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DIRECTV HD Receiver with TiVo (Official Q1 2011 Thread)

132K views 1K replies 121 participants last post by  hdtvfan0001 
#1 ·
Folks, there's precious little to say about the upcoming DIRECTV TiVo-based device that hasn't already been said, but here's the thread for you to say it.

Synopsis of common arguments: (in other words, this ground's already been trodden, do we have to go there again?)
  • Many people like the TiVo interface, especially the list guide.
  • Many people are equally fond of the DIRECTV interface.
  • Many people think that TiVos are easier for them to use.
  • Many people think that DIRECTV DVRs are easier for them to use.
  • Standalone TiVo devices have many features that are appealing to people.
  • No guarantee has been made that any feature from a standalone TiVo will make it to the DIRECTV TiVo.
  • The new device will run on DIRECTV hardware, although we don't know how that will work (we have some ideas).
  • TiVo, Inc. will develop the software for the device and seems to be solely responsible for the user experience.
Ground Rules:
  • This is not a free-for-all. Rudeness will not be tolerated.
  • Remember that all forum rules are still in effect.
  • Do not "bump" this thread.
  • Other threads relating to the DirecTV TiVo-HD Receiver will be closed.
  • If you harp on a particular point to the exclusion of others, your posts may be deleted.

Further, we've learned that the new TiVo for DIRECTV will not have the upgraded user experience seen in the TiVo Premiere.
 
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#527 ·
ffemtreed said:
Multiple CSR's and Retention reps promised me a free Tivo when it was released in the next couple of months. They even tried to set a shipping date with me. Promised me multiple times it was noted in my account notes and there would be no trouble in getting the new Tivo. I know of others who called and asked about the TIVO's as well and were told "a couple of months". This was all before I started following this site. I now know better!

Now you can say that you shouldn't believe CSR's and what they tell you but what does that say about the company??? If I were in charge I would be thoroughly embarrassed about having that kind of reputation.
Sorry to hear that you were "promised" something that didn't happen. I've found that CSRs of most any corporation can never be trusted 100% because often they are young and think they know something when in reality they don't have all of the information themselves. This is not unique to DIRECTV. I always take a promise with a grain of salt until it becomes reality and ultimately consider it mis-information rather than an outright lie. It does stink that you were told this, but I doubt it was widespread (meaning most people calling in were being told this).

To have it notated on your account really indicates that you brought up the conversation. Most people who want a "TiVo" really mean that they want a "DVR" so even if they said they wanted a TiVo, the CSR probably punched them in for an HR2x - and the customer was happy. That's just "in general" though, clearly not true in your specific case.

As for being "thoroughly embarrassed" .. Certainly something went wrong in your case, however, I'm sure there continuous training as employees move in and out of the system. I know that it's something DIRECTV strives to improve all of the time. What I can say is that to a person .. everyone that I have met @ DIRECTV from folks on the front line to Engineers to Executives (CES 2008) have always been customer focused. So making the customer happy (all 19 million) is ingrained in the culture. I'm sure of that.
 
#528 ·
ffemtreed said:
The information I got from a CSR and Retention was well before any official press release from DTV.

Laugh all you want at me for believing what i was told, its DTV that your really laughing at for giving false information.
:lol:

We were given the expected time frame and TiVo didn't make it. You make it out like someone lied to us. :rolleyes:

BTW, I think your anger should be directed at TiVo and not DirecTV...I'm just sayin' :grin:

Mike
 
#529 ·
If you want to be technical, it was a lie. But it was based on forward-looking information and in layman's terms, you can't promise the future. You just can't.
 
#530 ·
Doug Brott said:
Sorry to hear that you were "promised" something that didn't happen. I've found that CSRs of most any corporation can never be trusted 100% because often they are young and think they know something when in reality they don't have all of the information themselves. This is not unique to DIRECTV. I always take a promise with a grain of salt until it becomes reality and ultimately consider it mis-information rather than an outright lie. It does stink that you were told this, but I doubt it was widespread (meaning most people calling in were being told this).

To have it notated on your account really indicates that you brought up the conversation. Most people who want a "TiVo" really mean that they want a "DVR" so even if they said they wanted a TiVo, the CSR probably punched them in for an HR2x - and the customer was happy. That's just "in general" though, clearly not true in your specific case.

As for being "thoroughly embarrassed" .. Certainly something went wrong in your case, however, I'm sure there continuous training as employees move in and out of the system. I know that it's something DIRECTV strives to improve all of the time. What I can say is that to a person .. everyone that I have met @ DIRECTV from folks on the front line to Engineers to Executives (CES 2008) have always been customer focused. So making the customer happy (all 19 million) is ingrained in the culture. I'm sure of that.
Not that it matter much now, but here is how it went down. I wanted all the new channels in HD that were launched. So I called DTV and asked them about it, when they told me I would need a new DVR I said Tivo and they said no that the "new tivo" wasn't ready yet and it would be a 2 -3 months before it was ready. So we just left it at that and said we would wait 2 or 3 month and call back to upgrade.

Well 3 months later we called back to get the new tivo and we were told that they were delayed and it would be another 2 - 3 months before it was released to the public. During the previous 3 months my contract was up so I told the rep to cancel my account because we can get a Tivo and cable card from my local cable company. I can get DTV again when they come out with their tivo. They transferred me to retention who again confirmed the 2 - 3 month window for the "new tivo". They asked me if the promise to give me the new tivo for free when it was released would I give them an extra 2 - 3 months to wait it out! I asked how I would redeem my free tivo and she said its marked in your account notes that all you have to do is call and ask for it. This to me was a great deal because I was expecting to pay 600 or 700 dollars for the box so stayed.

2 -3 month later I called to get my new box and was told it was delayed yet again, but it would be another month. back to retention again and they talked me into a new HR series as a hold over until the tivo was released.

Here we are today!!!!
 
#531 ·
And here we are today. The most likely outcome is that a new TiVo product is not going to see the light of day for at least 3 more months, potentially much longer. My suggestion to you, if I may be blunt, is to accept this and make your decisions from this point forward keeping in mind that there will be no TiVo product in the very near future.
 
#532 ·
Stuart Sweet said:
If you want to be technical, it was a lie. But it was based on forward-looking information and in layman's terms, you can't promise the future. You just can't.
I'm not exactly sure, but I don't think that's technically correct. Doesn't a lie mean that, one knowing the info is false, and two that the info is presented in order to decieve?

I tend to think it's more incorrect than it is a lie...then again it's moot because right or wrong it's still over due. :grin:

Stuart Sweet said:
And here we are today. The most likely outcome is that a new TiVo product is not going to see the light of day for at least 3 more months, potentially much longer. My suggestion to you, if I may be blunt, is to accept this and make your decisions from this point forward keeping in mind that there will be no TiVo product in the very near future.
Reality, what a concept. :lol:

Mike
 
#534 ·
Also, the "promise" appears to me (from the description) to be that you will get a free DIRECTV TiVo from DIRECTV when they are released. Thus far that promise hasn't been broken.

Are you 100% sure that the CSR weren't simply speculating when they said 2-3 months. Definitely don't look for it before June or July, and even then it could be delayed (again).
 
#535 ·
cypherx said:
I don't know why Tivo would want to castrate their product line so bad for DirecTV. With other providers like RCN, Suddenlink, and Virgin Media, they are going no holds bar with the Tivo Premiere technology (and MORE in terms of Virgin Media).

Do you think they backed themselves into the corner when they chose Flash to write the new UI? Perhaps the reference DirecTivo design CPU can't handle flash?

Time for DirecTV and Tivo to be PROACTIVE not REACTIVE.
A stand alone S3 Tivo is superior to any HR2x. Those who say differently haven't used one lately. Which makes sense, since this forum isn't exactly crawling with cable customers. But this D* version of Tivo is missing all the features that their stand alone boxes have. Aside from it's possible improved stability over an HR2x, I'm not sure what the point of it is.

The HR2x is too slow for D*'s GUI. Since the new Tivo is an HR22, it'll probably be too slow for Tivo's regular GUI too. Flash is today what Java was last decade -- lots of hype but in reality it's difficult to use in an embedded design. Too much RAM and processing power is required.

People have been saying that Tivo should be proactive for a while now. Whatever that means. It's not gonna happen.
 
#536 ·
And you know, purely from an economic standpoint, I'd expect the latest TiVo to be superior, because you pay a lot more for it. I've played with a Premiere and you know, it's great and all, I like the HDGUI, I don't like the pervasive ads. There certainly isn't enough to make me switch and pay more.
 
#537 ·
Some of you seem to be arguing about who's to blame for us not already having an MPEG-4 TiVo. If you examine recent history, the answer becomes obvious: DirecTV is clearly the villain.

I became a DirecTV customer in August 2004 because of the HD TiVo. The entrance fee was $1000.

I thought the HR10-250 would be a long-term investment. Then, just a year after I started using it, DirecTV announced it was dropping TiVo as its supplier for HD DVRs in favor of a home-made product which would allow DirecTV to capture all the revenue from DVR rentals. Two and a half years later, we DirecTV subscribers were informed we would need to upgrade to its inferior quasi-TiVo if we wanted full HD service. Divorcing TiVo and foisting on us a cheapo TiVo substitute was like a thumb in the eye to customers who, like me, came on board because of the HD TiVo.

Without the divorce from TiVo in 2005, DirecTV would have had a full-featured MPEG-4 HD TiVo for a long time now.
 
#538 ·
Syzygy said:
Without the divorce from TiVo in 2005, DirecTV would have had a full-featured MPEG-4 HD TiVo for a long time now.
You are correct, but when TiVo changes the rules in the 12th hour .. Well, you see the results. At the end of the day, DIRECTV has an MPEG-4 DVR .. They are happy. DIRECTV does NOT have a TiVo MPEG-4 DVR .. TiVo wasn't happy and (at the time) many customers weren't happy. Time marches on and TiVo finally finds a way back in .. Then falters in the execution.

You may want to lay blame on DIRECTV for this, but when negotiations sour .. and in a bad way .. trust is hard to win back.
 
#539 ·
Syzygy said:
Some of you seem to be arguing about who's to blame for us not already having an MPEG-4 TiVo. If you examine recent history, the answer becomes obvious: DirecTV is clearly the villain.

I became a DirecTV customer in August 2004 because of the HD TiVo. The entrance fee was $1000.

I thought the HR10-250 would be a long-term investment. Then, just a year after I started using it, DirecTV announced it was dropping TiVo as its supplier for HD DVRs in favor of a home-made product <snip>
But DirecTV announced earlier in 2004 they were moving to MPEG4 for HD which the HR10-250 *didn't* support and thus was a short term product at best. I knew that and thus never spent $1000 on an HR10-250. You made the choice to make the investment despite the fact it was a short term product, don't blame DirecTV for that.

And yes, they did drop Tivo...but who didn't in that timeframe. *EVERY* provider went their own way and developed their own DVR instead of paying Tivo licensing fees. If DirecTV didn't they would have been the outlier. *At the time* it was a good business decision because it was the way the whole industry went. And now look at them....DirecTV has a very strong DVR line sans Tivo, agreements with Tivo that prevent them from being sued, and nearly 10 million people use *their* DVR...about a quarter of the entire DVR market. Tivo...less then 5% of the whole market and shrinking every day.

While it may not have been good for you personally and a small band of Tivo'ites, in retrospect it was a great move by DirecTV to go their own way. Nobody can deny this. And if the DirecTV DVR was really a bad product people would have revolted in droves for the past couple years now as their commitments expired. Hasn't happened and uptake on the DVR keeps growing.

Oh well.
 
#540 ·
bdcottle said:
I'm sorry but I think you guys are grossly overestimating the importance of WHDVR / MRV and I'll give you three reasons why.

1. My home only has one TV and I know plenty of other people who only have one TV in their home. Not everyone has a need for 7 DVR's in their home. To me it's a total waste of resources. In this situation it's like a car dealer trying to sell a high end stereo to a deaf person.

2. A lot of people like to keep their DVR programs separate, as in one DVR for the kids programs, one for family programs and one for adult programs in the bedroom. In this situation you don't want DVR's to share programs.

3. Most people aren't tech savvy enough to use WHDVR / MRV. We are very advanced here at DBSTalk but the average user wouldn't be able to figure out how to use it if they knew it was there. I tried to explain it to my brother in law (who has a HR20) but he looked at me like I was trying to explain string theory.

So if the DirecTIVO is missing WHDVR / MRV I don't think it would be a deal breaker for most people.
I can assure you that you are very far off on this aspect. WHDVR drove the equipment shortage and the take rate was so high that they had to increase the cost $100 to make it not as attractive. I think you would be surprised at the take rate still on MRV.

Homes with only 1 TV are in the minority now so products and marketing will be based around the entire home.
 
#541 ·
Stuart Sweet said:
And here we are today. The most likely outcome is that a new TiVo product is not going to see the light of day for at least 3 more months, potentially much longer. My suggestion to you, if I may be blunt, is to accept this and make your decisions from this point forward keeping in mind that there will be no TiVo product in the very near future.
This is all i the past. Its been at least a year and 1/2 since I last talked to DTV about the Tivo. I have accepted the fact that it is pretty much vaporware. With the advancement of the HR series I like them and probably won't trade it in for a tivo unless it has some of the other features that the HR can't do like TIVO2Go.

I have learned to live with the 50 season pass limit by keeping an excel spreadsheet and updating my pass list every couple of months.

The only thing that really still annoys the heck out of me is the slow guide.

Someone else mentioned it as well, I paid hundreds upon hundreds of dollars for the HR10-250 only to have DTV come out a year later and say it doesn't support the new HD channels. That did leave a bitter taste in my mouth. DTV kinda made up for that by giving me a free HR21 when I finally gave up on the tivo.
 
#542 ·
bonscott87 said:
But DirecTV announced earlier in 2004 they were moving to MPEG4 for HD which the HR10-250 *didn't* support and thus was a short term product at best. I knew that and thus never spent $1000 on an HR10-250. You made the choice to make the investment despite the fact it was a short term product, don't blame DirecTV for that.

And yes, they did drop Tivo...but who didn't in that timeframe. *EVERY* provider went their own way and developed their own DVR instead of paying Tivo licensing fees. If DirecTV didn't they would have been the outlier. *At the time* it was a good business decision because it was the way the whole industry went. And now look at them....DirecTV has a very strong DVR line sans Tivo, agreements with Tivo that prevent them from being sued, and nearly 10 million people use *their* DVR...about a quarter of the entire DVR market. Tivo...less then 5% of the whole market and shrinking every day.

While it may not have been good for you personally and a small band of Tivo'ites, in retrospect it was a great move by DirecTV to go their own way. Nobody can deny this. And if the DirecTV DVR was really a bad product people would have revolted in droves for the past couple years now as their commitments expired. Hasn't happened and uptake on the DVR keeps growing.

Oh well.
The only problem with that statement is that 99% of consumers aren't out there checking everyday what DTV is doing and not doing. 95% of customers don't know what mpg2 and mpg4 or any of that mean. You argument is only valid if DTV had warnings during the time of purchase telling consumers that this product won't be supported in a year or two.

you can't assume consumers read this board and know most of the in's and out's of DTV operation and you certainly can't berate them for not knowing.
 
#543 ·
bonscott87 said:
I'll be blunt here coming from my help desk experience: If a guy keeps calling about the same thing I'd pretty much say anything to get him off the phone.

Just saying.... ;)
So you think it was unreasonable to call back and ask after the time they told me to wait passes???? its not like I called every week or month.

PS -- Part of my job responsibilities is supervising a helpdesk staff and if anyone of my techs had the attitude to just say anything to get someone off the phone they would be looking for a new job ASAP. I demand good honest customer service from all of my techs and they know it. Sure they might joke about a specific caller and have the infamous frequent caller, but while on the phone they will do their best to help the customer as best they can.
 
#544 ·
Doug Brott said:
You are correct, but when TiVo changes the rules in the 12th hour .. Well, you see the results...
What do you mean? I'm not aware that TiVo changed the rules before D* gave them the boot. Please explain.
 
#545 ·
As much as I dislike DirecTV, how are they really to blame here? They told Tivo to go ahead and make a box in 2008. Tivo has thus far been too incompetent to deliver. I'd put the blame on Tivo Mgmt. If you have ever worked in a tech company in R&D (I have and still do), you would know that the people who actually build the product have little to no input on anything. All the specs / schedules / budgets / features, etc. come from mgmt and often for political reasons. The engineers are simply told "here are some specs, now go code, monkey boy" :D. Pretty much the only difference between a Jr. R&D engineer and a Sr. R&D engineer is the $$$. The Sr. guy doesn't have any more authority. Even the team lead is generally a liason between the lower guys and mgmt and has no real power.
 
#546 ·
bobcamp1 said:
A stand alone S3 Tivo is superior to any HR2x. Those who say differently haven't used one lately.
I had an HD Tivo for Comcast until March 2010. I prefer my HR20s and HR21. I had more recording issues with my Tivo and the few programs I recorded on it than I did with my HRs which recorded a ton of material. I had trickplay issues on both. I gave up on the Netflix implementation (used a Roku, much better). I had no On Demand on my Tivo yet I did on my HRs. It took more button pushes to achieve what I wanted to acheive on my Tivo than it does on my HRs (not true when the HR20 first came out, but true today).

Oh, and my HD Tivo cost me more per month.

When I dropped Comcast and went to Fios for local cable, internet and telephone, I gave away my Tivo and went with the Fios DVR. I wanted what I was paying for (the On Demand) and the Fios DVR was good enough for the minimal amount I record off Fios (and did off Comcast); the Comcast DVR was pitiful.

Your statement is opinion masquerading as fact.
 
#547 ·
ffemtreed said:
The only problem with that statement is that 99% of consumers aren't out there checking everyday what DTV is doing and not doing. 95% of customers don't know what mpg2 and mpg4 or any of that mean. You argument is only valid if DTV had warnings during the time of purchase telling consumers that this product won't be supported in a year or two.

you can't assume consumers read this board and know most of the in's and out's of DTV operation and you certainly can't berate them for not knowing.
And 99% of the customers think any old DVR is a Tivo. Your point?
 
#551 ·
Shades228 said:
Most don't care either which is why TiVo is a dying brand that will be taken over for it's IP rather than anything else. I hope your TiVo eventually comes and I hope that it's good for you. However I think this may end up being a nostalgia thing for most people if anything.
2 years ago I would have gave a lot for "my tivo" to come. But now I am fairly happy with my HR. I really want to see the new Tivo details before I make a decision on whether I still want it or not. I have a chart put together with the pro's and con's. Once I fill that in I'll see what happens. If I had to guess right now I will be staying with the HR series.

If the two systems worked seamlessly together it would be a no brainer to get it but I highly doubt that is the case.
 
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