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Archbishop softens stand

Discussion in 'The OT' started by Bogy, Sep 5, 2004.

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  1. Bogy

    Bogy Hall Of Fame

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    I did not criticize you for using scripture, but for using it to bash Catholics. Catholic leadership has traditionally recognized that no candidate, including candidates who are Catholic, conform to RC teaching on every issue. Bush falls short on some other major issues such as capitol punishment, just war, and caring for the poor and powerless. These issues make the choice by Catholics less than a slam dunk. Catholics have traditionally been more concerned with the common worker than most Protestants, who have been more concerned with the management/owner side of things.

    Your second paragraph describing the catholic church as the breeding ground for democrats who want the faith believing citizens to think that they are of a moral background shows your bigotry on a number of levels. Catholics and Democrats are immoral while Republican Protestants are "faith believing." Since Buckeye Chris doesn't seem to have a problem when YOU bash Catholics, let me just say on behalf of a lot of Catholic friends, both lay and fellow pastors that I find your attack very dispicable.

    Are you sure you aren't just a younger Rage/Roger?
     
  2. Paladin

    Paladin Banned User

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    Again, actions speak louder than words. Slowly taking over an organization from the inside is ingenious. If the conservatives were as underhanded and sneaky as the dems we would be incharge of the ACLU, all of the news media, PETA, and the Oakland Raiders.

    BTW, here are some Bible passages about you:

    Matthew 7:15 - Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves.

    Matthew 24:11 - And many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many.

    Matthew 24:24 - For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.

    Mark 13:22 - For false Christs and false prophets shall rise, and shall shew signs and wonders, to seduce, if it were possible, even the elect.

    Luke 6:26 - Woe unto you, when all men shall speak well of you! for so did their fathers to the false prophets.

    2 Peter 2:1 - But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction.

    1 John 4:1 - Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world.

    Revelation 16:13 - And I saw three unclean spirits like frogs come out of the mouth of the dragon, and out of the mouth of the beast, and out of the mouth of the false prophet.

    Revelation 19:20 - And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.
     
  3. Danny R

    Danny R Goblin the Pug DBSTalk Gold Club

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    Hey Bogy, if I sold you my soul could you get me tommorrows lottery numbers?

    Geez, what an idiot.

    Even if I took any of that seriously, I would find it incredibly ironic of Paladin to call Bogy a false profit. Between the two, I think Bogy's theology is much more sound. Paladin spews only hate.
     
  4. Paladin

    Paladin Banned User

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    You would. Most people in the last days will take the easy way. Look, I can't help that Bogy teaches un-biblical doctrine, I'm just pointing it out. You and Bogy spew ignorance and falsehoods, lying is always easier than telling the truth.
     
  5. Bogy

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    Paladin, do you know what it means to take passages out of context? Lets take a look at a few more verses around one of your quotes.
    The message/true prophecy of Jesus is one of love and compassion. Any message/prophecy that emphasizes hate, division, and does not emphasize compassion for the poor and powerless is false. All of us fall short of meeting God's standard, but you don't need to work so hard at it. :D
     
  6. jonstad

    jonstad Hall Of Fame

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    When the "Rapture" comes, can I have your car? Better yet, sign it over to me now!:D
     
  7. Paladin

    Paladin Banned User

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    Jun 20, 2004
    Take the crucifiction for example: Three people on crosses next to each other, two criminals and Jesus. One criminal denies Christ even daring Him to prove himself. The other recognizes his sin and accepts Jesus. Jesus tells him he will be with him in Paradise. One would assume that the criminal that denied Jesus went to Hell and the one that accepted went to Heaven. Did Jesus not love both criminals? Did he say he was sacrificing himself for all except the one that questioned him. No. What he did do was make the repentant acceptable to go to heaven, while the unrepentant was not. Pointing out sin for repentance is not hatefilled, devisive, or uncompassionate. It's all in the Bible for those who wish to listen. But to blindly accept someone without the main goal of thier repentance is foolish and ignorant. These are the rules, either you follow them or you don't get in. There is no gray areas. If a man steals a loaf of bread for his starving family, is he not sinning? He is, for God set up a method to rely on Him for our needs.
     
  8. Bogy

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    The thief on the cross was a special case. Waiting till the last moment is not recommended. Here is what Jesus had to say about who would be entering the Kingdom. If you see a family who is starving and do not give them a loaf of bread, but criticize the family for not getting jobs and buying their own bread, you may be exiting to the left.
     
  9. toenail

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    So if the only way to save his starving family is to take the bread, you would prefer the family starve than to take the bread? What if you were the individual and the family was yours? Your view is extreme, and I don't think it is consistent with the Bible or Jesus's teachings. Ever hear of the Golden Rule? Would not the "thief" be sinning by not taking action? Do unto others as you would have them do unto you. If you were a child, you would want your father to feed you if he was able. So, likewise if you are a father with a starving child, you should feed it. If that means taking the bread (so long as you are not depriving another person of required sustenance), then it is surely a lesser sin (if it is a sin, which I doubt) than letting your child die. Does that mean that you failed to rely on God? Not necessarily. Perhaps you prayed and prayed and nothing happened. Who is to say that God was not responsible for putting the bread on the shelf where it could be obtained. For you and your family. What is to stop you from paying back the store, ten-fold, at a later point to show your gratitude? When you took the bread, did you have the heart of the thief, or of a father?

    Having prosecuted cases from speeding to murder over two decades, I think I can tell you that no prosecutor in their right mind, knowing the facts in a case like this, would prosecute it. BTW, ever read or see Les Miserables?
     
  10. Paladin

    Paladin Banned User

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    I think we can both agree that helping one another was what Jesus has called us to do. Hopefully we can also agree that:

    You must accept Jesus in to your heart and repent in order the enter Heaven.

     
  11. Paladin

    Paladin Banned User

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    Do unto others as you would have them do to you. Steal that loaf of bread because you would want them to steal it from you? Illogical.

    God would never put someone in the position of breaking his commandments. Illogical.

    If everyone was following the teachings of Christ then there would be no children starving. No, when people back away from his word, people suffer.

    Let's see, I've seen reports of a brutal child rapist get 6 months in jail. Kobe getting away with rape. OJ killed his wife and was aquitted only to be found guilty in the civil case :confused:. There seems to be more negatives then positives. Personally if the person asked I would have given them the bread. I might not even have a problem with them stealing it if thier child was starving. But I'm a flawed person who didn't make the rules. God did, and He is flawless. So if He say thou shalt not steal, there is no exception.
     
  12. Bogy

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    Do you realize that none of the quotes you gave say anything about accepting Jesus in your heart. They do talk about repentance, which is "changing direction."

    Go back to the parable Jesus told about who would be accepted into the Kingdom. Nothing there about accepting Jesus, but it does talk about motives and "direction." Put it into context with this exchange.
    "What must I do to be receive eternal life?"
    "Love the Lord your God with all your heart, soul, mind and strength, and your neighbor as yourself."
    You need to learn to minimize your legalism, and emphasize your compassion.

    Unless of course your whole purpose in this exercise is to "show up the liberal preacher." :D
     
  13. Bogy

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    Entirely true. But since we don't live in that perfect world and never do in this life, it is our responsiblity to act to make a positive change in this world.
    In your scripture quoting you might want to look at what Jesus said when he broke the law having to do with not working on the Sabbath when he healed a woman. He said that the Sabbath was made for our benefit, not as a way to punish us. When God's laws are used to beat people up who are already weak and powerless it is the height of hypocrisy. God is all about change and exceptions. Read the Gospels. Sit down and read a Gospel all the way through, not just picking out a verse here and there. None of them is so long that you can't read the whole thing in one sitting. When you do this note how often Jesus "breaks the rules." How often he "bucks the establishment." In fact, take special note of the fact that Jesus ends up on a cross because he defies the rulers of the day and threatens the status quo, the people who enforce "the rules." That is what prophets, true prophets, do today as well.

    And if you think everyone loves me because I am liberal and thats why I'm liberal, you must be living in a nation other than the one I live in. I had members at one church complain because I spent to much time feeding and caring for those in need. Fortunately in that church I had enough other members who understood the necessity of that action that they were just a nuisance. But I was forced to leave another church because I was "to liberal."
     
  14. SimpleSimon

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    Bogy: Just for future reference as to where I stand, ;) you're making a lot more sense than Paladin. :)
     
  15. BuckeyeChris

    BuckeyeChris Icon/Supporter

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    I was not referring to the thread you referenced. I took offense to the first part of your statement made on this thread: http://www.dbstalk.com/showpost.php?p=284112&postcount=30. Bashing Catholicisim may be a "fun activity" and "all to easy for real sport" to you Reverend, but I don't find anything about bashing Catholics fun or sporting.
     
  16. toomuchtv

    toomuchtv Godfather

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    May 17, 2002

    AMEN!
     
  17. Bogy

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    I'm sorry if that offended you, but take another look at it, and the context of the posts preceding it.
    The thread was about the denial of first communion by the RC church to an 8 year old girl. There was already lots of Catholic bashing going on, and I was trying to defuse it in a "light hearted" way. I'm sorry if it was taken differently. My denomination is all to often misunderstood as well, by those who are not a part of it (and sometimes by those who are.)
     
  18. HappyGoLucky

    HappyGoLucky Banned User

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    Quoting Bible verses out of context is a sure indication that the person is ignorant of the Bible and the religion behind it.
     
  19. Paladin

    Paladin Banned User

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    An athiest calling me ignorant of the Bible? If you had any understanding at all of the Bible, you wouldn't be an an athiest :) .
     
  20. AllieVi

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    Do you feel the same way about the Koran? Did you read both the Bible and the Koran before choosing your religion?
     
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