AMC-14 failed to reach the planned orbit

Discussion in 'General DISH™ Discussion' started by P Smith, Mar 15, 2008.

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  1. man_rob

    man_rob Hall Of Fame

    Feb 21, 2007
    The problem seems to lie between SES, and Boeing. SES is suing Boeing for 50 million on an unrelated matter, so Boeing isn't so open to allowing SES to use their patented Around The Moon Satellite Recovery (TM) technique without SES dropping that suit. SES doesn't want to deal with a legal challenge to Boeing's patent claim on the Around The Moon Satellite Recovery (TM) technique. (which in and of itself seems ridiculous)

    Maybe a third party could work something out, but word has it they are going to bring it down within days.
  2. Gilitar

    Gilitar Legend

    Jul 31, 2004
    If the bit about the patent is true, it's just another example of what is wrong with the patent system. I'm surprised breathing isn't patented.

    Sucks to hear the satellite is lost. Maybe they can rush another one up in the next year or so.
  3. dms1

    dms1 Legend

    Oct 25, 2007
    Actually, advocates for patent reform could use this to their advantage, at least in increasing public awareness of the problem. Most patent disputes are far too complex for the general public who end up feeling the fallout without understanding what happened, but in this case something along the lines of "Boeing patents gravity" would make a good headline.
  4. crashHD

    crashHD Godfather

    Feb 29, 2008
    That was me. Everyone that hasn't floated into space must immediately begin paying me damages.
  5. fredp

    fredp Legend

    Jun 2, 2007
    This is a quote from an alt.dbs.echostar appender. Funny but sad...

    Can you imagine such nonsense in the Apollo 13 days? "Jim, we think we've
    got a procedure that might get you boys home- but just to be safe, we're
    running it by the lawyers first.." ;-)
  6. Richard King

    Richard King Hall Of Fame

    Mar 25, 2002
    Just for that I am going to begin a boycott of Boeing. I will no longer buy ANY of their airplanes.

    This is the problem with this kind of patent abuse. There is literally nothing that the general public can do about it. This is patent abuse taken to the extreme.
  7. kog

    kog Mentor

    Jul 11, 2007
    From the SES press release:

    That $150 million seems kind of low to me. Doesn't the satellite plus launch cost add up to quite a bit more than that? I believe Dish also has insurance on this satellite... wonder what their payout will be like.
  8. HDRoberts

    HDRoberts Godfather

    Dec 11, 2007
    For those that think the Boeing patent theory is wrong because it isn't in the press release, I think the above statement could we be an allusion to the patent issues. Besides getting sued by Boeing, what other "unacceptable risks" to trying a lunar assist maneuver is there?
  9. cartrivision

    cartrivision Hall Of Fame

    Jul 25, 2007
    It is very bizarre. Hughes was probably the original owner of that patent, and I assume that Boeing acquired it when they purchased the satellite operations of Hughes.

    Back in the day when I worked for Hughes, I remember that there was an ongoing push to encourage their engineers to acquire patents for any patentable process that was developed at Hughes. The number of patents acquired for Hughes was a metric that was periodically reported by management when they gave state of the company (or division) presentations to employees, and it was also made known by management that acquiring patents for Hughes was something that was looked upon positively when considering the possible promotion of their engineers. Given that kind of push, I’ll bet that Hughes (now Boeing) holds lots of “bizarre” patents besides this one which seems to claim exclusive rights to the use of the moon’s gravity.
  10. davisdog

    davisdog Mentor

    Dec 26, 2002
    You could always end up in a worse/hazardous position or I can think of a few other things..too bad they had insurance that gives them an easier out to abandon the effort.

    anyway, I would doubt they would mention the patent issues in the press release anyway, because of slander/liability issues...of having that complaint become part of the public record that could open up more bad blood in the ongoing legal proceedings between them.
  11. tnsprin

    tnsprin Hall Of Fame

    Mar 15, 2003
    Probably things get complicated. ILS might have to insure or eat some of the launch cost seperately from SES's lose of the satellite.
  12. cartrivision

    cartrivision Hall Of Fame

    Jul 25, 2007
    That's what happened when Hughes rescued ASIASAT3 ten years ago. It was declared a total loss, the insurance company paid Hughes for the insured value of the satellite, and then Hughes bought the satellite back from the insurance company for it's salvage value.

    It wasn't much different from what happens every day when an auto insurance company "totals" a car and pays off the owner for the insured value and then the owner buys it back from the insurance company and fixes it up to drivable but less than ideal condition with part of the insurance money.
  13. cartrivision

    cartrivision Hall Of Fame

    Jul 25, 2007
    Exactly. Big corporations almost never comment publicly on matters of current or potential litigation, other than saying, "It's our policy not to comment on matters of current or potential litigation".
  14. James Long

    James Long Ready for Uplink! Staff Member Super Moderator

    Apr 17, 2003
    It is a shame that it is going to be deorbited.

    Here's a wild thought: Insurance buys the satellite and sells it to Hughes ... Hughes uses their "patented" around the moon maneuver to get the satellite into orbit at 61.5° and leases or sells the satellite to Echostar.

    Echostar owns the licenses at 61.5°, so it isn't an issue of it being an SES slot for an SES satellite. It would work if Hughes was willing to take a risk and the satellite isn't in the atmosphere before they get a chance.
  15. Tom Robertson

    Tom Robertson Lifetime Achiever DBSTalk Club

    Nov 15, 2005
    Sorry if this thread has become a bit tattered. I moved a series of OT posts from the DIRECTV 11 Post Separation thread that seemed to have a bit of relevance here.

    It will all straighten itself out in a few minutes, knowing this crowd.

    Thanks for understanding,
  16. Mikey

    Mikey Hall Of Fame

    Oct 26, 2004

    ESPNSTI Cool Member

    Feb 27, 2008
    Perhaps it will inadvertently suck the moon down to earth? :scratch:
  18. grooves12

    grooves12 Godfather

    Oct 27, 2005
    There will be a LOT of time and money involved in planning and implementing a recovery operation. If it doesn't work out they will have wasted lots of man hours and truckloads of cash. It is easier for them to just move on and start working on the next project.
  19. Kheldar

    Kheldar Icon

    Sep 5, 2004
    And, if they tried and failed, wouldn't they be giving up their insurance payment? If they tried and failed, the insurance company could then say they damaged it themselves and decline payment, right?
  20. kog

    kog Mentor

    Jul 11, 2007
    Any proposed action by SES would probably get run through various lawyers and the insurance company to make sure it wouldn't screw up their insurance coverage. The sad truth is it's just easier for SES to deorbit the satellite than try and go through all that trouble. Hopefully SES or the insurance company will find a buyer for the satellite and they can do something useful with it. This satellite is suppose to have some pretty interesting hardware on it.

    I believe Dish has also stated they bought insurance on this satellite being operational also. I wonder what kind of payout Dish will get from this?
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