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1080P VOD

Discussion in 'DIRECTV General Discussion' started by HDTVFreak07, Aug 15, 2008.

  1. Aug 18, 2008 #81 of 318
    cartrivision

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    Forget 1080p/24 and 1080p/60. Now that many of the new TVs on the market have 120Hz refresh rates, when is DirecTV going to provide us with 1080p/120 programming?
     
  2. Aug 18, 2008 #82 of 318
    CKNAV

    CKNAV Godfather

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    How are you guys seeing the HD 1080 Test channel. I select Directv on Demand but do not see HD 1080 channel at all.
     
  3. Aug 18, 2008 #83 of 318
    bobnielsen

    bobnielsen Éminence grise

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    You can find it in the online On Demand scheduler at http://www.directv.com. If you place the cursor on "TV Schedule" at the top, it will show up in the drop-down box.
     
  4. Aug 18, 2008 #84 of 318
    RAD

    RAD Well-Known Member

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    Dripping...
    Channel 1080 is now showing up as a selectable channel.
     
  5. Aug 18, 2008 #85 of 318
    BattleZone

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    No such programming exists anywhere.

    The 120Hz refresh rate is used because it is a perfect multple of both 60 and 24. 60 fps shows have each frame displayed twice, and 24 fps shows have each frame displayed 5 times*, perfectly duplicating the original intended frame-rate with no judder.


    *This is assuming the TV handles 24p correctly. Only a few 2007 and a bunch of 2008 model TVs do this.
     
  6. Aug 18, 2008 #86 of 318
    muadib

    muadib Cool Member

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    This doesn't work either. I guess it really is gone.
     
  7. Aug 18, 2008 #87 of 318
    dennisj00

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    Channel 1080 is now there -- I had to add it to my Favorites list.
     
  8. Aug 19, 2008 #88 of 318
    harsh

    harsh Beware the Attack Basset

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    Before everyone gets too far afield on what 1080p means, I feel compelled to point out that 1080p/60 is not defined for OTA broadcast. It is defined for DBS, but probably won't be used.

    Possible ATSC OTA frame rates for 1080p video are:

    23.976
    24
    29.97 (the actual NTSC frame rate)
    30

    While 60fps is defined for 720p OTA, it likely won't be used either.

    The relevant ATSC standards are A/53 (Part 4) for OTA and A/81 for DBS.

    I'm not sure whether DBS (or OTA for that matter) uses a frame rate of 29.97 or 30 (or both).

    Note also that the field rate with 1080i is 60 fields per second which may allow the eye to make up for having the same image on display for 1/30th of a second at a whack. Those bothered by fluorescent lighting and DLP color wheels may appreciate this.

    All of this kind of points to the idea that native mode is a pipe dream as evidenced by the number of televisions that can't handle unusual scan rates.
     
  9. Aug 19, 2008 #89 of 318
    betterdan

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    Yep I just checked and I no longer see it online.
     
  10. Aug 19, 2008 #90 of 318
    DarinC

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    Huh? 60fps is what Fox, ABC, ESPN, etc., are all already using (well, technically, 59.94 fps). You are right that 60 FPS isn't a valid ATSC format for 1080x1920, but it is the typical nominal framerate for 720p. Even at twice the framerate, it still takes less bandwidth than 1080x1920 at 30fps.
     
  11. Aug 19, 2008 #91 of 318
    lovswr

    lovswr Godfather

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    For those of you who can now see Channel 1080, what is on it? Also what is the picture quality like?
     
  12. Aug 19, 2008 #92 of 318
    Maverickster

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    I guess I'm not doing a good job explaining either! HA! Let's take it as a given that the VAST majority of 1080p HDTVs currently in circulation made before the 2008 model year cannot properly handle 1080p/24 (because that's true). Let's also assume (because you may very well be right on this; I just don't know) that the highest quality resolution the HRxx can output in a format that can be handled by those TVs is 1080i/60 (1080p/60 or 1080p/30 apparently being beyond the capabilities of the HRxx; again, I'm not questioning you on this). Assuming that to be the case, then offering content in 1080p/24 is pointless to the vast majority of 1080p HDTV owners out there between (a) 1080p/24 content "converted" by the HRxx to 1080i/60 and (b) 1080i/60 content output by the HRxx natively. So, really, we (we being the majority of 1080p HDTV owners) ARE plumb out of luck and the additon of 1080p/24 gets us nowhere. Right?

    Thanks. That's helpful.

    --Mav

    P.S. For those of you who were asking the question, I have an HR20-700 with the latest NR (no CE) and was able to d/l and watch Bucket List last night. When I had "native on", it put it in 720p. When I had "native off", it put it in whatever format I asked it to -- including 1080i.
     
  13. Aug 19, 2008 #93 of 318
    harsh

    harsh Beware the Attack Basset

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    That certainly wasn't expected!
     
  14. Aug 19, 2008 #94 of 318
    gregjones

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    His TV negotiated 720p. This is part of the same reason that his TV didn't negotiate 1080p24.
     
  15. Aug 19, 2008 #95 of 318
    gregjones

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    No. 1080p24 the format gets you nowhere because your TV doesn't support it. The less compression they used to produce the 1080p24 content and the 5.1 channel surround are definite advantages, even if you watch them in 1080i.

    DirecTV can't make your TV do something that it won't. But you can still gain some benefits by cleaner material and a better soundtrack.
     
  16. Aug 19, 2008 #96 of 318
    Maverickster

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    Right. Understood. My point is that my TV is less than a year old and is representative of the vast majority of 1080p TVs out there. It's a Panasonic 58PZ700U -- Panasonic's flagship model for the 2007 model year. Short of buying a Kuro, I can't think of any TV I could have bought (until the 2008s were released, anyway) that would not have had this problem. And that's my point. Again, most Bluray players handle this widely-known limitation by giving the user the option of having it output at 1080p/24 or 1080p/60.

    --Mav
     
  17. Aug 19, 2008 #97 of 318
    DarinC

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    From my perspective, the advantages are:
    It compresses better (so you either get higher quality in the same bandwidth, or the same quality in less bandwidth); you give those (admittedly few) customers native format (was HD a waste when a only a very small percentage had HD equipment?); and of course, marketing.

    Personally, I think anything that improves compression efficiency is worth persuing. If that also delivers a native signal an admittedly small perdentage of customers who can properly use it, then that's just icing. As time goes on, that group will grow.

    That's interesting. Hard to know at this point if that's simply a software issue (units not yet updated to show some kind of modified LED combo to indicate 1080p), or if the content actually was 720p. When in native mode, did your display also indicate it was getting a 720p signal?
     
  18. Aug 19, 2008 #98 of 318
    DarinC

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    Well that's a problem for the TV manufacturers to solve, but hopefully as more content becomes available in 24p, and more consumers become aware that their sets aren't capable of properly displaying it, the market will drive them to do something about it.

    Here is a list of displays that are reported to properly handle 1080p. There are quite a few, but they do tend to be higher end units. FWIW, it's not even fair to assume the 2008 units fix the issue. I just ordered a 2008 Mits DLP set, and there aren't ANY RP sets on the list. So not only can my old set not handle it, my new one that I haven't even received yet probably won't either (at least it's not reported to). But I still think it's worthwhile to send 24fps content in 24p.
     
  19. Aug 19, 2008 #99 of 318
    Maverickster

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    All good points, although I wonder which would result in a better PQ: 1080p/24 source "converted" by the HRxx to 1080i/60 or 1080i/60 source not converted by the HRxx at all....

    Actually, I don't know the answer to that. I'll take a look when I get home. I actually didn't look at the HRxx to see what the lights said; I just looked at what the TV told me (which was 720p). There are a whole host of variables here, though. My receiver takes everything lower than 720p and upconverts it to 720p (no way to turn that off -- in market for new receiver); it passes 720p, 1080i and 1080p natively; so I suppose, it's possible the HRxx was outputting anywhere between 480i and 720p. I'll take a look when I get home to see what "the lights say" it's outputting.

    --Mav
     
  20. Maverickster

    Maverickster Godfather

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    Sep 20, 2007
    Well, "quite a few" is relative. There are "quite a few" CURRENT MODEL YEAR sets (the bulk of which are LCDs), but the prior model year list is extremely short -- a couple of projectors, the Kuro plasmas, and the Samsung LCDs (18 sets total). My set is a "higher end unit" and doesn't do it. A 2008 Mitsubishi DLP is a "higher end unit" and doesn't seem to do it. And that's my point.

    --Mav
     

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