4 or More Hoppers on a Single Account?

Discussion in 'Hopper System Support Forum' started by Zulu, May 6, 2015.

  1. Stewart Vernon

    Stewart Vernon Roving Reporter Staff Member Super Moderator DBSTalk Club

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    Because Dish has said it. All the documentation that Dish provides does not show how to connect these other configurations. Anyone you talk to at Dish will tell you that it is not supported if you happen to figure out how to do it yourself.

    Like I said, you can certainly do it if you want... others have been doing it... but you need to keep in mind going into it that Dish isn't going to support any problems that arise from an unsupported configuration. I'm not making it up. Call Dish, escalate up to their highest support and see. There are surely reasons why it is not supported. We don't know what they have tested internally, what problems they might have found and decided it wasn't worth the headache of supporting for customer configurations.

    It isn't the first or last limit on supported configurations of Dish equipment, or any company with any equipment for that matter.

    Bottom line... Dish will activate the 8 receivers you are talking about... and Dish will even install them, in a non-interconnected supported way... and you can go behind them and re-connect to let everything see everything else apparently... but if you do have any problems that arise from that configuration, Dish is going to tell you "that's not supported" and you're on your own to figure out what's wrong OR you'll have to reconfigure to a supported installation to see if the problem persists yourself.
     
  2. James Long

    James Long Ready for Uplink! Staff Member Super Moderator DBSTalk Club

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    One caveat: If one is dealing with a local installer who sells DISH but is not a contractor sent by DISH one might be able to get a "non-standard" installation that is supported by that local installer (not DISH corporate). If you had any problems that could be blamed on "more than two Hoppers" one would need to seek local support. Local support would not help if one hit a software limit on the number of Hoppers that would play nice together.

    As far as the argument that "DISH activated it, DISH should support it" the easy answer for DISH would be to apologize for activating the additional receivers and deactivate down to the supported level. :)
     
  3. Zulu

    Zulu New Member

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    Sounds like you're quoting the IT mantra: That which is not expressly permitted is forbidden.
     
  4. James Long

    James Long Ready for Uplink! Staff Member Super Moderator DBSTalk Club

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    Which is better than the NASCAR mantra: "That which is not expressly forbidden is permitted."

    The reality of what Stewart and I are saying is: "That which is not expressly permitted is not supported."
     
  5. Zulu

    Zulu New Member

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    I'm with NASCAR, but . . .

    Would this be a supported configuration? 8 Hoppers - 4 Networks
     
  6. n0qcu

    n0qcu Legend/Supporter DBSTalk Gold Club

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    NO, you cannot hook up the node to the power inserter.
     
  7. P Smith

    P Smith Mr. FixAnything

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    tell us how exactly it will not work? PI doesn't affect DiSEqC and rated up to 3 GHz!
     
  8. n0qcu

    n0qcu Legend/Supporter DBSTalk Gold Club

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    It probably would work fine but dish policy doesn't allow it.
     
  9. damondlt

    damondlt New Member

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    While this seems very neatly organized.
    It's seems like a big mess expensive, and no way would I ever want to begin to troubleshoot it.

    There has to be a better way to hook up 3 or 4 hoppers. Your talking 9 or 12 tuners.
    I've seen 28 tuner directv with half the equipment pictured on this 4 hopper system.

    So why is all of this needed?
    Why isn't there a System like Directv swm16?
     
  10. damondlt

    damondlt New Member

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    This is crazy.
    I would imagine this is not often practiced!
    And no Dish Tech is ever going to do this, certainly not for free.

    I will admit the picture is well organized, but with that mess you would have no choice but to be that organized.
    Way too many points of failure, way to many.
    I see over 75 possible points of potential failure from connections to switches, cables , multi switches,splitters, Power Inserters
    Image seeing this on the side of your house.
     
  11. Zulu

    Zulu New Member

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    What DISH policy?
     
  12. James Long

    James Long Ready for Uplink! Staff Member Super Moderator DBSTalk Club

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    DISH does not have SWiM. Each receiver with a satellite tuner needs a direct feed from a switch or node (depending on the type of receiver). Nodes need two or three direct feeds from a switch (usually a switch built in to the LNB). Only Joeys (not Super Joeys) can use a split feed - although a Joey and a Hopper/Hopper w/Sling/Super Joey can share the same feed from the node.

    It is the curse of the home run cable ... fortunately for people with normal installs it doesn't get as complicated as shown.


    It isn't on the side of the house ... it is in a basement or utility room. The switches and nodes could be placed outside but the power inserters need to be indoors. For a large installation, an indoor wiring panel is a good idea.

    Hopefully you have noticed that half of that board has nothing to do with the satellite signal distribution (see attached for a trimmed version of the picture showing just the satellite switches).
     

    Attached Files:

  13. damondlt

    damondlt New Member

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    Hey have at it.
    It's excessive to say the least.
    There has to be a better way then all that.
    And I know the picture is in a basement.
    But most installers are not faced with properly place sheats of plywood in a nice dry basement.
    And you still need some type of networking, which you left out of your 2nd edited picture.
    And what about the Joeys?
     
  14. damondlt

    damondlt New Member

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    Newfoundland...
    Guess I'm used to this,
    uploadfromtaptalk1431284327855.png
     
  15. Stewart Vernon

    Stewart Vernon Roving Reporter Staff Member Super Moderator DBSTalk Club

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    It's hard to tell if you are just arguing for arguing sake or if you really don't understand what we have been talking about.

    There are lots of things that technically might work BUT are unsupported by Dish. This is true of lots of products made by lots of companies.

    You have essentially two questions, both of which have been answered:

    1. Does this interconnect work, technically? Yes, it does, apparently as some have tried it out.
    2. Will Dish support it? No, Dish will not support it.

    So, you can do these things... but you can't expect Dish to support problems that might arise from doing so. It's really that simple. We don't know exactly why Dish does not support these configurations... maybe it's about money, or maybe they encountered problems in testing that were only mitigated by limiting the interconnects... who knows? But Dish will not support these configurations whether they seem to work or not and no matter what diagram you find that says "it can be done."
     
  16. Zulu

    Zulu New Member

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    The drawing I linked to in post #25 was not the same as my previous one (8 Hoppers with interlinked Duo Nodes).

    The post #25 drawing shows 8 Hoppers connected in 4 different networks, not one big one. The Duo Nodes are not linked together.

    The post #25 drawing seems to be supported by DISH in these references:
    So I think there's enough DISH documentation to support an 8-Hopper network.

    The other issue is if DISH allow anyone to have 8 Hoppers? They told me I could have at least 7.

    So what don't I understand?
     
  17. James Long

    James Long Ready for Uplink! Staff Member Super Moderator DBSTalk Club

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    Most installers will not touch a system with more than two Hoppers ... this thread is about special installations.


    Minimum networking is connecting a single Ethernet cable to the back of any Hopper. The system uses MoCA to talk between the Hoppers and Joeys ... over the cabling shown. From the node one cable is run to each Hopper. Each Duo node can support two Hoppers.

    Joeys (if present) can be split off of the feed to a Hopper (one joey per Hopper feed, per the standard), or connected to a client port on the Node (up to two Joeys per client port, per the standard). The photograph shows a cable connecting two client ports on different nodes, which is one way of bridging MoCA between two nodes (and creating a larger system).

    Joeys can also be connected directly to Ethernet without any coax connection. One can also buy wireless Joeys or (unsupported) connect regular Joeys wirelesely.
     
  18. James Long

    James Long Ready for Uplink! Staff Member Super Moderator DBSTalk Club

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    Optimistically it could work ... but you are taking supported installations, adding something else and still calling them supported. You might as well be connecting an OTA antenna to the node or a DirecTV receiver. Once you leave the supported documentation you are on your own.


    Did you start this thread just for the sake of argument or are you planning an eight Hopper system? If you just want to argue the thread is pointless ... if you really want an eight Hopper system build it and then post proof that it worked. But do not be surprised if there is some limitation people have not discovered in their "home brew" testing and do not be surprised if DISH refuses to make it work.
     
  19. damondlt

    damondlt New Member

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    I would bet it's just to argue, because I would never see anything practical about 4 hopper system let alone an 8 hopper system.

    I always liked a fairly large system , but I learned fast all that extra receiver fees, and addtional troubleshooting is not worth the ability to record that much content.
    I'm not sure how anyone can find time to record that much stuff let alone watch it there is only 24 hours in a day.
    I know I'm gone 11-14 hours a day ,so between household chores and sleep, Maybe I get an hour or 2 tops.
    6 tuners in our family of 4 works just fine.
    We could even manage 5 if we had too.

    After all its just tv!
     
  20. Zulu

    Zulu New Member

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    Nope. I was (and still am) looking for examples of multi-Hopper installs.

    I kept pressing to see where you got your information on supported Hopper systems.

    At the end of the day, it sounds like you're saying if it isn't explicitly in Dish's Install Manual, then it wouldn't be supported. For example, since only 2-Hopper systems are shown, that's the max DISH will support, right?
     

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