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Discussion in 'Sports Programming and Events' started by coolman302003, Apr 19, 2015.
Atlanta is toast. To many players down at this point.
Yeah... that was funny... oh, and thanks for the compliment on my picture.
I started wondering, as it looks almost definite that Cleveland will beat Atlanta now... assuming that happens, LeBron will be in his 5th consecutive finals (4 at Miami + 1 now)... he was there a 6th non-consecutive time in his first stint with the Cavs.
So, anyway... 5 finals in a row... that got me to thinking... Outside of players on those Celtics teams back in the day that were in the finals 10 times in a row... are there any other players who have been (win or lose) to the finals 5 straight times?
I can't think of anyone in the modern era... my brain is just fuzzy enough, but I think even though the Lakers/Celtics played seemingly every year back in the 1980s... I think there were just enough breaks in there that they didn't both go that many times in a row.
I tried to find a stat... but I only find team stats. It looks like no teams went more than 4 times in a row to the finals... which would seem to answer my question with a "no" but I know some players switch teams, so I'm allowing for that... which is in fact how LeBron is going to get to his 5th in a row.
Kerr had 4 straight .... 3 with Chicago and 1 with San Antonio.
LAL & Boston guys had 4 straight, too, in the 80s.
Yeah but pretty easy to make an argument it's much easier to get to that many in a row in the east today than it's ever been otherwise on either side. Especially now that the first round is 7 instead of 5.... Less chance of one team catching just enough fire to cause an upset. Lakers or celtics from the 80s would have made the finals every year bar major injury to multiple stars these last six years in the east. Heck Jordan's Chicago teams too...
Yeah... I know it's arguably easier to do it in the east... but that said, IF it is so much easier to do it in the east... why hasn't anyone done it? I'm not about to argue in any form that the east isn't overall weaker than the west... heck, this year even at the top I think the best team in the east might only be the third best team in the west... but that said, even if it does weaken a little the stat of LeBron (potentially) going to 5 straight finals... it's still something that I don't think anyone has done outside of those Celtic Teams from before my time. That has to be worth something.
Arguably, IF Jordan had not retired... it would be hard to make a case that they couldn't have had 8 straight finals and probably 8 straight championships. I was glad for the Houston team that won back-to-back those in-between years there that broke up Jordan's two three-peats... but I can't argue those Houston teams were substantially better than what the Bulls would have fielded with Jordan. But that's a "what if" situation.
I'm not even the biggest LeBron fan, frankly... I'm not a hater... but I don't feel the same about him as I've felt about other NBA greats. To me, the consistent feeling I had with the greats... was, like with Jordan... when I was rooting for the Bulls, he always hit the shot... when I was rooting against the Bulls? Jordan also always hit the shot. I've rooted for and against LeBron in different matchups, but I never feel like he's "the man" in those scenarios in quite the same way I felt about others.
All that said, though... it seems like something worth acknowledging if he gets to his 5th straight finals. Also, considering this Cleveland team (with all the injuries) might not be substantially better than the previous Cleveland team he took to the finals... it's arguably twice he will have been the primary reason why his teams got to the finals. He was a big part of the Heat's 4-finals-in-a-row, but you can make the case he was part of a stronger team there.
Anyway, it's just random things to think about while the playoffs have hit a temporary boring streak where it looks all-but-inevitable who the finalists will be, but we still have to play a couple more games anyway!
Regarding the controversial call (including clarification) late in the 2nd quarter, of game 3 of ECF...
Howard flagrant foul clarification during Game 4 of WCF...
The Finals matchups are all set now…
Golden State vs. Cleveland
Game 1: Thu. June 4, Cleveland at Golden State, 9:00 PM , ABC
Game 2: Sun. June 7, Cleveland at Golden State, 8:00 PM, ABC
Game 3: Tue. June 9, Golden State at Cleveland, 9:00 PM, ABC
Game 4: Thu. June 11, Golden State at Cleveland, 9:00 PM, ABC
Game 5 *: Sun, June 14, Cleveland at Golden State, 8:00 PM, ABC
Game 6 *: Tue, June 16, Golden State at Cleveland, 9:00 PM, ABC
Game 7 *: Fri, June 19, Cleveland at Golden State, 9:00 PM, ABC
* = if necessary
All times are Eastern
Above results from http://www.basketball-reference.com/friv/playoffs.cgi
Warriors' Thompson suffers concussion in Game 5
I was surprised Thompson didn't go through concussion protocol during the game. Either the protocol is flawed OR they bypassed it. Nobody wants to be watching a game where a person goes back out with a concussion and something worse happens. They need to tighten this up.
Meanwhile, on a lighter note...
The Warriors don't really beat themselves. They have off-shooting days, and can be beat... but you have to bring your A-game even when they have an off shooting night... so I think it will be hard for Cleveland to do that 4 out of 7 nights. IF Kyrie Irving is healthy again, I could certainly see Cleveland being able to take a couple of games... but I'll be legitimately surprised if the Warriors do not win the series.
Those Celtics teams from before your time where really all that great. Who did they have Russell, Cousy, Jones, Havlicek, Sherman etc.
Meanwhile my Knicks had those players.
They did check out Thompson after that horrible foul, a knee to the head. He came back out and looked in a world of pain.
I do believe concussion symptoms can take hours or days to show up. Fortunately, I have no personal experience with this!
That's the thing, though... about concussions... the symptoms can delay AND you also are at the mercy of the player who is taught to be "tough" and "play hurt" to be honest about his symptoms before they get worse... and whatever we don't know about concussions, we do seem to know that if you get/have one and then get another one in short order, it is MUCH worse for you.
The problem in all sports is... athletes are told to "suck it up" and so they do, especially if they are playing in an important game... and the team wants a player out there... and the doctors usually work for the team... so it's really easy to clear a player in that moment.
Now I'm not saying anything nefarious or uncaring happened... but I am saying it was weird to see Curry come back the game before after the fall he took... and then to see Thompson take that knee to the head and they didn't check him out nearly as long as Curry and he was back on the bench ready to go... then clearly during the postgame when he literally said he was dizzy... that meant he should have been ruled out on that alone... the symptoms that came later in the evening were just icing on that cake.
I remember stories about players like Joe Montana who took a hit, went back into the game and completed a scoring drive, and didn't remember any of that the next day. We still have movies and TV shows where someone gets knocked out and someone always says "he's just knocked out, he'll be ok" as if that's a thing! I'm pretty sure the average Joe on the street still believes that... that you can take a major hit to the head, be dizzy or lose consciousness and all is well.
There may not be blame due in this case with the Warriors... but if there is a policy that allows anyone taking a blow to the head to opt out of the policy OR through semantics of not calling it a concussion allows them to not go through any protocol... then that's a meaningless policy to me.
Love or hate it, I think they need a consistent way to process these kinds of things. It's one thing when someone falls on a leg or arm and they can take x-rays and stress-test and figure out what is or isn't wrong... they can't really do that with concussions, and people can't see the damage so they need something in the "better safe than sorry" camp to me.
Had Kerr put Thompson in after the injury, I'd have had a fit. Thompson probably insisted on going back to the bench to show support for the team, and just to be there. He was in no condition to play.
A lot has been learned about concussions in the last decade, and there is more t come.
Yeah, that's why I'm not reaming them completely... since he didn't go back into the game. The question of the night, however, was... IF the game had gotten close, would they have put Thompson back into the game? They don't have to answer that now, of course. Hopefully he really is okay by the time the finals start.
Dunno. I sure hope not. He may have been allowed to go back to the bench, with no clearance to play. So, even if Kerr in a lapse of judgment wanted to put him in, he may have said the Doc/trainer says "no". I hope that's how that would have worked. Looking at the kid, you could tell he could barely stand. And I am sure his neck muscles are sore as all get out.
What's weird to me... and why I go back to Curry.... Curry took a nasty fall to the floor. It looked bad... and could have been worse... so they ran through all the tests and stuff and held him out for more than 30 minutes of real-time while evaluating him before allowing him to return to the game. He appeared after the game to be fine, but sore... and that probably was okay.
Thompson, on the other hand, gets a knee to the head... goes down... seems woozy, and is almost sent back into the game except he was bleeding from his ear! They were in the process of sending him right back into the game at that moment... it was the blood that prevented it.
So, then they go back and stitch him up... and he comes back to sit on the bench... but never comes in the game since they didn't need him at that point... but after the game he seemed off, and apparently had symptoms the next day or so too.
For as nasty as the Curry fall looked... I'm willing to bet the hardwood floor is technically "softer" than the Houston player's knee that Thompson took. Why Thompson wasn't immediately evaluated for the same length of time Curry had been the game previous is what concerns me most. It's like they took a worse head injury and went easier on the examination.
Had he not been bleeding... Thompson would have gone back into that game. So I hate to beat the deceased horse here... but someone should answer to that in terms of how that escapes any protocol that might be in place.
That said... hopefully Thompson will be okay for his own sake by game time next week.
That's pretty ripe speculation, Stewart! I cannot prove otherwise, but I don't think he was going to be played again that night regardless of the blood show or not.
In any event, the poor guy is out for some time. I think it may not be due solely to concussion; the neck was torqued way beyond reason.
It is speculation on the latter, when he came back after being stitched up... but I don't think it is speculation on the first part. He was coming back onto the court when someone noticed him bleeding from the ear. Clearly they hadn't spent much time at all with him at that point because they had to stitch him up to stop the bleeding. I'm not even saying there is "blame" per se... but at a minimum it appears to me their protocol is flawed when two different players on two consecutive games appear to have had two different processes.
I also wonder... Curry's parents and wife were at the game... and his father went back to the locker room initially. Were Clay Thompson's parents at the game? I almost get a hint of maybe it was because of the presence of Del Curry that they were more careful (apparently) with Steph... but if no one was advocating for Klay, they might have rushed through protocol.
Supposition for sure on my part there... but can't help but wonder.
Can LeBron win it all now doing it all by himself mostly? ....
Kyrie Irving Injury Update:
This is a HUGE blow for the Cavaliers team now...
I hate that happened to Kyrie Irving last night. We don't know if they might have pulled it out in overtime with him, but we know they didn't without him... and we also know he did a pretty good job defensively on Curry plus Kyrie scores in bunches sometimes too.
I'm rooting for Golden State, as opposed to rooting against Cleveland... but I always have the same mindset that Steve Kerr said after the game... I want the team I'm rooting for to win playing against the other team as healthy as they can be. Fouling out a player is part of the game, but being out due to injury sucks.
Can LeBron average 40-50 points for several games in a row? Sure. But last night's 44 was just good enough to get Cleveland into an overtime and they aren't going to have Kyrie. As good as LeBron can be, him doing it all by himself is what didn't work the last time around with Cleveland.
Golden State appeared to take the approach I would always take... don't double-team him... play him hard, make him work, and he will sometimes make tough shots and score a bunch... but don't let him beat a double-team and throw it to a wide-open player for easy shots. His team isn't scrubs... that gets overplayed sometimes in the press... but nobody else (with Kyrie and Kevin Love both out) can score at the levels LeBron can without a lot of help. So make it hard for LeBron, and he will have awesome numbers, but the rest of his team will find it hard to get into a rhythm.
I still see a possibility that pride and effort could win Cleveland a game or two... but I just can't see this series going any way besides to the Warriors.