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Dish far apart on contract with CBS as deadline nears

20K views 182 replies 50 participants last post by  SomeRandomIdiot 
#1 ·
Dish far apart on contract with CBS as deadline nears

(Reuters.com) - CBS Corp and Dish Network Corp are far apart on talks for a new distribution deal, according to a person with knowledge of the negotiations, setting up the possibility that the satellite provider's subscribers could lose access to the most-watched U.S. TV network next month....

Full Story Here

 
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#127 ·
SomeRandomIdiot said:
CBS gave Dish a short term extension through the Holidays and until early next week.

Was out early yesterday afternoon.

Expected to see it here when i signed on, but apparently no one here knew or posted.
See post #108 - Extended again as well (Thanks for the heads up).

Update: CBS and Dish Network agree to another contract extension

(latimes.com) - There will be no CBS station blackout over the long Thanksgiving holiday weekend.

Full Story Here
 
#131 ·
SomeRandomIdiot said:
CBS has told Dish it will pull it's channels if they cannot agree to terms by 7PM ET Thursday.

Smart on CBS's part as the NFL Season winds down.
I saw it noted elsewhere (Broadband Reports I think) that this last extension by CBS conveniently gets them past their fall ratings cycle so ad rates going forward are determined by those ratings... instead of having lower ratings due to lost carriage... so you can be sure it wasn't CBS being benign with that last extension if true... just them getting past the ratings season so their bottom line wouldn't be affected as much.

Given the winter repeat season... and NBC has the Super Bowl this year... I could see Dish playing hardball well into January if CBS takes the channels down Thursday.... especially since it only affects the O&O markets, so lots of Dish customers will not even notice these channels being gone anyway.
 
#133 ·
Stewart Vernon said:
I saw it noted elsewhere (Broadband Reports I think) that this last extension by CBS conveniently gets them past their fall ratings cycle so ad rates going forward are determined by those ratings... instead of having lower ratings due to lost carriage... so you can be sure it wasn't CBS being benign with that last extension if true... just them getting past the ratings season so their bottom line wouldn't be affected as much.

Given the winter repeat season... and NBC has the Super Bowl this year... I could see Dish playing hardball well into January if CBS takes the channels down Thursday.... especially since it only affects the O&O markets, so lots of Dish customers will not even notice these channels being gone anyway.
Actually the ratings ended Wednesday Night (11/24) prior to Thanksgiving.

We'll see how people in Charlie's hometown of Denver like not being able to see the Broncos on TV (or the January Playoffs for that matter).

As noted previously, the CBS O&Os that air CBS Network Programming is 32.75% of the USA TV Households. It goes up to 37.9% when one adds in the CW.

But regardless, while we know that MVPD subs do not track exactly 1:1 and some markets are stronger and some weaker, it is not out of reason to believe that at minimum 25% Dish's subs will notice CBS-TV missing, and others Nationwide will notice Showtime and shows such as Homeland missing.
 
#134 ·
Of course in cities or metro areas, OTA is viable with an antenna. It is the viewer that is out of town that will have to deal with the loss of a network. When Dish loses an OTA Network, then the viewer should beable to get an out of market station. That is only fair. Then when the issue is resolved, the viewer gets back their network in their DMA. I have a friend in Colton CA, up on a hill, and though he is a good 50 miles from Mt. Wilson, he gets over 100 OTA signals from that location with an antenna. One thing is for sure, the viewer near or in large markets gets the best OTA programming and a lot of choice.
 
#135 ·
mwdxer said:
Of course in cities or metro areas, OTA is viable with an antenna. It is the viewer that is out of town that will have to deal with the loss of a network. When Dish loses an OTA Network, then the viewer should beable to get an out of market station. That is only fair. Then when the issue is resolved, the viewer gets back their network in their DMA. I have a friend in Colton CA, up on a hill, and though he is a good 50 miles from Mt. Wilson, he gets over 100 OTA signals from that location with an antenna. One thing is for sure, the viewer near or in large markets gets the best OTA programming and a lot of choice.
One size does not fit all.

First, there are many areas from Hollywood West through Beverly Hills to Santa Monica to Malibu that cannot get Los Angeles OTA from Mt. Wilson - and there are many more people in that swath than in Colton, CA. And lots of luck getting Denver OTA if you live on the wrong side of the mountain.

Secondly, digital is either there or it isn't, unlike Analog. Multipath ends up killing the Digital Signal in large markets (actually any markets - its just worst in an urban jungle).

The signal in NYC is actually better from 4 Times Square than it is from Empire (less issues), however, Empire gets out further in the fringes (New Jersey, North etc).

Third, Affiliates are franchised - no different than a McDonalds. Just because a franchisee has an agreement to sell McDonalds Burgers in Des Moines, that does not mean they can sell their burgers in Times Square. The affiliate does not have the right to make a deal to sell the franchised programming outside of the areaA they negotiated with the rights holder. That is no different than McDonalds, Taco Bell or any chain/franchisee.

Nowhere in the Constitution is any programming guaranteed as a right. It does not state "life, liberty, and all the programming that is produced".
 
#136 ·
Actually, in Denver, there are translators to deal with carriage outside Denver, in both the mountains and the plains. KCNC, the Denver CBS affiliate's market area claims to cover pretty much everything north of the Palmer Divide (High hills between Denver and Colorado Springs), north to near Cheyenne, west to almost Vail and east to almost Kansas. With teh exception of Denver, Colorado Springs and Grand Junction, most of the rest of Colorado is served by translators.

Translators pretty much serve all the other stations too.

However, while Denver TV stations claim they server a vast area, terrain, buildings, trees and weather play a huge role in receiving OTA signals. I am lucky than most what I can receive at my location. I also live at the edge of a city and have clear line of sight.

SomeRandomIdiot said:
One size does not fit all.

First, there are many areas from Hollywood West through Beverly Hills to Santa Monica to Malibu that cannot get Los Angeles OTA from Mt. Wilson - and there are many more people in that swath than in Colton, CA. And lots of luck getting Denver OTA if you live on the wrong side of the mountain.

Secondly, digital is either there or it isn't, unlike Analog. Multipath ends up killing the Digital Signal in large markets (actually any markets - its just worst in an urban jungle).

The signal in NYC is actually better from 4 Times Square than it is from Empire (less issues), however, Empire gets out further in the fringes (New Jersey, North etc).

Third, Affiliates are franchised - no different than a McDonalds. Just because a franchisee has an agreement to sell McDonalds Burgers in Des Moines, that does not mean they can sell their burgers in Times Square. The affiliate does not have the right to make a deal to sell the franchised programming outside of the areaA they negotiated with the rights holder. That is no different than McDonalds, Taco Bell or any chain/franchisee.

Nowhere in the Constitution is any programming guaranteed as a right. It does not state "life, liberty, and all the programming that is produced".
 
#137 ·
Well if the Pull of WCBS, NYC is going ahead I guess I will go through the Guide tonight and set up my Timers to record them in HQ to the Hard Drive of My DVD Recorder. The Quality is very Watchable for being SD DVD resolution.

Hopefully They will blink and settle.

Cheers
TBoneit
 
#138 ·
nmetro said:
Actually, in Denver, there are translators to deal with carriage outside Denver, in both the mountains and the plains. KCNC, the Denver CBS affiliate's market area claims to cover pretty much everything north of the Palmer Divide (High hills between Denver and Colorado Springs), north to near Cheyenne, west to almost Vail and east to almost Kansas. With teh exception of Denver, Colorado Springs and Grand Junction, most of the rest of Colorado is served by translators.

Translators pretty much serve all the other stations too.

However, while Denver TV stations claim they server a vast area, terrain, buildings, trees and weather play a huge role in receiving OTA signals. I am lucky than most what I can receive at my location. I also live at the edge of a city and have clear line of sight.
Considering Paul Maxwell who has run Mediabiz, The Bridge, CATV Newsweekly, CableFAX, CableVision, MultiChannel News during his almost 50 years in the business and lives outside of Denver, often speaks of those not being able to receive OTA if on the wrong side of the Mountain (which he often claims he is), I have to believe him when it comes to what he is talking about.

Just 7 days ago he wrote "And now I can continue to get Denver TV stations on DirecTV (no DISH here, so no worries about losing the Broncos). That's a big deal because I've got the Continental Divide between me and the transmitters. STELAR gives me another legal five years."
 
#139 ·
One problem the OTA stations have in these disputes is... they will argue "Dish is charging you and not paying us so drop Dish and get us for free" except for the areas noted where people have trouble picking up OTA... and then CBS wants to charge you more to stream their content than Dish charges for all the LiLs combined... so it's hard to be on their side here.

The flip side, as I always note, is if CBS wanted to be on a must-carry and not charge anything and then Dish shouldn't charge consumers either... but that ship sailed already so I won't dwell on it.

Bottom line... short term Dish would suffer if compelling TV is on during this time... long term I think CBS would suffer more. History shows us that people adjust once a dispute settles in and there is relatively little change to customers as they adapt to the "new normal" over time.
 
#140 ·
Stewart Vernon said:
One problem the OTA stations have in these disputes is... they will argue "Dish is charging you and not paying us so drop Dish and get us for free" except for the areas noted where people have trouble picking up OTA... and then CBS wants to charge you more to stream their content than Dish charges for all the LiLs combined... so it's hard to be on their side here.

The flip side, as I always note, is if CBS wanted to be on a must-carry and not charge anything and then Dish shouldn't charge consumers either... but that ship sailed already so I won't dwell on it.

Bottom line... short term Dish would suffer if compelling TV is on during this time... long term I think CBS would suffer more. History shows us that people adjust once a dispute settles in and there is relatively little change to customers as they adapt to the "new normal" over time.
Actually, CBS has put a price on it's product. $5.99. You can get it personally for free over the air (it's up to do whatever you have to do to get that), a personal subscription for $5.99 on the internet or a group buy through Dish at a discount of $2.00 and Dish makes all their customers takes it. It's very clear.

Considering the Former TW Chairman Dick Parsons said that CBS handed them their butt in the dispute and TWC is still paying for it today (and will until next October at a minimum), your view on who loses might be your opinion, but it the real world, with numbers to back it up, is not reality.
 
#141 ·
SomeRandomIdiot said:
Actually, CBS has put a price on it's product. $5.99. You can get it personally for free over the air (it's up to do whatever you have to do to get that), a personal subscription for $5.99 on the internet or a group buy through Dish at a discount of $2.00 and Dish makes all their customers takes it. It's very clear.

Considering the Former TW Chairman Dick Parsons said that CBS handed them their butt in the dispute and TWC is still paying for it today (and will until next October at a minimum), your view on who loses might be your opinion, but it the real world, with numbers to back it up, is not reality.
The only problem with the $5.99 answer is that the last time I checked, it did not include sports and potentially a bunch of their other programs. It was limited to something like 15 current programs plus a library of past shows. So OTA is definitely a better way to go if you can do it.
 
#142 ·
Yep... that online streaming charge CBS is trying to make work has yet to be time-tested... you don't get everything you can get free OTA and it requires high-speed broadband to be of use... and it still costs more to you than Dish charges you as part of your package to get all your LiLs. I don't think CBS is going to be real successful right now with that $5.99 plan.

Meanwhile... using TWC's admittedly failed negotiation efforts as an example doesn't necessarily foretell the future. If TWC said publicly they dropped the ball in the negotiations... that is just further ammo for Dish to hold out because they believe that they are in a stronger position to "do without" and they haven't really been proven wrong yet.

People will say all sorts of stuff... but I can't find any hard evidence that supports Dish being financially harmed by any of their negotiations thus far... they lose some channels for a while, and maybe sometimes a few customers... but they keep ticking along and the better channels come back eventually.
 
#143 ·
hasbeen29650 said:
The only problem with the $5.99 answer is that the last time I checked, it did not include sports and potentially a bunch of their other programs. It was limited to something like 15 current programs plus a library of past shows. So OTA is definitely a better way to go if you can do it.
Stewart Vernon said:
Yep... that online streaming charge CBS is trying to make work has yet to be time-tested... you don't get everything you can get free OTA and it requires high-speed broadband to be of use... and it still costs more to you than Dish charges you as part of your package to get all your LiLs. I don't think CBS is going to be real successful right now with that $5.99 plan.
That makes a $2.00 Group Buy an even BETTER deal!

A steal at more than 66% off!
 
#144 ·
Would 66% off $1 million per subscriber be a good deal? Or would the channel still be overpriced?

Setting a price of $5.99 does not mean that the channel content is worth $5.99.
 
#145 ·
James Long said:
Would 66% off $1 million per subscriber be a good deal? Or would the channel still be overpriced?

Setting a price of $5.99 does not mean that the channel content is worth $5.99.
Considering that MVPD subscriber watch local station programming 35% of the time, based on straight percentages, CBS would easily be worth $5.99.

Now, based on people that watch it, the ESPN package is not worth close to $10 a month for most people either.
 
#147 ·
Update: CBS to go dark on Dish Network Today

(money.cnn.com) - CBS, the country's highest-rated television network, has set a very public deadline in its dispute with Dish Network: 7 p.m. Eastern, Thursday....

Full Story Here

 
#148 ·
From other stories it appears that the CBS O&O stations will go dark this evening, as well as CBS Sports and Showtime. While I'm not affected by the CBS stations in this deal, I could get it OTA if needed and sometimes do now if we are having storms.

CBS Sports is a yawner for me too as they don't have much boxing on, or at least no matches that have caught my eye.

Showtime going dark is a total leverage move as it is an ala carte Premium channel. I just got a 1/2 off deal on that and have to wonder whether that will be honored when SHO comes back on. If not I'll just do what I was doing when they made the offer which is cancel SHO. At most I watch the live boxing and will miss it, and a very rare movie. To me it is worth the $7 1/2 off price and no more.

But the good part of these events is that it allows us the opportunity to evaluate what we watch and how much we pay for it. Coupled with the unofficial increases after the 1st of the year I know I'm carefully looking at my subscription level to see if I need to stay at the level I'm at or start trimming some things back. If the VOD was a bit better, and the cable type channels reran their most popular shows a bit more often, I could get rid of the SuperJoey and save $10/month. That SJ is just sitting there, not connected to any TV just for the extra 2 tuners.
 
#149 ·
I took advantage of the free one month CBS Cyber Monday trial on December 1. It is good for us because we really only use CBS for prime time series. The big disadvantage is that as it is internet streaming it is not easy to get it to a TV. The Samsung smart TV internet browser doesn't work well enough and you can't use streaming devices like Roku. However, I did find a solution that works perfectly - screen mirroring on my 2014 Samsung UHD TV from a CBS app on my Galaxy S5. I can watch episodes the day after with substantially reduced ads, not perfect but solves the problem for free. Worst case if it's along blackout would be $5.99 for January.

Take that Moonves!
 
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