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Any chance of HD being standard anytime soon?

Discussion in 'DIRECTV General Discussion' started by mogulman, Sep 23, 2009.

  1. Tom Robertson

    Tom Robertson Lifetime Achiever DBSTalk Club

    Nov 15, 2005
    Even then. The competitor needs to get some competitive advantage from it. Dish is becoming all MPEG4, but that isn't a competitive advantage for them. Users don't care.

    DIRECTV has LOTS of bandwidth and launching a satellite is loads cheaper than replacing 40M MPEG2 receivers.

    Customers will organically migrate to HD and off SD receivers. DIRECTV won't have to force or push anyone for a long time, just let it evolve on its own.

  2. RCY

    RCY Godfather

    Nov 16, 2005
    I thought the point of the thread was when will D* quit charging extra for HD. Even if D* still has 40M MPEG2 receivers, that doesn't prevent them from saying there is no extra monthly charge for HD programming.

    The moment a competitor begins to erode D*'s market share because they're offering "free" HD, I suspect D* will follow suit.
  3. Tom Robertson

    Tom Robertson Lifetime Achiever DBSTalk Club

    Nov 15, 2005
    :) Hokay, point taken. (And it's a good one too.) :)

    That will be an interesting evolution. And we'll all be here to watch. :)

  4. mystic7

    mystic7 Icon

    Dec 9, 2007
    Where I live, Directv still charges me extra for full color programming ;)
  5. Mike Bertelson

    Mike Bertelson 6EQUJ5 WOW! Staff Member Super Moderator DBSTalk Club

    Jan 24, 2007
    Ummmm....what? :ewww:

    Otherwise you get B&W? :grin:
  6. HoTat2

    HoTat2 Hall Of Fame

    Nov 16, 2005
    I also think another point is being overlooked, though maybe not as problematic as converting everyone to MPEG-4 receivers, but nevertheless significant, is that to turn off the Ku band SD duplicates means the end of the ubiquitous Phase I round dish pointed at 101. As everyone would have to be upgraded to a Ka/Ku ODU dish to receive the HD signals on Ka band.

    So besides the additional cost of this, I would imagine there are many who still prefer the small size and unobtrusiveness of the small round 18x20 in. dish and would not be happy with the much larger and not as aesthetically pleasing Ka/Ku band ODU on their property.

    In fact that was one of the primary selling points of DBS service over the C-band BUD since it's inception. The promise of all those crystal clear digital channels received on small "pizza-sized" dishes.
  7. Movieman

    Movieman Hall Of Fame

    May 8, 2009
    I hope that this will be standard. I am holding out on getting any new tv's (unless they break) until broadcasters start going 1080P. I know I will be waiting for some time. As far as charging for HD they already have plans where the charge is already included.
  8. hasan

    hasan Well-Known Member

    Sep 22, 2006
    Ogden, IA
    I'll say! 1080p over the air is not possible without a complete restructuring of the allotted bandwidth, or some sort of breakthrough in compression technology. Basically, 1080p OTA is "unlikely" for a very, very long time.

    Same problem for cable and perhaps worse for satellite. Perhaps fiber optic cable to the home may do it for cable. Satellite it is completely different issue.

    I'm not sure the investment in infrastructure for 1080p is worth it. I can't imagine what the payback cycle would be like.

    I don't have any SD stuff left in the house, but the HD equipment is all 720p. I've not been even remotely motivated to buy a new TV with 1080p. I've seen it (1080p) as good as it can be, and it is only marginally better than 720p. I can see the difference, but I sure wouldn't pay a premium to get it (especially since it is only readily available to me on Blu Ray.)

    So, I, like you, am waiting...just for something different....my current HD TVs to bite the dust.:)

    I'll bet I'm done waiting (for my TVs to fail/lose brightness), before you are done waiting for infrastructure improvements to get you 1080p.:) (comment meant in fun, not to be taken seriously!)
  9. xmetalx

    xmetalx Godfather

    Jun 3, 2009
    I know, I know, i'm quoting all the way from pg1. Regardless though, there is plenty of evidence to show that D* is still installing MPEG2 recievers. If you don't believe me, call up an installation tech, or an activation CSR and ask them how often they activate SD recievers.
  10. gary900

    gary900 Legend

    Feb 16, 2009
    For many years, my wife and I viewed TV on a very old 32” Panasonic CRT TV that just refused to die with Ch**r cable and used a Sony VCR to tape programs. As HDTV became available I foamed at the mouth to get one. However, my wife was always commenting about “how great the picture looked on our TV”. Numerous trips to the stores that sold and displayed HDTV failed to impress her about HDTV. Her thing was that as long as our old TV still had such a “great picture” she could not justify purchase of an expensive HDTV set. Sigh.

    Last January a miracle happened. My wife turned on the old faithful Panny TV, it made a snapping sound, smoked from the back and then nothing. Dead.

    This was one of the better moments of my life. The old SD set died, and according to me no chance to fix it. Too old, no parts available. (grin).

    So, from where we were I went to a 52” Sony XBR6 HDTV and switched to D**** with two HR22-100’s and HDTV packages. I also replaced my upstairs bedroom gazillion year old SD TV with a Sharp 32” LCD HDTV connected to the second HR22-100 receiver. Also, I ran CAT5e Ethernet cable from my router to each of the receivers to take advantage of VOD, Media Share and Directv2PC. This will also be used for MRV. To increase the HD experience I also added and surround sound system and Blue Ray play to the 52” TV.

    My wife will reluctantly agree that the picture and sound are now “pretty good” but I think that secretly she is impressed but does not want to admit it.

    I guess that the point I am trying to get across is that HDTV is a giant leap forward, as color was to black and white. It may take a while, but eventually it will be the standard.

    I think 3d TV (without having to wear special glasses) and paper thin OLED TVs will be the next big things in TV viewing. :D
  11. Brennok

    Brennok Legend

    Dec 23, 2005
    I must say this was one of the perks of trying Fios. They don't have a seperate HD package and it is included. While it is true I am still only using SD sets, I was already tired of center-cut programming on the SD channels. I now record everything in HD.

    The extra fees on DTV for HD programming and well lack of Tivo is what stopped me from just upgrading to HD on DTV.

    I will be upgrading to at least one HD set in the next few months if I can find a good deal on a 58"-65" Plasma.
  12. YKW06

    YKW06 Legend

    Feb 2, 2006
    1080p/60, sure. But the 1080p/24 movie standard would actually take up a smaller amount of bandwidth than the 1080i/60 standard already used for broadcast. The problem is that many HD sets don't have the capacity to decode the 1080p/24 standard, so there's little motivation for broadcasters to send out signals they know can't be received*.

    * -- Unlike during the DTV conversion period when broadcasters knew that many of their signals couldn't be picked up but also knew that an ever-increasing number of sets were out there, they now know most people have already made their final decisions on how they will watch digital broadcasts and are highly unlikely to change gear again just to receive signals they presumed their equipment would display when they bought it. Mandating support for 1080p/24 in sets going forward would be helpful, but it could take a decade before the installed base of sets is overwhelmingly capable of displaying such broadcasts.
  13. Shades228

    Shades228 DaBears

    Mar 18, 2008
    You missed the point. They will no longer have a SD or HD receiver they will just have a non DVR. This has been on their agenda for a long time. They will not make a dedicated Mpeg 4 standard and maintain a standard HD receiver as well. Hence my reference to the R-22 where they tried it and it didn't work.
  14. cartrivision

    cartrivision Hall Of Fame

    Jul 25, 2007
    I think that we are both saying the same thing, but it hard to tell from how you have worded what you are trying to say above.

    BTW, I don't know what makes you think that the R22 "didn't work". It worked perfectly well and is still in service, mostly in markets where SD customers have locals that are only available in MPEG4. It might be too costly right now for DirecTV to use it for all SD DVR installs, but it certainly works perfectly well for such an application.
  15. BattleZone

    BattleZone Hall Of Fame

    Nov 13, 2007
    The R22 was discontinued due to the economy. The original plan was to phase out the R16 and install only R22s, but with the economy, and given that the R22 has no RF output (being nothing more than a re-badged HR21) and thus requires a modulator to work with many older TVs, it was decided to discontinue the R22 and go back to installing R16s as the SD-DVR. Areas that require MPEG4 receivers to get their locals will now get an HR2x if they order a DVR, and will just have no HD if they don't pay for HD service.

    Honestly, it never really made sense to make the R22 as a separate model...
  16. rudeney

    rudeney Hall Of Fame

    May 28, 2007
    I'm not arguing the truth of your claim, but do you have the facts to backup that statement? It seems to me that economically speaking, the R22 was a good idea. Leveraging economies of scale can greatly reduce the manufacturing costs and simplify everything from ordering to shipping.
  17. BattleZone

    BattleZone Hall Of Fame

    Nov 13, 2007
    DirecTV mentioned something about the move back to the R16 in an investors' call or announcement. Anyway, the cost of an R16 is apparently low enough to warrent its continued production, but it never made sense to make the R22, when it's exactly the same hardware as an HR21. And finally DirecTV is doing what they should have done in the beginning: use HR2x's and disable HD via software for those who don't subscribe. That *does* help to simplify the inventory.

    IMO, by spring of next year, I'd bet DirecTV will drop the R16 entirely and just install HRs for folks who order a DVR. No inside knowledge; just my guess.
  18. MIMOTech

    MIMOTech Legend

    Sep 11, 2006
    The Transition to HD...

    The SD/HD conversion issue is something that will around for a while. Major issues are:
    1.) Number of SD/single sat dishes still in use.
    2.) Number households with at least one HD display.

    On issue 1 at some point DTV may have to start squeezing the number of channels down. That is begin eliminating channels in SD that have an HD duplicate. If you want that those channels you will have to upgrade to an RX capable of receiving the HD only version. Also if DTV starts broadcasting the HD channel on the SD counterpart in 16x9. Some cable companies are already doing this on some of their channels. People will be forced to upgrade if they don't like the small picture on their 4x3 TV. This will take time but you have to some how move the unmovable to this solution. They don't need new sets just receivers.

    As for issue 2 as people move to 16x9 HD flat screens and this is well on it's way. You will notice, and I am sure you have most stores have 99% flat screens and maybe a few rear projection HD displays. I think it will be when we reach more then 50% penetration is when DTV will start its move to 100% HD.

    When it does make that move then all the old band width will be converted to MPEG-4. And HD can let it belt out and digest all kinds of HD channels...

  19. HoTat2

    HoTat2 Hall Of Fame

    Nov 16, 2005

    Well this may be too much of a brute force approach. Even with a long period of forewarning, to start turning off SD duplicates and thereby hope to coerce SD only subscribers to upgrade their dishes, receivers, and other auxiliary equipment without financial compensation would undoubtably anger and alienate many customers. Something any rational service provider in his right mind never wants to do. :nono2:

    Now this more subtle course of trying to nudge subscribers off of MPEG-2 SD is worth considering, but there may be a technical problem here. For with the possible exception of the old Hughes HR10-250, I don't know if DirecTV's MPEG-2 receivers are capable of properly receiving a 16X9 formatted signal. I know that many are supposed to have the capability to receive and correctly display an anamorphic 16x9 signal squeezed into a 4:3 frame if DirecTV sets the flag properly in the stream, but I don't know if they can receive and process a native 16x9 program from the satellites much less then letterbox the output for a 4:3 set.
  20. JoeTheDragon

    JoeTheDragon Hall Of Fame

    Jul 21, 2008
    can they start to move stuff like NFL ST to mpeg 4 only and give people free hardware upgrades.

    is 2012 a go target time? same time analog cable is likey to be 100% gone for the big guys.

    Direct tv can come out with 1 tuner mini drvs (no dvr fee) (does not even need a hard disk just put in some flash / ram.) that can have small live buffer and also use it for a MVR and VOD buffer as well and just move the old sd pepole to it and or a low cost mpeg 4 box.

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