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Advice please on new receiver issue

Discussion in 'DIRECTV HD DVR/Receiver Discussion' started by tonyoci, Jul 31, 2013.

  1. inkahauts

    inkahauts Well-Known Member

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    Thanks, I spent a VERY frustrating 2 hours on the phone with DTV and we refreshed/reset multiple times.



    Well it's clear some people are not going to help but since the same two cables work in one receiver and not the other it's rather unlikely to be the cable setup.



    I have a service call set (first one was 10 days out) but again it can't be dish alignment since 3 other receivers, in the same room, same cables, all work.


    Actually, because of stack plans and what tuners all the receivers are on when turned n and other things, I have seen something
    Ike this, where sometimes you'd get it to work and sometimes not. That's why we have been asking to make sure.

    If just swapping the new receiver at any other place in the house is causing the issues, one thing to also try is to redo sat setup and make sure its set up right. If its set for the wrong dish that could be causing issues as well.
     
  2. tonyoci

    tonyoci Legend

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    Thanks again.

    All the receivers are in the same room from the same switch setup. This is why the cable switch not working is confusing and suggests a receiver problem to me.
     
  3. tonyoci

    tonyoci Legend

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    Didn't get it all the way sorted but more accurate facts.

    I have what I think is a slimline 3 dish (see Pic). With two wires out.

    This runs to a single switch (see below), 2 switches was an old setup.

    So can you confirm that's a slimline 3 from this pic ?

    Setup is pretty straightforward.

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     
  4. peds48

    peds48 Genius.

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    That is not a proper way to connect 2 6x8 switches. you would need 4 power pass splitters. I would make sure that the DVRs are coming from the first switch
     
  5. tonyoci

    tonyoci Legend

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    Is that two switches ? It looks like 1x16 switch. Once again I admit to knowing very little.

    It was installed by DTV (if that counts for anything).
     
  6. carl6

    carl6 Moderator Staff Member DBSTalk Club

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    It looks like there are four coax from the dish (2 "double" coax). It's really hard to tell in the picture of the switch, but that also looks like 4 connections on the inputs.
     
  7. tonyoci

    tonyoci Legend

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    There's definitely only 2 lines coming from the dish and into the room. There might be some kind of splitter device hidden away behind the switch. I'll get behind there this weekend.

    Is that a Slimline 3 dish ?
     
  8. HoTat2

    HoTat2 Hall Of Fame

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    Yes, that's a SL-3 with a conventional (non-SWiM) four output LNBF with what looks like two twin lines coming from it.

    So are you sure those two lines you see coming into the switch are not actually two twin lines?
     
  9. tonyoci

    tonyoci Legend

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    Not sure no, how can I tell ?

    One problem I have is that DTV has my account set as a SWM with a different dish type and refuse to help me with anything other than that setup.
     
  10. jimmie57

    jimmie57 Hall Of Fame

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    It is like two fingers stuck together for the whole run except for the last foot or there about.
    That is what it looks like to me also, 2 double coax runs as stated by carl6.
     
  11. carl6

    carl6 Moderator Staff Member DBSTalk Club

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    Looking at the second picture, of the switch, the two connectors on the nearest end have a dual/twin coax connected. See how there are two separate connectors with coax that joins together at the bottom of the loop and are then joined going beyond that? Even though they are "glued together", those are actually two separate coax cables. That is what it looks like is coming out of your dish - two sets of two. And on the top side of your multiswitch, it looks like there are cables connected to four (of the six) connectors, the primary four inputs (the other two open connectors are called flex ports for special purposes).

    From your pictures, it looks like you have the correct four coax coming from the dish to the inputs of the multiswitch. From the outputs of the multiswtich you have the coax that go to the various receivers. Edit - disregard, see comments in following posts.

    Going back and looking at your first few posts and descriptions, let's dig a little deeper. The outputs from the 16 port switch (in your photograph) need to go directly to the inputs of your DVRs. Or, if you have another switch, four of the coax from your first switch must go to the 4 inputs of the second switch (which MUST be a Zinwell WB68 switch). If you are using an older switch, or a 2-input switch, that is the source of your problems, that won't work.

    For sake of clarity, a dual/twin/double coax (such as what are in your pictures) are considered two coax, not one. There are four coax coming from your dish (two pairs).

    With a non-SWM system, you must maintain the four coax integrity through all switches, and all switches must be wideband (such as the Zinwell - that is what the "WB" stands for - wide band). If you drop back to only two coax input to a switch, you will have the types of problems you are experiencing.

    When you get a chance, please verify that you do in fact have two dual coax (four coax) from the dish, that all four inputs to the WB616 switch are connected, and that the outputs of that switch go directly to your DVRs (not through another switch).
     

    Attached Files:

  12. HoTat2

    HoTat2 Hall Of Fame

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    Yeah ...

    I want to be of more help to the TS, but I'm afraid we still need more information on exactly how the setup is wired.

    From what I can see looking at the multi-switch photo closely, it appears to be two WB68 (6x8) switches mounted atop one another with their undersides facing each other and their inputs/outputs pointed in opposite directions.

    The switch on top appears to have only two input lines (one twin cable run) connected to the 99/103 inputs, but nothing connected to the 103/110/119 inputs. The outputs seem to have four lines (two twins) connected.

    For the multi-switch on the bottom, I can't see the number of inputs to that switch nor can I tell much about the outputs other than there are a good number of lines (multiple twins) connected to them.
     
  13. carl6

    carl6 Moderator Staff Member DBSTalk Club

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    You might be right, it is really hard to tell. If that is the case, then what he has isn't going to work. But if he is only using 3 DVRs now (and nothing else), he can drop back to just using one of the two WB68s, connect the four lines from the dish to the four inputs of the WB68, and connect the outputs to the three DVRs.

    In fact, the more I look at it, the more it looks exactly like what you describe, two WB68s mounted back to back, upside down from each other.
     
  14. tonyoci

    tonyoci Legend

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    Thanks. I am planning to get back there on Saturday and clean up / reroute.

    Right now I only have 4 receivers so I think you are saying to push everything into the one switch and just use that. I'm not clear if these switches support 6 or 8 out.

    I still feel all this is a red herring since it all worked before and the 2nd of the new receivers doesn't work even when I reroute the wires from a working receiver.
     
  15. HoTat2

    HoTat2 Hall Of Fame

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    Yep;

    In the photo of the multi-switches, if you look carefully what you label as the "4 inputs" actually appear to be 4 output (two twin) cable connections for a WB68 switch mounted on top. What you label as "outputs" is correct though coming from a another WB68 switch on the bottom and it appears to have a goodly number of cables connected to it's outputs.
     
  16. carl6

    carl6 Moderator Staff Member DBSTalk Club

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    Yes, those switches support 8 tuners (8 outputs). Make sure all 4 connections from the dish go to the four primary inputs (not the flex ports) of the switch you use.

    Your problems stem from the stack plan DirecTV uses on the conventional multiswitch configuration. There are four possible sets of signals that go from the receiver to the dish to tell it (the dish) what transponder and polarization to use for the channel you tuned to. With only two coax from the dish into a multiswitch, only two of those four combinations can possibly exist at any one time. You could have any number of tuners all tuned to the same transponder and polarization and it would work (that is to say, you can actually split a DirecTV coax to multiple receivers, as long as they are all tuned to the same channel). But as soon as you try and tune different sets of channels that result in needing 3 or 4 (rather than 2) of the signalling combinations, things will stop working and you will get the error messages. The document I linked earlier in this thread explains that a little better, and I won't repeat all the technical specifics here - just go to the linked document.

    Before HD (and with your older equipment) two coax/sets of signalling were all that were needed.
     
  17. inkahauts

    inkahauts Well-Known Member

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    If I had to guess, I'd say at one point you had more than eight tuners going and what they did was cascade the two switches. Hence flipping them opposite directions at that time might have been easier to run the wires in such a tight space. I agree with car6, I think things are just hooked up wrong. To bad you don't have more room to get in there. I'd pull that second switch out completely to make it easy to figure out and trace wires.

    I'd also unplug all DVRs while your reconfiguring the connections, and then plug them all in after all are connected correctly.
     
  18. tonyoci

    tonyoci Legend

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    OK, problem solved, thanks for all the guidance.

    What I found was 2 double wires (4 outputs) going into one switch 6 wires out to the receivers and 2 wires out to the other switch which then had 2 wires out to the receiver (I used to have more receivers), the two wires out were from the second switch.

    The first switch (with the 4 in) is a MS6X8WB-Z the second one just says WB68

    So I stopped using the second switch, now I have 4 in 8 out. Initially the HD channels still did not work but I thought I'd try Guided Setup again and presto it works.

    Thanks for being patient and guiding me through this.
     
  19. carl6

    carl6 Moderator Staff Member DBSTalk Club

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    Great news. If you do choose to add another receiver (or more), there are a couple of ways you can do it and make it work. The preferred way would be to get four green-labeled dual port power passing splitters (both ports pass power), and split the four coax from your dish and feed them to the inputs of both multiswitches. Keep the same inputs from each splitter (i.e., 13V no tone on each switch from one splitter, 18V no tone on each switch from another splitter, etc.). Then both switches in parallel should work properly and all 16 outputs should work properly.

    Second way, less desirable (not recommended but will usually work) would be to feed the second switch using four outputs from the first switch. That would give you a total of 12 usable outputs, 4 on the first switch and 8 on the second.

    Also note that your older SD equipment that you had will work properly off the second switch you had the way it was installed. SD equipment only needs two lines, not four, from the dish/LNB. So it probably was set up correctly for the installation/configuration you had but failed when you replaced an SD set with an HD set.
     

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