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5th grader suspended at nature camp for Swiss Army knife

Discussion in 'The OT' started by phrelin, Apr 27, 2013.

  1. Apr 27, 2013 #1 of 110
    phrelin

    phrelin Hall Of Fame DBSTalk Club

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    Sometimes I feel like the world is filled with crazy people in authority. From Fifth-grader suspended at overnight nature camp for bringing Swiss Army knife

    From my point of view it's a bit of a weird story. :nono2:

    I knew we were headed for a world where good judgement and common sense was to be replaced with inflexibility and rigid rules. I just didn't die soon enough to avoid seeing it running rampant.

    Given that we're talking about Silicon Valley and Marin, he should have been suspended for not having a Swiss Army Knife with a corkscrew - how's he going to open his bottle of cabernet? :sure:
     
  2. Apr 27, 2013 #2 of 110
    Stewart Vernon

    Stewart Vernon Roving Reporter Staff Member Super Moderator DBSTalk Club

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    As long as the kid can use the knife properly and doesn't give it to anyone else, then it could be fine... but then, if anyone gets hurt you can be guaranteed the outcry would be "how could they allow a kid to have a knife" thus the restrictive rules come into being.
     
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  3. Apr 27, 2013 #3 of 110
    damondlt

    damondlt New Member

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    I think 10 year olds this day and age are too dumb to handle a knife reguardless of the type.

    School acted as they should and there is no reason a 10 year old needs a Swiss army knife period.
     
  4. Apr 27, 2013 #4 of 110
    AntAltMike

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    In today's world, a pocket knife is a concealed weapon. I carried a Boy Scout knife to high school in the 1960s, as did at least dozens of others. We had fights in school. We used to "settle" things that way. But no one ever used a weapon in any fight. In fact, if two guys were fighting and one pulled out a knife, everyone would have laughed at him.

    It is a different world today. The problem with using "good judgement and common sense" to justify making an exception in this situation is that it undermines the rule and makes future administration of it impossible.
     
  5. Apr 27, 2013 #5 of 110
    MysteryMan

    MysteryMan Well-Known Member DBSTalk Club

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    What happened with Braden Bandermann is Bullsh*t. Rules, regulations, and laws should not be rigid or fixed. They should be flexible enough to take account of various circumstances, times, and places.
     
  6. Apr 27, 2013 #6 of 110
    sigma1914

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    Weapons in school isn't allowed for many reasons, with liability being the biggest reason. It's a school function and the rules don't change. If it's a Boy Scout trip, trip with family or friends, then it's fine.
     
  7. Apr 27, 2013 #7 of 110
    MysteryMan

    MysteryMan Well-Known Member DBSTalk Club

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    A Swiss Army Knife is a "combination tool". A weapon is "any" device used in order to inflict damage or harm to living beings, structures, or systems. Ever been inside a school lately? They're loaded with devices (tools, chemicals, kitchen utensils) that could be used as a weapon. Maybe they should be banned from school property as well. :sure: The incident with Braden Bandermann was overblown and should have been addressed differently.
     
  8. Apr 27, 2013 #8 of 110
    sigma1914

    sigma1914 Well-Known Member DBSTalk Club

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    A knife is a weapon. It's a Swiss Army KNIFE. There's no reason an 10/11 year old 5th grader needs a knife on a school nature camp trip. Braden may be a very responsible kid with all good intentions, but a classmate could easily get the knife and start stabbing kids.

    Yes, there's a lot of potential weapons around schools. We're talking 5th graders here, not high school chemistry classes with dangerous chemicals. Around here, schools use plastic utensils & styrofoam trays. Unless the kids have prison skills to turn plastic utensils into shanks like prisoners do, a 5th grader isn't shanking anyone. You can't cut jello with a plastic utensil, much less a person. :grin:

    The school definitely overreacted when they wanted a parent come get him for 1 day. The article clearly says there's a “zero-tolerance” policy for “violence, weapons, and drugs on school campuses or at school activities off campus.” Also it sates, “State Law, district policy, and regulations of [sic] California Education Code support Zero Tolerance by requiring the immediate suspension and recommendation for expulsion of any student who possesses or furnishes a firearm, knife, explosive, or similarly dangerous object on school grounds or at a school event off school grounds.”

    Rules are rules.
     
  9. Apr 27, 2013 #9 of 110
    James Long

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    Wow ... the kid should get the death penalty. After all, rules are rules. Violating such a simple rule now just shows that he won't be able to follow the more complex rules that he will face later in life. Why let him stay around and be a burden to society?


    I've never completely agreed with "zero tolerance" punishments for juveniles - especially for those who have committed no crime. Those that disagree with me will work (or have worked) to make juvenile errors crimes beyond school rules. A kid giving his friend an aspirin at a school event is a drug dealer ... immediate expulsion is demanded! Hell, the kid having an aspirin on school property in the first place is possession of drugs. Kick him out for the rest of the year ... or permanently.

    I suppose coming from a generation who would likely carry a small knife I don't look at them as weapons. They are tools.

    With an explicit rule that does not allow that tool to be brought on a school trip I can see the knife being taken away. But it should have been a teachable moment ... not something with a harsh penalty.
     
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  10. Apr 27, 2013 #10 of 110
    sigma1914

    sigma1914 Well-Known Member DBSTalk Club

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    A 1 day suspension is a harsh penalty?
     
  11. Apr 27, 2013 #11 of 110
    James Long

    James Long Ready for Uplink! Staff Member Super Moderator DBSTalk Club

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    Yes. I would liken it to being placed on the no-fly list for having nail clippers with a small "blade" at an airport.

    The penalty is to have the banned object taken away. Why should a 5th grader at a nature camp be punished more harshly?
     
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  12. Apr 27, 2013 #12 of 110
    Drucifer

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    I had flatware when I went to school. Have all the utensils become wasteful plastic?
     
  13. Apr 27, 2013 #13 of 110
    MysteryMan

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    Did you read the article in it's entirety? Here are some of the better reports: West Virginia: 8th grader suspended and "arrested" for refusing to remove a T-shirt with the National Rifle Association logo. Michigan: 3rd grader's home made birthday cakes impounded because they were adorned with plastic W.W.II toy soldiers. Illinois: 8th grader threatened with suspension if he didn't remove a T-shirt with the Marine Corps logo. Last time I looked that kind of stuff happened in places like Nazi Germany and Communist Russia. Perhaps we should replace the stars on Old Glory with Swastikas and Hammers and Sickles.
     
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  14. Apr 27, 2013 #14 of 110
    scooper

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    It's certainly WAY out of the bounds of reason. Have the the supoervisors of the trip hold it for the day, explain why, and that he shouldn't bring it back to school, and send a note to the parent . 2nd offense - ok maybe stay after school.
     
  15. Apr 27, 2013 #15 of 110
    sigma1914

    sigma1914 Well-Known Member DBSTalk Club

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    All those examples, which were pretty stupid, have nothing to do with this incident. It's ridiculous to compare those with Nazis & Communism. It's nothing but FUD. This incident clearly violated a rule; a rule we might not agree with, but still a rule.
     
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  16. Apr 27, 2013 #16 of 110
    sigma1914

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    What if he brought a gun with him? I know that when camping or into nature, that it's a good idea to take a gun for protection from wild animals. A gun is a tool to thwart off animals.
     
  17. Apr 27, 2013 #17 of 110
    scooper

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    Now you're taking it to the extreme...
     
  18. Apr 27, 2013 #18 of 110
    MysteryMan

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    You're mixing apples with oranges. Per Webster...... Gun: A "weapon" consisting of a metal tube from which a projectile is fired at high velocity......Tool: A "device" used to perform or facilitate manual or mechanical work.
     
  19. Apr 27, 2013 #19 of 110
    sigma1914

    sigma1914 Well-Known Member DBSTalk Club

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    A knife isn't just a tool. A gun isn't just a weapon.

    A machete is often used and designed as a tool to clear vegetation...perfect tool for camping. Should the kid allowed to take it to the nature camp? What about a hacksaw or axe? They're tools to cut wood...again, perfect for camping.
     
  20. Apr 27, 2013 #20 of 110
    James Long

    James Long Ready for Uplink! Staff Member Super Moderator DBSTalk Club

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    He didn't bring a gun with him. Or to say it another way:
    I believe the punishment is too harsh. You disagree. That is what makes America great.
    If you're really that in to punishments for every rule broken never break a rule. :)

    Never drive 56 in a 55 -- or 26 in a 25. The next time you break a rule turn yourself in immediately for punishment. :D
     

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