0x1214 - Native Video Display Option Removed

Many TVs cannot display full pixel mapping on 720p sources, resulting in a slightly zoomed image. 1080i ESPN looks great on my set, YMMV.

 

Just curious, which brand/model TV do you have?

 

Not sure how this is relevant. All DTV output is now in 1080i, so what a display does with 720p is moot.

 

Just another AT&T brain fart. With Native On the receiver output was "automatically" changed based on what channel the customer was watching. With Native removed we now have to "manually" set the receiver output.

 

True, but I can’t imagine setting the DVR to only output 720p when the majority of content is 1080i. Down-scaling 1080i to 720p does not sound desirable to me. And the hassle of changing the output to force 720p for 720p broadcasts does not sound very desirable to me either. I don’t find the PQ of 720p up-scaled to 1080i to be particularly bad, IMO. Native option is gone, and since it was removed, I don’t find outputting everything in 1080i so bad that I can’t live with it.

 

Only if you find the PQ so bad you can’t live with it.

 

I first became aware of this change via the thread NFL ST 2019 ??? and its discussion re: frame rate changes. After reading all 12 pages of this thread I have the following thoughts/observations/question.

1. Regardless of what my signature says (I need to update it) I have a Genie 2, a 4K Genie Mini, and 2 Genie Minis (one of which will soon be replaced with a 4K Genie Mini)
2. Since becoming a DTV subscriber around 1995 I chose to use Native On to reduce the number of conversions of the signal, figuring that in general, fewer conversions are better and that my TV best knows what it should do with a signal.
3. I watch a lot of sports and prefer to view in 720p vs 1080i primarily due to motion blur.
4. My A/V chain includes an Onkyo TX-NR585 AVR and a Sony XBR-85X850F TV. The AVR passes through video signals unaltered, allowing the TV to do any needed conversions.
5. The DTV "hidden menu" that you access via holding down Select 8-10 seconds lets you view your Native setting, but not change it. With this firmware change it is seemingly permanently set to "Off".
6. At least one of the DTV help screens still points to modifying your Native setting. Menu->Display Options->TV Resolution->More Info. So AT&T still has cleanup to do.
7. I believe that the AT&T Community Forum post referenced earlier (Native On/Off Video Display Option Removed From Latest 0x1214 HR44/54 Update, Is This Permanent?) holds a clue to why this was removed. From the AT&T support rep: "When Native Mode is OFF, the resolution stays at a fixed value and prevents the TV from having to breakdown and rebuild its scaling pipeline, providing a more seamless transition between channel changes. This will minimize black or blue or grey screens, artifacts such as screen flickering or audio distortions, and longer delay with channel change." As has been stated by others in this thread, I believe it is primarily a support cost reduction given that the vast majority of DTV customers are more sensitive to the noted issues than picture quality.
8. I wholeheartedly agree that the simplest change would have been to push out an update forcing Native to off but leaving the Native option present for those of us who care about it.

I have one question:

1. If I go through the Info menu options to set the resolution to 720p for a 720p channel (say Fox), will the channel have been converted to 1080i and then back to to 720p? While it seems silly to do so it could be done intentionally or accidentally. I will do a visual experiment to see but am wondering technically.

@James Long - To answer your question: "Are NFL Sunday Ticket feeds in the native mode for the network carrying the game that weekend? Are Fox games 720p while CBS feeds are 1080i? If so, how well did your receivers (when Native On was available) handle going back and forth between Fox and CBS feeds?" the answer is "Yes, they are in native mode." I was cognizant (visually, time-lag) of the resynchronization that happened when changing but didn't experience it often as I typically don't switch between on-going games. Net: It didn't bother me.

 

Thanks. I hadn't actually considered that it would leave the resolution at 720p - which is obvious in hindsight. Need to ponder.....

 

Sony 900e

 

Add me to the list of people that didn't notice this was happening until Sunday Ticket.

Mine was stuck at 1080i and something just didn't look right about some of the 720p games. Sigh maybe I gotta try out them Hoppers again.

 

Don’t believe the Hoppers have Native

 

Or NFLST.

 

NO DISH receiver has ever had native...

 

Tivo does and there is a CLEAR difference in PQ.
D* needs to reverse it's disastrous decision of eliminating the native option.

 

Does’t TiVo make a DirecTV compatible model? What is the model number? I need to research making a change.

Edit: Sorry, I see there is a thread here discussing the DTV Tivo.

 

You cant get it anymore and it is a Tivo Software from 3-4 revisions ago