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30 second skip deactivated for some commecials-again

Discussion in 'DIRECTV HD DVR/Receiver Discussion' started by bearcat250, Jun 11, 2012.

  1. Aug 21, 2012 #61 of 100
    TomCat

    TomCat Broadcast Engineer

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    Possibly. But my best guess would be that they just minimized the number of inserts they were doing after some backlash. And of course they probably have more real spots to insert now that are paid for, so they may have become a little bolder of late. If most of them are DTV promos, that indicates unsold spots that they still want to capitalize on by promoting their own stuff in those slots. At our expense, of course.

    I put these inserts into the same bag as the annoying banner ads in the program grid; both are attempts to squeeze the last nickel out of us until the buffalo farts, and both cause problems; the inserts prevent 30SKIP from working properly, and the banner ads seem to make the guide evermore sluggish, at least part of the time.

    I don't think it was ever really "fixed", because this is not something you can fix in the OS software without completely revisiting how 30SKIP works and making a wholesale change there. Honestly, I can't even imagine what an algorithm could even be that could accomplish that other than the one they are using, and that one is susceptible to the non-contiguous timecode of pre-recorded inserts.

    It is possible that they could add TC regenerators and insert the clips in during broadcast, but I think they want to insert them on site (inside your DVR) which means a TC regeneration won't work. If they only did inserts live at broadcast they could fix the problem, but that is more clumsy; doing it in your DVR means they can regionalize it and target their demos more surgically.

    For instance, if you live in a zipcode where there is an "In-Out Burger", they can target you for that, but if you live in an area where there is no "In-Out Burger" they can use the same slot to target you for something else (Chik-fil-et? Don't start!).
     
  2. Aug 22, 2012 #62 of 100
    Delroy E Walleye

    Delroy E Walleye AllStar

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    I guess the big question is then, why is the bug back again, for *any* of us??!! Whatever they did the first time to fix it FIXED it for EVERYONE. so why is it back at all, for anyone, whether just some of us or all?

    (Sorry if this has been clearly, completely and non-speculatively explained already and I'm just not "getting" it.)
     
  3. Aug 22, 2012 #63 of 100
    veryoldschool

    veryoldschool Lifetime Achiever Staff Member Super Moderator DBSTalk Club

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    "Some of us", may be running a newer version of software.
    If this is the case, then everyone will be getting it later.
     
  4. Aug 22, 2012 #64 of 100
    TomCat

    TomCat Broadcast Engineer

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    Del, I don't think it has been determined that it was ever "fixed" for anyone. All any of us really have is a perception of "now we see it, now we don't," and that may not coincide in any real way with the reality of how and when they are doing the inserts, regardless of how it may appear.

    I also am not that comfortable with referring to it as a "bug", as it does not fit the classic definition of a bug; it is more of a known limitation that, coincidentally, only affects an unauthorized feature. But folks can call it whatever they like, although that hinders any chance for clarity on the issue.

    Unless you are on the dev team that is working on it, no one really has any ability to do much more than speculate, and in my experience with that sort of thing even many of those folks are likely kept partially or completely in the dark as to what the goals or driving forces behind such an issue might be.

    95% of what is posted on this forum is speculation, and the other 5% is helpful ideas that have been proven to be effective in many if not most cases, so if you are looking for something to be "non-speculative" regarding the questions in this particular thread, you might find that you have come to the wrong place, especially when the question involves "why does this happen?". Sometimes there is a good answer, but when the answer lies under a veil of secrecy from DTV, there usually isn't. At that point, speculation is really all any of us have.

    This forum is what it is, but in most cases that is still a good thing, so while loaded with speculation, it is still probably the right place to go for these sorts of answers; the problem is that many questions just don't have definitive answers or at least those who have the answers may not always be available to post them here.

    The best thing NEXT to having actual inside info is having info from folks who work on similar systems for similar companies and can at least shed some light on how this PROBABLY works. Coincidentally, I actually have such credentials in this area so I can contribute something that can hopefully be meaningful in this case. You then get to weigh how credible that might be.

    Consider this situation: the professional mechanic who works on your car may be able to go on the record as much as he wants regarding heart valve replacement, simply based on his brother-in-law's experience as a heart valve recipient. He knows what he knows, and he knows just that much, and how much he goes on the record is up to him; he has little to lose by doing so.

    A cardiothoracic surrgeon, however, will not go on the record until he has run lots of tests and has hard evidence one way or the other. So ironically, the guy who knows very little is the one willing to share advice freely, and the expert who might have done hundreds of such procedures is the one who is not as willing to speculate.

    Do you want the advice that is voluminous and given freely or the advice that is based on acquired knowledge and empirical testing, which is not so voluminous and is very hard to get accurately simply by surfing the internet? I think I know how most people might answer that question.

    Bottom line, credibility matters, even when all we have is speculation. None of us can really say for sure what is under the hood here; even what I am saying has to be speculative, but it's still probably much closer to accurate than some of the freely-available wild-ass guessing we might see.

    But go ahead, its a free choice for anyone to make, as to what they might accept as their truth. it won't hurt my feelings at all if you'd rather believe something else. No evangelist reaches everybody. Bet the horses as you see them; just remember that racetracks can always still stay in business based on how those bets are placed.
     
  5. Aug 22, 2012 #65 of 100
    Laxguy

    Laxguy Honi Soit Qui Mal Y Pense.

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    Winters,...
    This reply reminds me that I asked you a question following a similar post of yours, wherein you debunked every proposed method of speeding up DVRs. I never saw a reply, and now I cannot recall the thread. Can you?
     
  6. Aug 22, 2012 #66 of 100
    Delroy E Walleye

    Delroy E Walleye AllStar

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    Ok. I'm cool with speculation.. Even done it (darkly, I might add) myself when these DVRs started acting nastily, blaming it on everything up to and including "corporate sabotage" which of course was taken the wrong way. The way I meant it was that perhaps some programmer or programmers were on the competitor's dole, not DTV itself.

    I guess what it comes down to is that some of us old fuddy duddies like to know why something doesn't doesn't work anymore that used to work perfectly, from specific features up to and including the entire operating interface. Naturally we turn to religious, if not scientific explainations for these things, as well as for our own existance. "DTV giveth, and then taketh away the better features."

    Since I'm relatively new to 30Skip, I'm not near as upset with its partial loss as I still am of losing all of the old yellow button features, going all the way back to "to do" list. About the time I'd finally adjusted, then away went (or got buried deep) all the other yellow button features, with some of them *never* coming back (remember being able to manage, move and delete bookmarks - they even had timestamps on them?)! Not to mention two-button CC and fav channels access...

    It could very well be that the removal of the 30skip fix was tied to the HDMI bug somehow, if only because that's about the time it disappeared and then re-surfaced, which if I recall was why many never received the fix. (I know, I know, I'm speculating, again, too).

    Anyway, like many of us, sometimes I just wish the thing would work like it's supposed to (or at least like it used to). We long for the "golden months" before drop-down banner, internet "garbage" and HDGUI problems and would gladly trade back for performance if we could.
     
  7. Aug 24, 2012 #67 of 100
    UhClem

    UhClem Cool Member

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    Bingo!

    I was poking around in the files (on an off-line HD-DVR drive) and found, among the program streams that I recorded, about 50-60 "suspicious" recordings. Three distinguishing characteristics: (1)their dir-names ended in "src2-ad.mpg" (vs "src2.mpg); (2) their sizes were all 20.3 MB (+- 200KB); (3) they were all "attributed" to channels in the range 8885-8889.
    (You will find these in ./viewer/segments/)

    Rather than debate whether this is a bug (or a feature?:)), I'd prefer to choose between unintended consequences and plausible deniability. Regardless, it really irks me!
     
  8. Aug 24, 2012 #68 of 100
    veryoldschool

    veryoldschool Lifetime Achiever Staff Member Super Moderator DBSTalk Club

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    Post #5 referred to these, with "local insert".
    This addition wasn't tested with 30skip, and only the supported 30slip.
    Newer versions of the firmware seems to have addresses it.
     
  9. Aug 24, 2012 #69 of 100
    UhClem

    UhClem Cool Member

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    Not really. #5's usage referred to a (broadcast) industry-standard term, pertaining to a local (geographical) market. I believe what we are experiencing here (and what is "confusing" the 30skip logic) is super-local (in your DVR). That is what my finding should differentiate. (TomCat will grok that.)
    No, it do not. (5D2 / 26Jun12 / hr23-700)
    [I hope English isn't your native language:)]
     
  10. Aug 24, 2012 #70 of 100
    veryoldschool

    veryoldschool Lifetime Achiever Staff Member Super Moderator DBSTalk Club

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    What the problem/source is.

    The only thing "local" in a national SAT feed, it the DVR.

    Think this may be self explanatory: 5D2 / 26Jun12, it's about 2 months old.
     
  11. Sep 1, 2012 #71 of 100
    nickff

    nickff Legend

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    I experience this annoying "event" all the time now. It started about 1 month ago. :(
     
  12. Sep 1, 2012 #72 of 100
    Pauley

    Pauley Mentor

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    If I have to see another DTV Cinema commercial for the f-ing Lorax without the ability to skip it I'm going to throw the unit through the wall! It has been happening about every second or third commercial break on ESPN today.

    1) Is it local to my unit? It is always the lorax for me
    2) Doesn't the insert have its own time code? If so, then skip30 should resync to that and then skip to the end of the commercial then resync to the 'real' time code.

    Pauley
     
  13. Sep 1, 2012 #73 of 100
    user3162

    user3162 New Member

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    Same here, and this is a deal breaker. I'm glad my contract is up.
     
  14. Sep 2, 2012 #74 of 100
    MIKE0616

    MIKE0616 Godfather

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    and it happens on every DTV ad that they have on now. Hopefully they will fix this soon as the football games are laced with DTV ads and each and every one of them screws with the 30skip. Neighbors who have DTV have noticed the same thing and not a one of them is happy with this feature.
     
  15. Sep 2, 2012 #75 of 100
    lparsons21

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    I assume that since no one is complaining about the 30slip, that it works just fine??

    And like others, the only time I'm seeing the 30skip bug is with DTV ads. Irritating, but certainly not a deal breaker to me.
     
  16. Sep 2, 2012 #76 of 100
    dpeters11

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    Right 30slip is fine. As Stuart said, the skip has improved, but we're talking about a feature that is undocumented and unsupported.
     
  17. Sep 2, 2012 #77 of 100
    fornold

    fornold Legend

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    I agree it is not a deal breaker, but an annoyance. I have been seeing this not only on some DirecTV ads, but also on several ads for GM recently on shows from Food Network and SciFi.
     
  18. Sep 2, 2012 #78 of 100
    jdspencer

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    I doubt that the 30s skip "problem" is a bug. DirecTV is disabling it on purpose, in order to get you to view it.
     
  19. Sep 2, 2012 #79 of 100
    veryoldschool

    veryoldschool Lifetime Achiever Staff Member Super Moderator DBSTalk Club

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    Why then with a newer version of software, I haven't had it in weeks? :confused:
     
  20. Sep 2, 2012 #80 of 100
    jdspencer

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    Just lucky that you haven't run into DirecTV ads I guess.

    I wasn't aware of the problem until recently with DirecTV ads.
     

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