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A second Genie?

Discussion in 'DIRECTV General Discussion' started by TDK1044, Sep 4, 2013.

  1. Laxguy

    Laxguy Honi Soit Qui Mal Y Pense.

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    Winters,...
    I don't think that's limited to your kid, nor kids in general, nor the whole of the DVR nation!
     
  2. JosephB

    JosephB Icon

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    There's several issues brought up here that aren't so easy to fix.

    1. Someone mentioned putting 8 tuners in the HR44. Not so simple. It's not just necessarily having a faster CPU to handle 8 tuners, but the bandwidth to the hard drive becomes an issue. DVRs have regular hard drives, not SSDs (due to the nature of SSDs this will not change anytime soon). You'd need two different hard drives. Then, the software needed to juggle jobs between the two would get complicated. Just not as simple as plugging in 8 tuners and a faster CPU.

    2. I'd imagine the 3 client per Genie limit is due to bandwidth on the MoCA more than anything else. Also, hard drive bandwidth comes into play again here as well. Reading is faster that writing, but you still have to save enough room for the four tuners to write to the hard drive at the same time.

    3. It would be very easy to allow 2 Genies per account, but it would come with a few caveats. The customer would have to fully understand that each Genie would be wholly independent of the other, both in terms of clients connecting to a given server and in terms of not having MRV capability between the two "systems". The fact that they don't support two Genies on a SWM-16 while bridging the MoCA side leads me to believe MoCA bandwidth is indeed a problem.

    Since the number of people trying to do that in the first place would be extremely small, and the support nightmare it would be, it makes sense that they just outright don't allow it.
     
  3. Riverpilot

    Riverpilot AllStar

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    I believe those who do have 2 genies can see each other. Whether or not those persons will want to chime in or not.. I doubt it. :rotfl:

    I personally think more people would use 2 genies than you might assume. :shrug: Just like I know people who have 2 of those hopper things. If I ever left directv, which might happen at the end of the year if I can't get another genie, then I'll be one of those having 2 hoppers.

    :shrug: When you live in a house full of people, who all want to record different things all at the same time.. 5 tuners is gone quickly. Having a HR24 for each TV would help a bit, but even that wouldn't solve the full problem. :shrug:

    First world problems and all! :rotfl:
     
  4. JosephB

    JosephB Icon

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    I'm sure if you have two genies on one system they can "see" each other, but it's very likely that if you maxed out the system (like, say, record five things on each genie while simultaneously on each client trying to watch a show recorded on the "other" Genie.) I'm pretty sure you'd run out of bandwidth, and for DirecTV to support two Genies on the same SWM/DECA network, it would have to support that.
     
  5. The Merg

    The Merg 1*

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    Ummm... I don't think so. There are people here that have had 10-12 tuners recording at once and watching recorded content without issue.

    - Merg
     
  6. JosephB

    JosephB Icon

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    Doubtful that everything everyone was watching was on a remote Genie.

    This is the scenario:

    Genie A and Genie B. Each have 3 clients (Client A1, A2, A3, B1, B2, and B3)

    Both Genies are recording 5 programs in HD.

    All three clients on both sides on and watching an HD stream.

    Also, a portion of each side is watching something from the other. So, for example Client A1 is watching an MRV recording from Genie B. Likewise Client B1 is watching an MRV recording from Genie A.

    My original scenario assumed Genies supported more than one MRV stream off the box at a time, but I'm not sure if that's the case. Probably not, but still there is a very distinct possibility that you would max out the DECA network's bandwidth with such a scenario.
     
  7. The Merg

    The Merg 1*

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    If you are looking at straight bandwidth, it wouldn't matter where the tuners are in that you could have a Genie and 4 HR2x's. That would be 13 tuners. We know that even with a setup like that there is no issue with recording and watching shows remotely from the other DVRs. The DECA cloud can handle it.

    - Merg
     
  8. JosephB

    JosephB Icon

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    The number of tuners are irrelevant--SWIM and DECA are not related.. Is there a confirmed example of 10-12 MRV streams on a single DECA network? That would be astonishing if true.
     
  9. say-what

    say-what Active Member

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    A Genie can serve 3 streams in any combination of MRV or RVU-client (Genie-mini or RVU-TV)

    There are known people on this site with enough HR2x's in use who regularly exceed 3 or 6 MRV streams in use at anyone time without issue.
     
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  10. The Merg

    The Merg 1*

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    Are you referring to 10-12 MRV streams or a combination of active recordings and MRV streaming? 10-12 MRV streams is a lot even for the power users here. However, having 10-12 things being recorded at once along with a few MRV streams might be a possibility. And the number of tuners is relevant. You state that have two Genies (10 tuners) and streaming for MRV would overload the DECA network. I'm saying that we know people that have been able to record 10-12 things at once and are still able to stream via MRV.

    - Merg
     
  11. inkahauts

    inkahauts Well-Known Member

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    1. Actually the genie hard drive right now can handle 9 streams at once today, so we are really talking about moving to at least 12 streams. (I would say they should push to 14 to be honest if they use a 8 tuner dvr) Still I see no reason why a proper hard drive would have an issue with this, as they do not use esata to its fullest potential now as of yet. Original dvrs used esata, not even esata 2. that's 150mb max. And that was plenty to handle 4 streams at once, so that alone should tell you an esata 3 could push 16 streams in theory. But look closer.. Channels are at most 20, (most aren't above 8, but a few ota could be) so your looking at 240 for 12 streams. That is still within esata 2 range, not even 3. SO your discussion about bandwidth doesn't make a lot of sense to me. Hard drive speed may be an issue, but with today's better drives, I doubt it. The issue there is cost, not ability IMHO.

    2. I think 3 clients is more about taxing the processor myself, but not positive. Its definitely not due to moca bandwidth issues. I personally had seven streams plus a vod going once all over moca, so I know that's not the issue. I believe that moca tops at 10, maybe 12, but not positive. I may no someone who could do a test to be sure. The 10 is why I think 5 output streams would be good for a 8 tuner genie.

    3. Its no secret I have two genies and clients. Suffice to say, this is just wrong, all of it. There are some technical reasons two geneis aren't allowed yet, but nothing you mentioned is one of them, and none of them are reasons to worry about it never being possible either.

    I think cost is the reason you wont see a 8 tuner box.

    I also think that in addition to technical reasons, cost is a bit of an issue with two geines because of the cost of a swim16. That could be altered though simply by never giving out discounts on a second genie, or maybe someday we will see a swim that does at least 10 channels. That alone would likely be plenty, because you could run 2 genies plus 6 clients.
     
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  12. JosephB

    JosephB Icon

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    Are both of your Genie "clusters" on the same DECA network? I fail to see why DirecTV would not allow two Genies on the same account if there's no technical restriction. The "cost" of a SWM-16 shouldn't be an issue since one would assume they're not going to give you a discount on a second Genie, so it would follow that they'd expect the customer to pay for the SWM-16. Plus, there are other instances where they install SWM-16s in residential applications.

    It is possible that the restriction is on the management side of things, in that when they built into the conditional access, billing, etc systems at DirecTV the way that a Genie is handled cannot be duplicated easily among accounts. If that is the case then it is just poor planning on their IT group's part.
     
  13. The Merg

    The Merg 1*

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    There are technical issues in how clients connected to one Genie interact with the second Genie. That itself is enough for DirecTV to prevent 2 Genies on one account. And while the consumer might have to cover the cost of the second Genie, DirecTV is still covering the cost of the SWM16 as they do not normally charge for installation (sometimes there is a $50 fee) and all the other expenses of swapping out a SWM-LNB for a SWM16.

    - Merg
     
  14. Pink Jazz

    Pink Jazz Mentor

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    Interesting that your client is choosing to keep his/her H20. Why not replace it with a third Genie Mini Client? That way you can pause and rewind live TV and view recorded programs stored on the Genie for it.
     
  15. The Merg

    The Merg 1*

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    That is interesting. The H20 can't even participate in Whole Home, unless, that is exactly the reason for keeping it. I hope that there's a BSF installed behind it.

    - Merg
     
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  16. JosephB

    JosephB Icon

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    Covering the cost of the SWIM-16, though, is an administrative issue that could be easily changed if there were a high demand for these setups.

    If the issue of having two Genies on the same IP segment (IE: a client can see two servers) is just a software issue, eventually they could fix it.
     
  17. The Merg

    The Merg 1*

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    Eventually they may be able to fix it, however, as of now they haven't and they now prevent 2 Genies from being activated on one account, but it has nothing to do with bandwidth.

    - Merg
     
  18. LiQiCE

    LiQiCE Mentor

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    If you really wanted 2 Genies, could you have 2 Directv accounts (granted you'd be paying through the nose for double programming) - but could you activate a Genie on each account and just use the same dish?

    If you did this - I wonder if MRV would still work between all the receivers.

    Assuming Genie Clients would need to be associated with a particular account and then could only connect to a particular Genie (but if MRV worked - you could still watch what was on the other Genie).
     
  19. The Merg

    The Merg 1*

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    Yes, that would work. However, the issues are when a client sees two Genies. Issues abound then...

    - Merg
     
  20. inkahauts

    inkahauts Well-Known Member

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    Yes they are on the same swim16 running in the exact same deca cloud. Again, like i said, there are a few issues that prevent it from being possible for two genie systems to be on an account today for everyone. they will get worked out.

    I think the key here is you think its a technical restriction. Its NOT. There is technical reasons right now, but reasons have a way of getting worked out.
     

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