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Bikers roll to military funerals to oppose anti-gay protests

Discussion in 'The OT' started by tommccann, Feb 21, 2006.

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  1. Feb 27, 2006 #81 of 102
    Redster

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    But doesnt the largest church on the planet,, Catholic... as a general rule of thumb, excommunicate a women if she seeks a divorce ?

    What gets me is that it seems like there are 2 Gods. One of the old testament and one in the new. The old God was full of fire & brimstone,, eye for an eye,, blood sacrifices in my name. I am so mad at those dang humans that I am going to drown them,, including children. Yet the latter God is full of love and forgiveness, perhaps someone just forgot to change his rules to include homosexuals .
     
  2. Feb 27, 2006 #82 of 102
    zman977

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    That's a slippery slope argument if I ever heard one. Trying to say that allowing homosexuals to marry would lead to complete abandonment of all laws is just ridiculous. Great Britton and Ontario Canada allow homosexuals to marry. I have yet to see grandmothers and ten year olds rushing to the alters in those locations nor do I see men marrying a second or third wife just because their spouse was ill. Slippery slope arguments tend to be false arguments and a little irrational.
     
  3. Feb 27, 2006 #83 of 102
    Bogy

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    pjmrt, the Bible also has some stuff to say about "bearing false witness." We have been over this often enough to know how ridiculous your grandma and 10 year old argument is. Just because I left "adult" out of the loving, committed ralationship description doesn't mean you can stick it in there. A 10 year old cannot enter into a equal relationship with an adult. You are getting pretty desparate, aren't you?

    Paul didn't have to go into long discussions about temple prostitutes because the people he was writing to were familiar with the practice. Just as they were familiar with the practice of meat being offered to gods, which today has to be explained, along with a number of other practices of the day.

    Its sad that you hold a book in such high esteem that you use it to bash people with. It is sad that you hold printed pages in such high esteem that they are of greater value to you than the spirit of the message the word's hold. Jesus, and the prophets, brought the message that the spirit was more important than observing every item of the law with perfection. You know the law, you don't know much about true worship and forgiveness.
     
  4. Feb 27, 2006 #84 of 102
    Bogy

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    One God, and you can find the same God in the Old Testament as you do in the New Testament. The prophets like Isaiah and Micah bring a message that God cares more about how we treat others than the sacrifices we bring to an altar. But you have to look past the places where men were using what "God wants" arguement to get what they wanted, to find that God.
     
  5. Feb 27, 2006 #85 of 102
    jonstad

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    The reality is that for most of human history women have been regarded as little more than the property of males. And that "regard" was often codified into law and certainly into traditions and practice. This is particularly true of societies of the Abrahamic faiths, and as I have pointed out, continues to this day! On very rare occasion, a female may have come to power and promenence, but it is the exception rather than the rule. And almost always in such instances, the female is a secondary figure at best intwined in the counterplay between her male counterparts. There are very few if any matriarchies in history and any that are were short-lived. Patriarchy is the rule and has been a very hard rule to break!

    But if you want to continue in your little dream world where women throughout history have been regularly granted anything remotely approaching equal citizenship in ANY society, dream on. And BTW, until the last hundred years or so, NO society, particularly not Jewish, Christian or Islamic societies, have granted women even legal equality. Even the most progressive(liberal?) western societies did not even allow women the right to vote until very late in the 19th century. Our own nation, much less than 100 years ago!:nono:
     
  6. Feb 27, 2006 #86 of 102
    jonstad

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    So, your contention is Paul would ALWAYS qualify his "opinions" as such, but all the rest was the unadulterated "Word of God"?:rotfl:

    The only thing more dangerous then humans who proclaim they "speak for God", is those who would unquestioningly accept it as truth! Among "the dangerous" we may count myriad examples of "faith" inspired atrocity and excess, including of course today's Islamic jihadists!

    Many would pretend to "speak for God", very often contradicting each other. Even assuming there IS a God, and that "God" has decided to "speak" through humans rather than directly to all humans, how to you decide who actually DOES "speak for God"? And how do you decide which are out for individual monetary and political gain, for POWER? And how do you decide who has a chemical imbalance in their brains or applies herbs, drugs or fasting to achieve hallucinogenic delusional states to initiate their "conversations with God"???
     
  7. Feb 28, 2006 #87 of 102
    billpa

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    It still amazes me how these right-wing Christian are so fixated with gay people and say nothing or, at least, 'less' about real evil things.
    The fact is, with each passing generation, the homophobia level in this country will continue to drop and we won't need to have these types of debates.
     
  8. Mar 1, 2006 #88 of 102
    Fifty Caliber

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    This is sort of like all the anti-Iraqi liberation protesters who say they support the troops, but do not support the war efforts. This "support" includes protesting outside of VA hospitals and generally being as ass to people who honorably served their nation in its efforts to bring freedom to the Iraqi people.
     
  9. Mar 2, 2006 #89 of 102
    djlong

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    ...and we all know how much Jesus (who hung around exclusively with 12 guys) spoke out against homosexuality.
     
  10. Mar 2, 2006 #90 of 102
    Bogy

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    Don't forget the prostitute that hung out with them.
     
  11. Mar 3, 2006 #91 of 102
    pjmrt

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    Cute.... wrong, but cute. :D He hung out with anyone who listened to Him and followed Him. There were 12 men who He called to ministry with Him and who gave up everything to follow Him. And as Bogy knows, its the ex-prostitute, along with women who had many other problems and who were delivered from them, who hung out with Him and His disciples. But oh, sorry, I keep forgetting the teaching of the liberals that all this is just natural, and people can't really help themselves so surely none of this is really a problem... :sure: I guess its just a mistake in translation that Jesus said (repeated) "and sin no more" after forgiving the sin of a repentent sinner, including prostitutes.
     
  12. Mar 3, 2006 #92 of 102
    billpa

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    Again...
    Everybody sins.
    Everybody.
    It's just that gays are considered worse sinners by many of you far right wing Christians.
    Of course that's your right, but it's quite silly.
     
  13. Mar 3, 2006 #93 of 102
    AcuraCL

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    Personally I like the stuff Jesus said about it being easier for a camel to get through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to get into heaven.

    Whatdya figure W's net worth is? (monetarily, not as a human)

    Whatdya figure his chances are?

    Or was there a statute of limitations on that observation that Jesus made?
     
  14. Mar 3, 2006 #94 of 102
    Bogy

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    I'm sure that pjmrt can explain how Jesus actually meant that rich conservatives would find it much easier to enter heaven than poor liberals.
     
  15. Mar 4, 2006 #95 of 102
    Fifty Caliber

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    Especially if they contribute to Pat Racist's 700 Club.
     
  16. Mar 5, 2006 #96 of 102
    pjmrt

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    Well you get 2 points for getting the first part right - yes all have sinned. Again, us "religous right" are not saying homosexuals are worse than any other sin. We're just disputing with those who want to say "its not sin" and keep homosexuals a slave to their sin. The first part of redemption is acknowledging the sin and repentance (turn around and not go that way any more). People don't tend to form activist groups to promote adultry as a healthy lifestyle, so it doesn't get the press. Activists DO from groups to promote homosexuality as a healthy lifestyle - and when they do, they fly in the face of the truth. People who support them are helping keep them trapped in their sin, rather than helping them to face something they already sence in their being is sin (or at least sensed at one time if they have sence learned to bury the feeling). Why do you suppose there is so much emotion in threads like these? Do I get myself all worked up in a lather because some arab people somewhere think I'm an infidel? No, because I know the truth - and it has set me free. But mention anyone saying they consider homosexual sex a sin - and oh my put up the storm shutters. It touches a nerve, because deep down people trapped in the homosexual lifestyle know inside its wrong. They are just not ready to admit it - and when others come along and tell them they "are born that way", "cannot change", "its a perfectly good alternative lifestyle",.. the bandaid works as long as they don't hear the truth. When they hear the truth - it strikes the nerve deep inside which says "they're right", and the choice is to usually to work one's self up in a lather to dispute the claim.

    Again, homosexual sex is not worse than any other - and I don't know of anyone personally who believes that. But it is a sin non-the-less. Those who preach otherwise are doing homosexuals no good service. And I've sure the rev Bogy will come up with a good rewording of Paul writing to the church at Corinth, who said

    "Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived, neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor homosexuals, nor sodomites, nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners will inherit the kingdom of God. And such were some of you. But you were washed, but you were sanctified, but you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus and by the Spirit of our God." (1 Corinthians 6:9-11)

    Obviously its a sin, just like all the rest - one can keep it to death, or repent and live. Obviously it is something one can be forgiven of and delivered from - as Paul said, "such WERE (past tense) some of you".
     
  17. Mar 5, 2006 #97 of 102
    Bogy

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    The word you have underlined is better translated male prostitutes. No rewording, just the proper translation. As I said before, there is no word in the Bible which is directly translated "homosexual."
    This is the translation from the New Revised Standard Version:

    "9: Do you not know that wrongdoers will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived! Fornicators, idolaters, adulterers, male prostitutes, sodomites,
    10: thieves, the greedy, drunkards, revilers, robbers--none of these will inherit the kingdom of God."

    Note that I underlined greedy and drunkards. Covetous kind of lacks the punch in English that "greedy" does. How about transferring all that energy being devoted to attacks on gays to attacks on companies that are sending millions to hell by encouraging their greed? Not to mention the beer and liquor companies also sending their millions to hell?
     
  18. Mar 5, 2006 #98 of 102
    billpa

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    Really?
    You sure spend a lot of time on it.


    Yeah, except everyone, including all Christians, sin over and over again until the day they die. So asking a gay person to "not go that way any more" is a tall order since you and all others will get to continue to sin.



    Well if people who've cheated on their spouses were told they couldn't rent a house or join the military or re-marry then you probably WOULD see adulterous activist groups, but none of that stuff happens.



    No, they don't.
    Sure, you can find a handful of gays who've said they are now heterosexual, but the huge majority do NOT know it's wrong.
    It's like finding a scientist who believes in Intelligent Design...It's not impossible, but it's so rare as to be all but non-existant.
     
  19. Mar 12, 2006 #99 of 102
    Richard King

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    Back to the original topic...
    http://www.breitbart.com/news/2006/03/12/060312122104.pgrezzqi.html

     
  20. Fifty Caliber

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    Next thing you know Phelps will be advocating a helmet law for motorcyclists.
     
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