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Discussion in 'TV Show Talk' started by pablo, Nov 13, 2011.
Think I have that. There's an Irish Catholic in the mix with the Irish Mom. Need I say more?
I personally think what they're trying to do is great. Its good to show Muslim families in America can be just like any average family. But after the last 30 years of Thanksgiving and Christmas holidays, I think an average family is a mess anyway. Who would want to watch it without a good comedy script like "Modern Family"?
I can sympathize with shows like this.
You have trouble with Muslims wanting to throw a little education out there? Let me give you some of my experience.
My ex-wife was and is pagan. In point of fact, she further identifies herself as Wiccan - as in being a Witch. You want to talk about *stereotypes*? Try being Wiccan. A huge number of Christians will then label you as a Satanist, regardless of the fact that Wiccans don't believe Satan even EXISTS.
We used to connect to bulleting boards through a board hosted in Londonderry, NH since that was a local call. The owner of that board was Christian. At one point he actually said that the only thing keeping him from burning my wife alive was the civil law against killing someone. I *wish* I was making this up. (Needless to say we found another way to connect to the BBS system)
So, yeah, when there's a religious minority that wants to debunk some rumors and throw a little bit of the light of truth on a matter; I'm in favor of it.
I think you're doing fine until the part in bold there. Why only a religious minority? Do you not have any issues with falsehoods spoken about majority Christians?
I know that, as a Catholic, I am often lumped in with the most rabid fundamentalist Christian groups. There might be more misconceptions about Catholics than about any other religious group in the entire country. (Oddly, many of those misconceptions come from other Christians, some of whom don't even acknowledge Catholics as Christians.)
Don't even get me started on the atrocities and human rights violations committed by the Roman Catholic Church. History, not religion. And it goes back many centuries.
As if to prove my point.
I didn't commit any atrocities or human rights violations. Thus, what you said has absolutely nothing to do with how I live my life, and how hundreds of millions of people live their lives, as Catholics in 2011. You see, this is no different than what is endured by Muslims, Jews, or any number of mainly peaceful and faithful mainstream groups. So maybe Catholics really DO need their own show on a mainstream cable network to clear up the myriad myths about Catholicism. This is just the tip of the iceberg of the kinds of things I face.
Thanks for the vivid (and likely unintentional) illustration of the main gist of this discussion.
I have no intention of watching this show. Not because I am anti-muslim but rather because this type of show does not interest me.
Same for me.
Here is one Muslim's opinion of the show for those that do watch.
:lol: This part from the article was funny:
Boy, you've got that right. After all, there are a large number of terrorist training camps the world over run by Roman Catholics where fanatics are trained to murder with the intent of causing as many civilian casulties as possible. And of course, Roman Catholics were responsible for all those suicide (homicide) bombers. Roman Catholics have people working on shoe bombs, underwear bombs, toner cartridge bombs, and juice-bottle bombs, not to mention dirty nuclear bombs. Let's not forget the open calls to assisnate people like Salman Rushdie, where tens of thousands came out demanding his execution, and even though he survived, a half dozen people loosly associated with the project were assassinated. Those darned Roman Catholics. Oh, and I just remembered, there is a Roman Catholic fatwa condemning the United States as the Great Satan, and calling all the faithful to work to overthrow the nation.
Yeah, I can understand why peace loving Roman Catholics are misunderstood given the body of evidence against them. It's a shame. Maybe they should be cleaning their own house so no one would have cause to accuse them? Then they wouldn't have need of "we're normal" propoganda.
OK, let's reel it in. A lot.
Mr. AV Guy, I realize you're being facetious to make a point. But this sort of talk doesn't belong on this forum. Let me quote forum rules to the assembled readership:
Let's talk about the show, let's not get into a discussion of comparative religion.
Actually, I can see why he is a stand-up comedian. He was really funny!! I enjoyed his take on the show and the life of an "actual" Muslim American.
Maybe he'll follow up on his own words and get his show onto TLC.
I agree that AV Guy's rant was out of place. But you gotta admit, Say What? was out of line too by provoking that kind of rant.
Ren, you're right. I was too narrow in my statement. (Although, technically, ALL religions are minorities since there isn't one that has 50.1% of the population).
I have issues with people who are overzealous about eliminating Christmas references just as I have issues with people who make up persecution stories (The War On Christmas!).
Being an ex-Catholic, I'm aware of much of what you're talking about, though I didn't personally experience a lot of it. I should mention that, while I have extreme feelings towards the heirarchy of the Church, I bear NO animosity towards members (who were, most often, the victims).
I apologize for giving you the wrong impression - my fault.
Okay, I apologize. I will to the topic of the show. As a person brought up Roman Catholic, I get a bit sensitive to comments about The Inquisition and The Crusades, which happened centuries ago.
Some might not stop there, citing more modern topics such as the pedophilia scandal and invented stuff about suppressing women. But even though the pedophilia scandal was a great stain for the Church, some would still like to pretend that it's scope was greater than it actually was. Only a tiny fraction of priests were ever implicated in the abuse cases, and almost all of them happened more than a decade before the scandal broke.
That's NOT to diminish any case of child abuse and their cover-ups -- indeed every case is horrendous and inexcusable. People just need to place the true scope of the abuse (number of cases, number of perps, etc.) into perspective. Very few Catholics, out of 1 billion worldwide, have been directly involved as a perp or a victim. The mistakes and sins of the few do not delegitimize the holy works of the many.
An ideology is "the body of doctrine, myth, belief, etc., that guides an individual, social movement, institution, class, or large group." Xenophobia relates to being "unreasonably fearful of or hating anyone or anything foreign or strange."
Describing oneself as an American Muslim or an American Christian or an American Secular Relativist is a double ideological statement of identity potentially fraught with xenophobic implications.
Unfortunately, people tend to create such belief systems creating "group" identities that in the end justify xenophobic attitudes while still believing they are nice people. As somebody once commented "even Hitler liked children and dogs."
The show that is the topic of this thread and the discussion in this thread raise some "personal responsibility" questions related to group ideology and xenophobia that became a very big issue in the 20th Century. The issue goes something like this:
If you belong to a local Rotary Club, you contribute your money, reputation and influence, and time in support for its local, national, and international, operations and charities. You believe you are doing "good works." But then some Rotarians in several locations across the world use the organization's resources - the name and reputation, combined influence, and even some of its monies - to do things you don't approve of, things that you think are morally wrong. At what point does your continued participation in your local Rotary Club become tacit acceptance of what those other Rotarians are doing?
Obviously I'm using Rotary to make a point. But this discussion was extended to include the activities and citizens of the nations of Germany and Japan caught up in a broad xenophobia in the first half of the 20th Century. It raises difficult questions because Germans, for instance, paid taxes that supported atrocities. Did that make all German taxpayers responsible for what we now assign vaguely to "Nazi's". The questions raised include:
At what point does lack of active resistance to evil constitute guilt by virtue of continued association with a group?
Can the ignorance choice free you of responsibility for what is obviously being perpetrated by your "group"?
Can you be a member of a group like the Irish Republican Army (IRA) and not share responsibility for what atrocities other members commit?
Do the good, charitable acts associated with a formal group of people balance out the evil done by others in the name of the group?
When does believing something is good justify harming others (this is how all wars are justified, including defensive wars)?
More to the point of this show, where does responsibility begin and end for "ordinary good people" who are members of extremely large worldwide organized religions, most of which at various times, have some members committing evil xenophobic acts in the name of, or hiding behind, the religion (i.e. Catholic and Protestant in Ireland, Shia and Sunni in the Middle East, Hindu and Muslim in the Indian Subcontinent)?
These are tough issues. Are there ideological and xenophobic implications in identity? If I call myself a Secular Relativist Californian, does that make you feel somewhat alienated from me?
Including the Pope himself, before he was elevated. He was in a position where he was directly responsible for some of the coverup.
As for the show in question, I don't watch reality shows, so the whole thing is irrelevant to me.
Okay, STILL off topic, and I'm sorry, but...
I couldn't agree with this post more strongly. In any large hierarchical organization, the Catholic church, the U.S. congress, (University atletic departments) etc. will have cases of abuses, and cover-ups. When the Church's abuse scandal hit the news, my heart sank because I unfortunately realized that this had undoubtedly been going on for centuries, and only now has it come to light.
There is a place for these pedophile priests--JAIL! They don't get, or deserve a pass because of their vocation. If anything, they deserve a more severe judgement.
As far as the show goes, the second episode has shown, or is showing today, and I haven't even had a chance to see the first episode yet. Does anyone know how many episodes are planned?