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1080P receiver coming soon ?

Discussion in 'DISH™ High Definition Discussion' started by ken310, Mar 7, 2006.

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  1. Stewart Vernon

    Stewart Vernon Roving Reporter Staff Member Super Moderator DBSTalk Club

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    Ummm... no it isn't. I would love to see the portion of law cited that makes that legal. It is sometimes debatable about making "backup" copies of things you own... but I can't fathom any reality where it would be legal to backup something you don't own!
     
  2. ken310

    ken310 Legend

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    I guess I need to go read tv manual and maybe visit Sony or ? but are you saying that Sony is using the 1080p for promo and I'll not see it on my tv? If so why did they bother?
     
  3. ken310

    ken310 Legend

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    I'll be glad to go find it for you later but if you rent a movie the law allows you to copy it to view it later, ONLY.
     
  4. James Long

    James Long Ready for Uplink! Staff Member Super Moderator DBSTalk Club

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    I believe the point is that it will be a long time until you have anything in 1080p to watch on any 1080p TV set - regardless of brand. The market seems to have settled on 1080i/30 and 720p/60.

    I would like to see movies in 1080p/24 to match the frame rate of the original film ... but as long as the satellite receivers output 1080i it would just shift the burden of filling the extra frames from the encoder to the receiver.

    1080p/24 would actually be less data than 1080i/30 and easier to compress as one would have sequential lines to work with. But with all transmissions the trick is making it look good on every TV the picture is likely to grace.

    BTW: It will be interesting for you to find a law that allows one to copy a rental to view later. Good luck on that one. One might also take a look at the rental contract when you borrowed the movie and see if it allows copying.
     
  5. Rogueone

    Rogueone Hall Of Fame

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    1080p displays are not really that hard a concept :)

    1080/60p displays will become common because the technology they are provided by (LCD, Plasma, etc.) work at a 60 fps speed. All a 1080/60p set is, is the electronics of a 720p set(also 60p) upgraded to display 1080. The other basic parts would be the same, such as how long individual pixels stay lit etc. When a 720p signal comes in, it'll upconvert all frames to 1080p. When 1080i comes in, a 1080p set will take in the whole frame, draw it twice (since there are only 30 frames) and this should eliminate the streaking some people see with interlaced displays.

    And, in the future, a PS3/XB360 type device may well do 1080p native, but no reason to expect TV's/movies to ever do 1080/60p. They are 24p for a reason, mostly cost. If they suddenly started recording at 60p, every movie projector would need to be replaced to view the movie properly. And even in a digital world, imagine the extra HD space or Bandwidth needed for a 60p recording versus a 24p one?

    Movie companies are looking at digital distibution of movies, and 24p will cost them a lot less money than 60 (well over half the bandwidth per movie), not likely they'll cough that up. and TV is the same, most non sports use the same cameras, or at best us a 30p camera. At some point, using a 1080/60p "camera" might make fiscal sense, but it's still likely they'll "produce" it down to 24p. At some distant future point (15-20 yrs might be reasonable) maybe the fiscal costs are so slight as to not be worth the effort. But technologically, there's no reason to ever change, as there isn't any benefit to the viewer of having 60 frames except in high speed programming like sports. The brain simply can't see the extra frames, so they'd be wasted space.
     
  6. ken310

    ken310 Legend

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    Rogueone,

    Thanks for making this relatively simple and saving me hours in class :)
     
  7. Allen Noland

    Allen Noland New Member

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    1080p receivers were kind of talked about at the CES press conference. I don't remember what they said, but you can view the press conference Q&A here.
     
  8. Jim5506

    Jim5506 Hall Of Fame

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    All digital displays take any interlaced content received and and transcode it to progressive.

    DLP, LCD, and plasma are natively progressive displays.

    Only CRT displays actually display 1080i as an interlaced image.
     
  9. ken310

    ken310 Legend

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    So I'm guessing the DLP, LCD, and plasma that are natively progressive displays actually display in 720p?
    After researching it I've found that my 196 lb Sony CRT is actually 1080i, 720p, 480p, and 480i.
     
  10. Rogueone

    Rogueone Hall Of Fame

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    currently, for the most part, yes. Until the past year, the digital technologies have simply been too costly for mainstream 1080p displays. But you should be able to find a few under $10000 now.

    digital displays are natively 60p since they do not run interlaced. 720 versus 1080 is a matter how many "pixels" are on the panel in question. it costs much more to make a 1080 panel in any of the digital displays because the difficutlies in manfacturing. Digital displays don't have to be any set resolution, just look at laptop displays, they are all sorts of sizes. It just depends on what the intended end use is which determines panel size and pixel count.

    as for the Sony CRT, to be able to do 720p and 1080i, the tube has to be built closer to PC monitor quality levels than standard TV quality. It takes a lot more expense to design a CRT to operate at both 30 and 60 fps. This is why so few CRT sets do 720p without upscaling it to 1080i.
     
  11. harsh

    harsh Beware the Attack Basset

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    Looking at the D* website regarding MPEG4 technology from back in October 2005, it would appear that they were touting it as a breakthrough new technology.

    I guess until someone implements it in hardware, it is just so much theory.
     
  12. harsh

    harsh Beware the Attack Basset

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    You can now buy 1080p LCD and LCoS televisions for well under $5000. The best picture I've seen recently was a 60" Sony Grand Wega SRXD television for under $4000. The 50" model goes for under $2900.

    Two reasons not to bother with a 1080p receiver:

    1. Too few devices accept 1080p content
    2. Most all 1080p devices already handle the deinterlacing internally as part of their noise reduction systems
     
  13. tomcrown1

    tomcrown1 Hall Of Fame

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    the 37 inch Westinghouse is 1080P for $1800
     
  14. normang

    normang Icon

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    Actually, its not.. if it were up to Hollywood, even movies you bought could not be backed up. And if you damage the disc, tough, buy a new one. No warranty on DVD's..


    Most DVD's now are Dual Layer, which is about 9gb, however in actual data, its more like a little over 8gb. Even at that, you might get 30 minutes of uncompressed HD on one of those. Then even if you placed HD data on one, you don't have anything other than a computer that might play it, and your TV would have to support the resolution of the computer to watch it.

    Pocket Dish is merely a portable means of storing programming for watching on-the-go, during those times when watching TV isn't an option. Its not a means of archiving or storing your favorite shows for any length of time..

    A terabyte is a 1000gb. At the cheapest, your looking at a couple 500gb drives which will cost you about $600 and up. If you wanted to have any level of redundancy, you would have to raid or mirror it, which adds more drives increasing your costs not only for hard drives, but perhaps the I/O cards or software needed to mirror or raid those devices, so should one die, you reduce the chances of losing everything you've stored.
     
  15. ken310

    ken310 Legend

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    If Hollywood had their way a VCR with record would have never been allowed. Can we PLEASE if necessary debate this on another post? I'm getting a headache just trying to understand 1080i vs p let alone an issue that's the courts are still TRYING to define and they are selling 2 models of the pocket dish that are supposed to allow archiving? Personally I don't care I'm not going that way but that can be another post also.

    From what I understand the following is true?

    1080i ~ one field is 540 lines even line numbers scanned and then one field of 540 odd line numbers scanned. 60 fps 540 lines scanned in 1/60th of a second.

    1080p ~ all 1080 lines scanned together 30 fps (field or frames)

    With 1080p all 1080 lines odd and even are refreshed but in order top to bottom at once. No even then odd thing going on like i.

    What seems to me to be equal? 540 at 60 fps would equal 1080 at 30fps?

    Then there is the compression which is another important variable.

    :grin:
     
  16. ApK

    ApK Icon

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    A single progressive scan frame looks much clearer than two interlaced fields, and progressive scan images show motion better (in general), What is even better is 720p/60, or if they could squeeze it in, 1080p/60 which would show a complete progressive scan frame 60 times a second, making motion even smoother.

    here's an interesting article:
    http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/volume_10_4/feature-article-hdtv-time-to-buy-part-one-10-2003.html
     
  17. ken310

    ken310 Legend

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    That's my understanding as well. One thing that still has me a little confused is the "super fine dot pitch" (dpi) I believe that's right ? I's been a while but I do remember some of this from my computer search (best laptop) a year or so ago. If a screen has more (finer) pixels wouldn't that translate in the end re: the refresh rate?

    Next is the original format and compression used before it is uncompressed at the receiver/tv?
     
  18. jcrobso

    jcrobso AllStar

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    1080p takes a lot of band width!!!!!!! For OTA the band width for 1080i/60 and 720p/30 is around 45mb/sec. To get 1080p/30 you will need about 90mb/sec and to get 108p/60 the bit rate is over 124mb/sec. This is with MPG2 encoding.
    Even with MPG4 encoding it will be hard to get 1080p.
    If you TV only does 720p then you gain very little from 1080p.
    Video camers do do 1080p/60 but only 1080p/30 and and 1080p/24. From what I have heard so far HD-DVDs wil be 1080p/24, the same as film.
     
  19. olgeezer

    olgeezer Guest

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    Only 1080p/24 and 1080p/30 are formats.
     
  20. ken310

    ken310 Legend

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    So I guess? the Bue-ray is 1080p/30?
    I don't see the fps specs included with a lot of the tech info available.
     
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