their "event" (but not the timer) after about 12 hours. The really strange thing is that there is ONE HBO SD channel, HBO Family, that works fine so it does not even seem to be an HD/SD thing.

#8 OFFLINE   Ron Barry

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Posted 28 April 2008 - 03:10 PM

Seems to be no rhyme or reason to my problems. I have HBO and Cinemax. HBO HD and Cinemax HD both are fine but the rest of the HBO and Cinemax channels lose their "event" (but not the timer) after about 12 hours. The really strange thing is that there is ONE HBO SD channel, HBO Family, that works fine so it does not even seem to be an HD/SD thing.


Hmmm... Are you seeing this on the HBO west versions or could this possible be a side effect of Channel mapping. Do you have a specific test case I can try?
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#9 OFFLINE   Ernie7410

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Posted 28 April 2008 - 08:08 PM

Thanks for the replies. Very interesting. Each time I have talked with Dish tech support and asked, they have told me they are not aware of this problem (deleted timers) in any generic sense. Also, that generally, the 722 receiver is trouble free. Now I learn that another person had to go through 4 receivers to get a good one.

And today I took both my replaced 722s to UPS to return to Dish. Well the UPS clerk said she had shipped loads of Dish receivers back from our Lynchburg, VA area, including several this same morning !

This leads me to believe there are major problems with the 722, or at least with a variety of Dish receivers. Dish people seem to be stonewalling us when we ask about generic problems and solutions. If you push hard and long enough they agree to send you a refurbished unit. But it probably is still defective.

What gives? Is this a concerted strategy to avoid publicity on a major problem?

#10 OFFLINE   TulsaOK

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Posted 28 April 2008 - 09:03 PM

Well the UPS clerk said she had shipped loads of Dish receivers back from our Lynchburg, VA area, including several this same morning !


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#11 OFFLINE   Ron Barry

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Posted 29 April 2008 - 12:08 AM

Ernie..... I can say with confidence that there is not a concentrated strategy.. Dish is way to big of a company to pull something like that off.

Having said that... Based on your original description it sounds to me like you might have run into a software defect. What I am trying now to do is try and get a independent confirmation. First step to fixing a defect is being able to reproduce it.

So if you have a test case... I believe it would go a long way to root causing the issue.
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#12 OFFLINE   Ernie7410

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Posted 29 April 2008 - 05:00 AM

Ernie..... I can say with confidence that there is not a concentrated strategy.. Dish is way to big of a company to pull something like that off.

Having said that... Based on your original description it sounds to me like you might have run into a software defect. What I am trying now to do is try and get a independent confirmation. First step to fixing a defect is being able to reproduce it.

So if you have a test case... I believe it would go a long way to root causing the issue.


Ron - Be happy to help. As I said earlier, one of my 722s is now working perfectly. The other consisently deletes PPV movie timers. All I have to do is set the timer ... it's then there in the "schedule" list and in the guide ... then turn off the receiver for just a few hours or overnight ... then turn it on. The timer will have been "deleted by use #1". Currently I have authorized a movie on channel 537 for May 1st. It consistently disappears from the schedule and guide as I just described.

Let me know what kind of test can be run that would be helpful. -- Ernie

#13 OFFLINE   ChuckA

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Posted 29 April 2008 - 08:47 AM

On your 722 that is "working perfectly" does this mean you can set a timer for a future day PPV and have it work correctly?

On your other 722, are the missing timers always for future date PPV? I have never used a PPV timer for a future date. If I want to record a PPV movie I have always done it on the day I do the PPV authorization. I have set up a test for a future date PPV, so we will see what happens. When the timer gets deleted, are you charged for the PPV on your bill?
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#14 OFFLINE   Ron Barry

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Posted 29 April 2008 - 09:33 AM

Thanks Ernie... Since we have seen a lot of reports on this and not a lot of posting regarding it I think we need to try and dig further to see if we can repeat it.

As for a test... I was hoping I could test a use case that you know causes the timer to drop on your box. Is there any timer events outside of PPV where you are seeing this consistently. From reading your posts I got the impression this is happening with HBO also.

It also appears that you have two 722s. Is this happening on both of them? The more details you can dig up surrounding this issue and if a repeatable test case can be found it is much easier to fix.
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#15 OFFLINE   Ernie7410

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Posted 29 April 2008 - 12:21 PM

Ron:

I'll list the relevant details per your question:

Comparison of my two 722 receivers side by side

A. 2/28/08 to ~ 3/17/2008 -- Two new VIP722 receivers (#1 & #2) installed on February 28th (upstairs & downstairs):

I discovered the timer problem on the upstairs receiver (#1). I spent a lot of time trying to isolate and understand the problem, along with many calls to Dish. I did not pay much attention to the downstairs receiver.

The upstairs receiver lost (deleted) all timers for all PPV movies and all timers for all HDNet (channel 9422) events. I am not aware of other channels for which timers were deleted. I did set numerous timers for other channels and, to my knowledge, they all worked OK. It was someone else in this thread that mentioned HBO. Also, someone else mentioned local channel timers lost. I never tried to record local programs and I don't get HBO.

After many calls to Dish, one of the advanced tech support people sent me a replacement (refurbished) 722 (#3).
B. ~3/17/2008 to 4/22/2008 -- Original new 722 (#2, downstairs) and Refurbished 722 (#3, upstairs)

By this time I had discovered that the original 722 downstairs (#2) behaved exactly the same as the original 722 upstairs (#1) that had now been replaced. However, the refurbished 722 (#3, upstairs) behaved differently. It still deleted all PPV movies, but did not delete the HDNet timers.

{I should note that by this time I had verified the same up-to-date SW on both receivers. Also, I had gone through mutiple troubleshooting sessions with Dish technicians, as well as on my own. Many resets, test switch, etc. Everything OK.}

More calls and finally Dish sent two replacement receivers, both refurbished units. I did the replacement on April 24th.

C. 4/22/2008 to Present -- Replacement #4 upstairs and #5 downstairs
#5 downstairs appears to be operating without any problems. Finally a good one !! However, #4 upstairs is doing the same as #3 did. It deletes all PPV movie timers, but does not delete HDNet timers.

SPECIFIC DELETION BEHAVIOR
Unfortunately, you have to buy a movie to test this receiver. Several days ago, I ordered "Into the Wild", Channel 537 (HD), scheduled to record at 5am on May 1st. I authorized it and then set timers on both my receivers for the same time slot. Receiver #5 downstairs has retained the timer. Receiver #4 upstairs promptly deleted the timer within the first 24 hours of ordering the movie. I can go back to the daily guide and re-select this movie to record, and another timer will be set ... and eventually be deleted. The timer is still in the timers list, but the schedule shows that it has been deleted by User #1. In fact, the schedule shows multiple deletions, one for each time I reset the timer. Also, if I edit the original timer, it reappears on the schedule. But eventually deletes again.

Channel 537 is HD. But same behavior for PPV movies not HD.

Well, that's probably enough for now. I look forward to your analysis / response.

Ernie

#16 OFFLINE   dbrakob

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Posted 29 April 2008 - 01:31 PM

[quote name='Ron Barry']As for a test... I was hoping I could test a use case that you know causes the timer to drop on your box. Is there any timer events outside of PPV where you are seeing this consistently. From reading your posts I got the impression this is happening with HBO also.
QUOTE]

Ron,
You have tried to help me before so not sure if you want to try again. I will set these up tonight and let you know what I see tomorrow.

Thursday, May 1, 0830-1000 (PT), HBO Family East, Ch 305, Coneheads, Once, Protected, TV2

Thursday, May 1, 1030-1215 (PT), HBO East, Ch 300, Music and Lyrics, Once, Protected, TV2

Need any more info?

#17 OFFLINE   Ernie7410

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Posted 29 April 2008 - 01:44 PM

[quote name='Ron Barry']Thanks Ernie... Since we have seen a lot of reports on this and not a lot of posting regarding it I think we need to try and dig further to see if we can repeat it.

As for a test... I was hoping I could test a use case that you know causes the timer to drop on your box. Is there any timer events outside of PPV where you are seeing this consistently.]

Ron - As I said in my last post, I'm down to a problem just with PPV movies. But for two of the five 722 receivers that I have had, HDNet (channel 9422) program timers were being constantly deleted. You might explore a test with that channel.

Ernie

#18 OFFLINE   Ron Barry

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Posted 29 April 2008 - 05:58 PM

Ernie... and dbrakob.. thanks for some excellent follow up details. Quick question..

Ernie... Are you running in dual mode also?

dbrakob.. I will try setting these timers up on my receiver tonight...

Do you guys toggle between dual and single mode alot or are you a set once type of person?
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#19 OFFLINE   Ernie7410

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Posted 29 April 2008 - 08:33 PM

Ernie... Are you running in dual mode also?

dbrakob.. I will try setting these timers up on my receiver tonight...

Do you guys toggle between dual and single mode alot or are you a set once type of person?


Ron -- I usually operate in the dual mode. But early on I checked out dual vs single mode to see if it made any difference. It did not. No matter how the timers were set, they deleted by themselves. I also checked out almost every other user option that I could postulate as possibly having impact. This included locks set vs lock off, auto updates enabled vs disabled, etc.

Theory: Problem is with chipsets, not software. If it were the software, every receiver would have this problem. Chipsets are being bought from variety of vendors (probably from China). Control is poor. Some manufactures are making defective chipsets. The defective chipsets are probably concentrated in batches of receivers assembled in the same time frame or at certain factories.

Theory: My first two new receivers came from such a concentration.

Theory: Dish does not have a handle on this problem yet. Problem is elusive. Difficult to test and know which chipsets to replace. Therefore, refurbished receivers are not getting their bad chip sets replaced. So replacement receivers are likely to contain defective chipsets.

Not all defective chipsets are the same. For me, the problem comes in two varities : PPV & HDNet or just PPV. Of five 722 receivers, only one has worked correctly. That's an 80% defect rate. For refurbished receivers, only one in three has worked correctly. Thats a 67% defect rate. Statistically, that suggests I'll need to replace my remaining receiver three more times to get another good one.

Do you have any contacts within Dish engineering department? Can you find out what they know about this issue?

Ernie

#20 OFFLINE   Ron Barry

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Posted 29 April 2008 - 09:03 PM

Interesting theory Ernie.. though it it was that widespread as you suggest I would expect more people running into it. At this point I personally am not convinced if this is a hardware or software issues. My gut given the facts at the moment is pointing towards software though I have not ruled hardware out.

So how often to you switch between modes? I switch about 3 to 4 times a year and I do that rarely...

Is there a particular PPV you saw this on?
When you say timer deleting.. Are mean saying timer event? Timer is the scheduling piece where a timer event is one particular point in time.
What is your remote address, if it is 1 change it or remove your TV2 antenna for a while to see if the problem goes away. (Ruling out neighbor remote possibility)
<strong class='bbc'>New Member of the 9K club & 922/612 User<br /></strong><span style='font-size: 8px;'>"A release is not a release until it is released." - Me. <br />"To the true believer, no proof is necessary. To the non believer, no proof is sufficient." - Peter James (Derived from a Stewert Chase Quote)</span>




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