1. May 2, 2021 #1 of 31
    William L Whittenberger

    William L Whittenberger New Member

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    I have seen this done but I don't have all the details.
    Sports Bar with 8 H25 Receivers
    Also need to integrate 2 receivers for 4k. I was told I need a genie and a C61 client for each so 2 of each. I was told for stability I need to connect each set to its own swm30 and another swm30 for the 8 H25 receivers. I also need IP control via deca. So basically 10 sources from DTV.

    Can someone explain the wiring or have a diagram for how this is all set up?
    I know this is not common for business use and I am dealing with that, so please don't say DTV wont allow it, that's another conversation.
    The dealer this facility has to use does not seem to have much knowledge in this but will provide whatever I ask. This place has 97 TVs using an AV over IP solution with an iPad app to control the DTV receivers over IP.
     
  2. May 2, 2021 #2 of 31
    inkahauts

    inkahauts Well-Known Member

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    Ok so to clarify before giving any answer…

    You current have 8 hd25 receivers driving a system that drives a lot of TVs. That means you current have 8 sources.

    You want to add two 4K receivers total so you’d end up with 10 sources instead of the current 8?

    Or do you mean you want to replace 2 hd25 with 4K ones and keep the total sources at 8?
     
  3. May 2, 2021 #3 of 31
    WestDC

    WestDC Well-Known Member DBSTalk Club

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    Why Not just install another DISH just for 4K Service install a HS17- and feed the 2 4k tv's only --just a thought.

    a Hr54 will only feed ONE 4k TV at a time
     
  4. May 2, 2021 #4 of 31
    codespy

    codespy Go Pack Go!!!! DBSTalk Club

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    He’s going from 8 to 10 to utilize two clients.

    I’m sure Slice can provide a good plan with his experience.
     
  5. May 2, 2021 #5 of 31
    inkahauts

    inkahauts Well-Known Member

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    That is what it seems like but since he said his system runs through an ip system driving 90 some TVs wanted to be sure. Maybe he’s going to run second lines to just the two 4K TVs? Otherwise my next question would be if the distribution system designed to handle 4K?
     
  6. May 2, 2021 #6 of 31
    inkahauts

    inkahauts Well-Known Member

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    Why eve go that far? Seems like one rblnb would drive the entire system as long as they allow an hs17 to drive two 4K clients in a commercial setup with those other receivers. They may not though…
     
  7. May 3, 2021 #7 of 31
    codespy

    codespy Go Pack Go!!!! DBSTalk Club

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    I agree, but that’s the ‘big elephant in the room’ with the 4K setup- allowing a HS17 DVR for a sports bar. I don’t have a sports bar, so that’s where other pros here can chime in.
     
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  8. May 3, 2021 #8 of 31
    William L Whittenberger

    William L Whittenberger New Member

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    Thanks for the input. I am clueless with DTV. Normally it's easy with the 8 receivers.
    Forget the amount of TVs for now. That is handled through the AV over IP side. I use JustAddPower encoders and decoders. Each DTV receiver is connected to an encoder and gets distributed through Cisco SG550X switches. So think of it more like 1 TV per receiver.
    One dealer that works with the J+P equipment told be that each 4k set uses 13 channels so I need a dedicated SWM30 for each and another SWM30 for the remaining 8 receivers.

    Blank diagram: Lucidchart

    This is a diagram I started but not sure if it's correct. The bottom set with the 8 receivers is normally how our system looks.
     
  9. May 3, 2021 #9 of 31
    HoTat2

    HoTat2 Hall Of Fame

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    No, you don't need another DSWM-30 ...

    As the receiving equipment providing 4K programming may be connected to the other side of the current DSWM-30 switch.

    But as was mentioned by others here, what you do need for the 4K sources is a DIRECTV HS-17 (aka "Genie 2") to provide two simultaneous 4K streams to two C61K mini clients.

    Though have you ascertained that an HS-17 is even available for commercial installations?

    That is, I assume its DVR recording functionality is disabled. ....

    Sent from my LM-V600 using Tapatalk
     
  10. HoTat2

    HoTat2 Hall Of Fame

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    I'd also recommend installing a Slimline Reverse Band capable LNB (SL5KRB) such as illustrated here for instance ...

    DIRECTV Reverse Band 5 Satellite UltraHD 4K LNB for SWM-30 (SL5KRB)

    For possible future-proofing in case DIRECTV ever does finally move their 4K channels to the RB as they originally intended years ago. ...

    Sent from my LG-H932 using Tapatalk
     
  11. slice1900

    slice1900 Well-Known Member

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    An HR54 will claim 7 tuners, so a single DSWM30 will work fine with the H25s split half and half between the two outputs along with the HR54+C61K (make sure you get a C61K, NOT a C61!) which would be 11 tuners on each output of a DSWM30.

    You also need to look into that "AV over IP solution" to make sure it is capable of handling 4K. If it can't, all this effort will be for nothing.

    Hopefully the owner is aware that the 4K channels and the HD channels aren't synchronized, so if they have a TV displaying a 4K game near a TV displaying the same game from an HD channel, the pictures won't be synchronized (nor will the sound if the sound from one of those is playing on the bar's speakers) This is the same problem Directv had (well still has) with HD & SD channels, if you had a mix of HD and SD receivers in a bar the pictures/sound were out of sync, the only solution was to go to HD receivers everywhere even on SD TVs.

    I agree with the above that you need to upgrade the LNB to an SL5KRB, and run two additional coaxes if there are only four currently. Directv isn't using reverse band for 4K today, but they have been clear for years that's their plan.
     
  12. slice1900

    slice1900 Well-Known Member

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    It is not. The only solution for 4K in sports bars approved by Directv is an HR54+C61K to serve one TV. They won't activate an HS17 on a commercial account. And since that only serves two 4K clients it currently wouldn't be all that much better than the HR54 anyway.

    Maybe the COM360 thing can do 4K as well, I'm not sure.
     
  13. P Smith

    P Smith Mr. FixAnything

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    according the slides it does not
     

    Attached Files:

  14. harsh

    harsh Beware the Attack Basset

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    While the Comm2000 did not support 4K, the Comm3000 is claimed to.

    [​IMG]
     
  15. slice1900

    slice1900 Well-Known Member

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    I've seen them mention 4K support for the COM3000 but it isn't clear from the documentation how it really works - i.e. can you encapsulate 4K in a QAM channel or do you need an IP only install and so forth. Even if you can do 4K in a QAM channel 4K TVs may not be able to receive it that way so you'd need the set top box.

    Supposedly sports bars can get a waiver on the pro:idiom encryption and run in clear QAM which would save a lot of money on not needing $100 set tops on every TV. But if 4K TVs can't handle 4K encapsulated in a QAM carrier (and I've never heard anything to indicate any TVs can) that advantage is lost as you'd need a set top at each TV - though I guess if you went all IP you could potentially save by not needing the QAM card?
     
  16. harsh

    harsh Beware the Attack Basset

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    They could use streaming like most of the cablecos that offer 4K content. Whether they set the Com3000 up as a streaming server or use an app on the TV or a connected device, there are probably many options.

    I know QAM can do wonderful things but I agree that consumer QAM TV tuners probably aren't up to the task of 4k.
     
  17. William L Whittenberger

    William L Whittenberger New Member

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    Thanks. Yes, the solution does support true 4k. I am aware of the sync too. If there is a game playing in 4k they would not have that on a non 4k receiver at the same time.
    I am trying to get in touch with that integrator about more details on why they said each 4k setup(hr54+c61k) needs to be on it's own swm30. If I heard him correctly he said each takes 13 channels.
    I just want this setup to be stable. Getting the 4k to work in the place is a big deal to getting more locations. The competition is stuck at 720P because their decoders cant handle interlace so they have to back their dtv receivers to 720p.
     
  18. inkahauts

    inkahauts Well-Known Member

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    The way i see it one dswim30 will do the entire setup and can be configured a coupe different ways.. you just shouldn’t go over 13 tubers in either swim output if it has any h25s on it.

    Option one:

    Swim1 output > 8 way splitter > one hr54, one c61k and four h25. (Total 11 tuners)

    Swim2 output > 8 way splitter > one hr54, one c61k and four h25 (Total 11 tuners)

    Option 2:

    Swim1 output > 8 way splitter > eight h25. (Total 8 tuners)

    Swim2 output > 4 way splitter > two hr54, two c61k.

    (Total 14 tuners)

    Installers choice really.
     
  19. HoTat2

    HoTat2 Hall Of Fame

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    Are commercial installs allowed two HR54s though?

    Sent from my LM-V600 using Tapatalk
     
  20. slice1900

    slice1900 Well-Known Member

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    Yes, they're allowed an unlimited number of HR54/C61K pairs.
     
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