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Breaking News: EchoStar To Purchase Satellite from Cablevision

Discussion in 'General DISH™ Discussion' started by Bill R, Jan 20, 2005.

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  1. olgeezer

    olgeezer Guest

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    And the number of transponders used is a limited number, per location, by law
     
  2. James Long

    James Long Ready for Uplink! Staff Member Super Moderator DBSTalk Club

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    The transponder frequencies are limited. For example RainbowDBS/Voom holds a license to 11 transponder frequencies at 61.5 ... they cannot broadcast on other transponder frequencies on 61.5 or on transponder frequencies at other slots without gaining further authorization. (E*'s authorization for 29 frequencies at 110 does not allow them to use those 29 frequencies at 119, 61.5, or 148. They have separate authorizations for the 21 transponder frequencies at 119, 11 transponder frequencies at 61.5, and all 32 transponder frequencies at 148.)

    What RainbowDBS does with their 11 licensed transponder frequencies is up to them - as long as they don't interfere with other DBS licensees in the US or internationally. They can use them all ConUS or split them in to as many spots as possible. Each spot is driven by a transponder. In essence, Rainbow1 has over 100 transponders on Rainbow1 when operated in spotbeam mode ... shoehorned in on 11 frequencies.

    They have also designed the satellite to operate spot transponders on one of the "spare" frequencies on 61.5 (the 12th transponder capable of spot use) and also have the capablity of using the other "spare" transponder in ConUS mode.

    The transponder frequencies are limited by license - but the spot use on a licensed frequency is only limited by the fact that the signals still have to fall somewhere within the ConUS footprint.

    JL
     
  3. rocatman

    rocatman Icon

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    I am curious about your source for 100+ TPs on Rainbow-1. I had read on another website of questionable accuracy that Rainbow-1 only had 36 TPs on it. If there are 100+ TPs on Rainbow-1, Dish stole it from Voom at $200 million that includes the licenses and the uplink center. This would provide Dish with substantial capability to provide HD locals.
     
  4. Mike123abc

    Mike123abc Hall Of Fame/Supporter DBSTalk Gold Club

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    Rainbow-1 does not have a lot of transponders. If you go to the FCC and look at the merger documents like: http://gullfoss2.fcc.gov/prod/ecfs/retrieve.cgi?native_or_pdf=pdf&id_document=6513292881

    22 spots (but not clear how many TPs per spot) and 13 national transponders. Note in the document they wanted Echostar-3 for at least 3 years (so they could build/launch a new satellite) since Rainbow-1 could not do all the transponders at 61.5 by itself. This is probably similar to Echostar-7 & 8 with spot TPs (25 in E7 & E8) and some national TPs (16 in the case of E-7 & E8). Not enough to cover all 32 possible TPs.
     
  5. James Long

    James Long Ready for Uplink! Staff Member Super Moderator DBSTalk Club

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    I didn't do an exact count last night, but do remember that these are spot transponders, covering only a small circle within ConUS.
    The 22 spots have a total of 120 spot transponders (comparable to the 25 spot transponders). In addition, TP 23 can be used in 11 of those spots. 131 spot transponders plus ConUS transponders for all 11 licensed frequencies and the two "spare" transponders.

    That's what RainbowDBS has filed with the ITU.

    JL
     
  6. James Long

    James Long Ready for Uplink! Staff Member Super Moderator DBSTalk Club

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    I find it interesting that on pg 7, Cablevision states 30 TPs at 61.5. That would be their 11, E*'s 11, the spare 2, and 6 of SkyAngel's. They expected to assume E* lease of those channels (and E*'s obligation to SA).

    Cablevision certainly had high hopes for the slot. Better service than either E* or D* can do from a single location. :D

    JL
     
  7. rocatman

    rocatman Icon

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    This configuration would support the use of 2 - 3 TPs per spotbeam as a minimum depending on the spotbeam overlap and certainly more for spotbeams that only overlap 1 or 2 other spotbeams. What may limit the number of spotbeams used is power. Spotbeam TPs use much less power than CONUS TPs because their beam is focused on "small area" but Rainbow-1 is a Lockheed Martin A2100AX satellite. This a fair size satellite bus but it does not have the power capability of the Loral 1300 series satellite. As a side note, one would expect Echostar-11 to be a spotbeam satellite simply because it will be a Loral 1300 series.

    If Dish can not get FCC approval for the transfer of Voom frequency licenses, they should try to swap their 11 frequencies for the 11 of Voom' so they can use Rainbow-1 and its spotbeams. Dish would also pick up at least one useable frequency since Echostar-3 can only provide 10 of their 11 frequencies.
     
  8. James Long

    James Long Ready for Uplink! Staff Member Super Moderator DBSTalk Club

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    With all 120 lit they have 4 to 7 TPs per spot. Didn't say they were not crazy.

    Go back to post 82 of this thread for the details.

    JL
     
  9. rocatman

    rocatman Icon

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    I have to reply to this post but its been a long week and I want to stay somewhat civilized. Let's just say someone needs a reality pill.
     
  10. James Long

    James Long Ready for Uplink! Staff Member Super Moderator DBSTalk Club

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    Tee are double oh el

    Either the person is a liar or you are. It's a lie so it really doesn't matter.

    JL
     
  11. Bill R

    Bill R Hall Of Fame

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    I think your "source" may be confused. True, they are not selling ALL their transopnders but they are selling the ones that they have at 61.5 (and the satellite) to Echostar. See this article: Cablevision Chairman to Acquire VOOM Assets, http://www.worldscreen.com/newscurrent.php?filename=voom211.htm
     
  12. Mike123abc

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    I still have not seen exactly how many TPs Rainbow-1 can have operating at the same time. The ITU filing does not specify that all the TPs in each spot would be on at the same time. They have to allow for adjacent spot interference. They obviously cannot have the same TP frequencies used in every spot since that would cause interference.

    There are a lot of limits. One of them is the uplink frequency reuse. R1 gets around a lot of this by having the uplink in each spot. What is the power capacity of the satellite?

    The specs of E7 & E8 are fairly well shown of about 25 possible spots on at the same time. But, if you took all 15 spots and multiplied it by the 5 possible frequencies of each spot you would end up with it looking like they could do 75 TPs in spots and 16 CONUS, when in fact they can only do ~25 in spot and 16 in CONUS. I suspect R1 is similar, it may list 120 possible spot, but how many can it really do?
     
  13. rocatman

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    I suggest in the future that you do a little bit of research before you post something like this especially:

    "the son of the ceo of Voom was trying to sell Voom; when the ceo (dad) caught his son and stopped the process."

    The sale of some of Voom's assets to Dish/Echostar was announced three weeks ago with official news releases from both Cablevision/Voom and Dish/Echostar. There was also the news release today about Cablevision selling the rest of the Voom assets with reference to the deal with Dish/Echostar as noted in the link provided in a previous post. Just firing off a post like you did only hurts your credibility. Your "So, sorry guys for the bad news." just inflamed the situation even more because of your apparent smugness. I'll get off my soapbox now and back to the subject of the thread.
     
  14. JohnH

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    Well, a request for transfer of the satellite and frequencies was withdrawn at the FCC. I have not seen a new request. rocatman can you look for one?
     
  15. BFG

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    hmm, where did you dig that up at?
     
  16. James Long

    James Long Ready for Uplink! Staff Member Super Moderator DBSTalk Club

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    Apparently the delete button is working ... is an apology coming?
    Point by point:
    From some guy you were buying RG-6 from ... who SPOKE to Charles Dolan???
    The 8-K was posted on the Cablevision (Voom's owner) website on January 21st. A new 8-K was posted this evening. The first 8-K clearly defined the sale of Voom's only operating satellite, 11 DBS frequencies and a so new it hasn't been used uplink center in SD to E*. The second 8-K notes the letter of understanding announced late yesterday that Charles Dolan and others forming VoomHD will be buying the rest of Voom.
    That remains to be proven. VoomHD has until the 28th to find financing and get the definitive agreement from Cablevision. Voom is still on life support.
    The BOARD of Cablevision with Mr Dolan present voted to sell the three assets named above to E*. Not the son.
    The process has NOT been stopped. If anything, it was CONFIRMED in today's 8-K. The E* purchase will continue while VoomHD buys the rest of Voom DBS.
    No problem. Sometimes it is fun to indulge in fantasies. :D

    JL
     
  17. rocatman

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    I jump on the FCC site every weekday around lunch time for their Daily Business Digest which is usually the time they are posted. I have not seen anything new recently or I would post it right away. JL thought the Dish request was for the uplink center and that might have been the case. If it was for the uplink center, I could understand why it was withdrawn. The FCC could approve the uplink center transfer without approving the transfer of the DBS frequencies, not a good thing. If it was for the frequencies, perhaps Dish was made aware of Charles Dolan buying up the remaining Voom assets and making a go of it with Voom and wanted to revise their approach on the application. I believe the competition argument against the frequency transfers has been diminished if not eliminated but who knows with the politically whacky FCC. Even if the FCC does not approve the frequency transfers outright, I think Dish should try to work some frequency swap deal and keep Rainbow-1 with its spotbeams. As I stated previously, at $200 million, Dish stole Rainbow-1.
     
  18. James Long

    James Long Ready for Uplink! Staff Member Super Moderator DBSTalk Club

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    I have the Daily Digest emailed to me daily. The most recent notes on E* were in relation to several oral presentations they made. The proceeding numbers match written presentations made on Feb 4th. Those written presentations are identical documents mentioning the oral presentations.

    The subject: Digital LIL and E*'s desire NOT to carry full HD channels.
    Looks like they won, although I havn't read the details fully.

    E*'s withdrawal noted before was in a list of other EARTH STATION withdrawals. That's where the assumption comes from. Unfortunately the IB doesn't say much until an issue is over. It is easier to find decisions made than topics under consideration. (Unlike the MB.)

    JL
     
  19. JohnH

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  20. JohnH

    JohnH Hall Of Fame

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    Fixed the URLs. Must be after midnight. :D
     
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