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721 Linux drive

Discussion in 'Standard Definition Receiver Support Forum' started by kyoo, Aug 4, 2002.

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  1. Guest

    Guest Guest

    Here we go again :-(
    Can you tell me exactly what crime you are committing (i.e. what law violating) if your modification does not allow you to steal any intellectual property but only, for example, allows you to use a larger harddrive? DMCA is not applicable for reasons I've already outlineda bove.

    I don't know much about the Tivo and ReplayTV hacks. What exactly have they done?
     
  2. bfennema

    bfennema AllStar

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    Jul 21, 2002
    Never attribute to security what can be explained by programmer lazyness =)
     
  3. James_F

    James_F Damn you woman! DBSTalk Gold Club

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    I never said you couldn't add a larger hard drive. I know I have with my Tivo. We were talking about modifying the software to allow access to digital files.
     
  4. MarkA

    MarkA God Bless America! DBSTalk Gold Club

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    "Who cares what they say? If Ford says that it is illegal for you to look under the hood of the car that you BOUGHT, does that mean anything in the court of law? Absolutely nothing. If you are not stealing TV programming or pirating their PVR software (not sure why or how you'd want to do that), they can scare you all they want but they don't have a legal leg to stand on."

    In the free world, yes. But in America we have the DMCA which denies us our God-given right to look "under the hood" of our software as has been mentioned. It's sad really. And unconstitional.
     
  5. James_F

    James_F Damn you woman! DBSTalk Gold Club

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    Right, but until someone challenges it, you have to abide by it. Why put this forum in jepardy?
     
  6. Guest

    Guest Guest

    Well, it's sure as hell wasn't what I was talking about. Because what you are talking about is clearly illegal. But in the case of the Dishplayer and PVR501, that's not even necessary because the files are not protected in any form and thus no modification to the software is necessary. You simply figure out what the format of the files is (which is what people have done) and read them off.
     
  7. bfennema

    bfennema AllStar

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    Jul 21, 2002
    My question is, why would echostar care what you do to your box as long as your not stealing programming (which is where they make their money, correct?)
     
  8. MarkA

    MarkA God Bless America! DBSTalk Gold Club

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    Because they are run by corporate America. If you add a drive - it means they can't sell you a replacement with a larger drive (that's just one example of course)
     
  9. MarkA

    MarkA God Bless America! DBSTalk Gold Club

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    Plus, it should also be noted at another reason is that if you figure out the code just to add a drive for example, it means the hackers who want to steal programming have less work to do...
     
  10. James_F

    James_F Damn you woman! DBSTalk Gold Club

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    Because they have invested time any money into adding new features. Why would anyone upgrade to the new receivers if they could download updates from the internet? Let say Ecostar came out with a 730 which had broadband access. All the 721 owners would be angry, but they would have to upgrade to get the new featues. Put if someone hacked the software to allow you to use the internet with the 721, then why would you upgrade? I assume they will add internet free of charge, but you never know of other upgrades... If you let someone modify the software, then you open yourself up to DMCA violations.
     
  11. DmitriA

    DmitriA Legend

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    Aug 5, 2002
    Well, it depends on the hack. If they hack is figuring out the format of the ifles on the HD and reading them off (no mods to software currently needed for that), they MIGHT care about it (haven't yet) because they don't want the programmers to be upset about their digital content winding up on Napster-like systems.
    If it's a hack to have a larger HD, they DO care about it and have tried to technologically prevent it in the 501 because they probably want to sell more of their own PVRs that have larger HDs and also they don't want to waste support resources when HD hacks go wrong and people mess up their units (that's the official reason that they are giving, anyway)
    If it's a hack to steal programming, well, it's obvious why they would be mad as hell to see you doing that...
     
  12. DmitriA

    DmitriA Legend

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    Um, no sorry. one thing has nothing to do with the other. it is very easy to have a larger HD on the Dishplayer and to my limited knowledge it doesn't contribute one bit to hacking the smart cards on the DP
     
  13. James_F

    James_F Damn you woman! DBSTalk Gold Club

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    That is the big reason why Dish/Tivo/Microsoft don't want you messing with the software.
     
  14. James_F

    James_F Damn you woman! DBSTalk Gold Club

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    No, the frown on it. Look at the 721. It has a void warranty sticker on the drive. If you show people how to modify the software to add a drive, you are asking for trouble. Will the media companies sue the end user? No, they'll come after Dish.
     
  15. MarkA

    MarkA God Bless America! DBSTalk Gold Club

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    "Um, no sorry. one thing has nothing to do with the other. it is very easy to have a larger HD on the Dishplayer and to my limited knowledge it doesn't contribute one bit to hacking the smart cards on the DP"

    Exactly BECAUSE it is so easy to add a hard drive. You don't NEED to figure out the software to do so. You just pop in a new drive - it automagically formats, downloads the software, and sets it up! Not so with the others which require you to learn more about the system
     
  16. bfennema

    bfennema AllStar

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    Jul 21, 2002
    The convergence of consumer electronics with personal computers makes this a nice gray area.

    Upgrading things like processors, memory, and hard discs is considered perfectly normal for a PC.

    721 - USB, x86, hard drive, video out.. Looks like a PC to me =)
    It's certainly a whole lot more powerful than my first PC was.
     
  17. DmitriA

    DmitriA Legend

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    Um. I still don't see what the issue of upgrading HDs has to do with piracy.... But if you use your logic, Dish should make it as easy as possible for you to upgrade your harddrives, since that would eliminate piracy :D
     
  18. MarkA

    MarkA God Bless America! DBSTalk Gold Club

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    Yes, it would certainly reduce the potential for piracy. But not eliminate it. However, it would mean more support calls for upgrading hard drives and less people buying units with larger hard drives (look how many people kept DPs a long time after they would have replaced them if they couldn't upgrade the drive...)
     
  19. James_F

    James_F Damn you woman! DBSTalk Gold Club

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    Look, if Dish looks the other way, they are opening themselves up to litigation from media companies. A far more frightening prospect than John Smith who is bent because he can't modify the software.
     
  20. MarkA

    MarkA God Bless America! DBSTalk Gold Club

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    Of course, while touching the PVR software is a no-no, DISH is ALSO breaking the law by not releasing their modifications to the Linux kernel...
     
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