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Brrrrriiiiip, what and where

35K views 252 replies 99 participants last post by  hasan 
#1 ·
This can be very annoying while you're trying to watch a program. They can vary from every once and awhile to being every few seconds during a show.

Thanks to BattleScott here is a sample: http://www.dbstalk.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=18074&d=1239640597

And to Ken S :

What is happening is the DirecTV MPEG-4 encoder is "dumping" and having to reset as it is transcoding the MPEG-2 to MPEG-4 at the uplink center.

This seems to happen to HD locals more than national channels.
If your locals are doing this, you can tune into the OTA feed and sometimes see it there too, but other times not see it. This doesn't mean the station isn't the cause/source. Their feed may have corrupted bits that don't affect the playback of the MPEG-2 stream, but these cause the MPEG-4 encoder to reset.
Sometimes it is the DirecTV encoder, which I've seen when several local stations are all doing this at the same time.

So this is the "what and where" but what can you do about it?

If it's with a local station, I found the best [quickest] thing to do is to call/email the station engineering about it. If they're responsive [some are and some haven't been], they will look into their end and work with the Network Broadcast Center at DirecTV.

If they're not responsive or this is with a national channel, then you will need to contact DirecTV, but you can't get directly to the broadcast center.
This means the CSR can "log a report" which will get the the center, but these don't seem to be acted on until there are many reports [which I really can't blame them with all the channels they're working with]. If they "can see it at the time" then they'll work on it, but since this problem comes and goes, they can monitor the feed and not see it [since it isn't happening at the time].

The next step I took was to email ellen.filipiak@directv.com and explain the problem I was having and the steps I'd done. I would recommend not emailing first, but calling and having it get logged a few times. Let their system try to resolve it, before escalating it to this level.

It took me a few email replies and phone calls, but I did have someone interested in resolving "my problem". One of the first steps was to have a service call to make sure there wasn't anything in my system that might be causing it. There wasn't and I knew it, but they needed to start somewhere and know it wasn't on my end. They asked me to have some recordings so I could show them exactly what it was when the came. They looked all over my system, watched the recordings and then called the broadcast center. The engineer had them hand the phone to me and explained what the problem was.

"The problem" wasn't fixed overnight, but my locals have been much improved and between a few emails to station and the broadcast center engineers, have seen the improvements from both the stations and at the DirecTV uplink.
 
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#52 ·
I started watching the Emmy Awards last nite and the audio was really bad. Fortunately I have an off-air antenna into my tv and watched the show that way. There were no issues with audio at all. Once again, I think D* needs to focus on correcting basic issues with their DVR first, before they tackle all the bells and whistles that probably a few people want and will use, and , the majority of DVR users care less about.
 
#53 ·
richiephx said:
I started watching the Emmy Awards last nite and the audio was really bad.
Same here. Especially with trick play.
I think D* needs to focus on correcting basic issues with their DVR first, before they tackle all the bells and whistles that probably a few people want and will use, and the majority of DVR users [couldn't] care less about.
Hear, hear! I've been saying that, but the D* fans are always ready with their standard denials.
 
#54 ·
Syzygy said:
It's everywhere now (0x034C), on many channels, much more frequently and with longer durations. Trick play (IR, Reverse) bring it out almost without fail on some channels.
I know you have "an issue" with all of the non-Tivo receivers, but this thread is about where this problem comes from, which has little to nothing to do with the receivers, as the problem comes from the source/uplink transcoder.
"Garbage in = garbage out" [which I'm sure you know].
I guess you'll just need to wait until there is a Tivo MPEG-4 receiver to see this.
 
#55 ·
veryoldschool said:
I know you have "an issue" with all of the non-Tivo receivers, but this thread is about where this problem comes from, which has little to nothing to do with the receivers, as the problem comes from the source/uplink transcoder...
Sure, the problem existed before, but it's a lot worse with 0x034C. It looks like you want to pretend that it's nothing new, or that it's not being made worse by the latest software update. Fine, keep on denying the facts, if that pleases you.
 
#56 ·
Syzygy said:
Sure, the problem existed before, but it's a lot worse with 0x034C. It looks like you want to pretend that it's nothing new, or that it's not being made worse by the latest software update. Fine, keep on denying the facts, if that pleases you.
I don't deny anything and "in fact" been chasing this for over a year. I've talked to the engineers at the stations and from DirecTV. I've had an engineering team out here, at my house, for this.
You seem to be so hard headed, that you miss where the problem is and will only "get it" when your beloved Tivo does it too, "but" I'm guessing you'll still blame DirecTV [which is sort of where this blame belongs now, though not with the receivers/software].
The MPEG-2 is transcoded on the fly into MPEG-4. This is the process that ends up with the brriiipp. "If the MPEG-2" is perfect, then the MPEG-4 doesn't have the problem. Now what everyone has wanted [and I think DirecTV too] is for the MPEG-4 encoders to be more tolerant of errors [missing/corrupted bits] in the MPEG-2 feed.

I have to equate this to those that blame the DVR for not working when the remote is defective. While it's true the DVR isn't working, the cause isn't the DVR.
 
#57 ·
i get this more with the channels that are not OTA. my question is, is directv even aware of this issue? do we know if this will be fixed anytime soon? it can get quite annoying.
 
#58 ·
rey_1178 said:
i get this more with the channels that are not OTA. my question is, is directv even aware of this issue? do we know if this will be fixed anytime soon? it can get quite annoying.
It can be very annoying [and why I started trying to get my locals fixed].
Locals are best dealt with by contacting your local station engineering department. National channels are a bit harder, as you need to call DirecTV. The CSR "at best" will forward an email to the broadcast center about it.
You can move up the CSR chain to the customer advocate group, and it will get [some] more attention.
 
#59 ·
veryoldschool said:
... I'm guessing you'll still blame DirecTV [which is sort of where this blame belongs now, though not with the receivers/software].

The MPEG-2 is transcoded on the fly into MPEG-4. This is the process that ends up with the brriiipp. If the MPEG-2 is perfect, then the MPEG-4 doesn't have the problem. Now what everyone has wanted [and I think DirecTV too] is for the MPEG-4 encoders to be more tolerant of errors [missing/corrupted bits] in the MPEG-2 feed...
Still you seem to be denying that the problem's a lot worse with 0x034C, disregarding the testimony from myself and others in this very thread.
 
#60 ·
Syzygy said:
Still you seem to be denying that the problem's a lot worse with 0x034C, disregarding the testimony from myself and others in this very thread.
"Yeah" because the software/hardware has made zero difference in the past year, "and" when you do find the resolution, it comes from either the DirecTV uplink or the broadcast station.
Keep looking in the wrong place and you'll never find the problem.
"As an example":
I've called DirecTV and had the problem corrected within 45 mins.
I've emailed the station and it took a bit longer, but they replied they'd found a bad cable was the cause.
Neither of these had anything to do with my receivers or software, nor were my receivers even reset during this time.
 
#61 ·
The software version has made a MAJOR difference for me. It has gotten progressively worse as the software has been updated. I have reported this multiple times (as have a couple others) in the CE forum. While I do not doubt the information you were given I highly doubt the fact that the software /receiver isn't partially to blame. I went from having ZERO-ZILCH-NADA issues for years to (over the last 3 to 4 months) having MAJOR issues. Everything has remained the same except for the weekly software updates. I have recorded the same programming at the same time from both satellite and OTA and when it occurred on D* channels it NEVER occurred on the same channel OTA (NYC market). The non-locals are worse. It's not a signal issue as all my TP's are well up in the 90's. I can go for days without a problem then suddenly have a day with problems on multiple channels.

There is obviously something else at play here and just because someone provided you with THEIR explanation does not mean they are infallible or may be missing something. They may be correct "as far as they know." If it were a transmission problem from the DirecTV uplink or the station that would mean every customer would see the same problem on the same shows. I have seen the issue reported by people here on shows that I had recorded and yet I don't see it on the same show. That would make no sense if it were an uplink issue or a station issue.

You are correct when you state "Keep looking in the wrong place and you'll never find the problem." That works for both sides of the issue.

veryoldschool said:
"Yeah" because the software/hardware has made zero difference in the past year, "and" when you do find the resolution, it comes from either the DirecTV uplink or the broadcast station.
Keep looking in the wrong place and you'll never find the problem.
 
#62 ·
TBlazer07 said:
The software version has made a MAJOR difference for me. It has gotten progressively worse as the software has been updated. I have reported this multiple times (as have a couple others) in the CE forum. While I do not doubt the information you were given I highly doubt the fact that the software /receiver isn't partially to blame. I went from having ZERO-ZILCH-NADA issues for years to (over the last 3 to 4 months) having MAJOR issues. Everything has remained the same except for the weekly software updates. I have recorded the same programming at the same time from both satellite and OTA and when it occurred on D* channels it NEVER occurred on the same channel OTA (NYC market). The non-locals are worse. It's not a signal issue as all my TP's are well up in the 90's. I can go for days without a problem then suddenly have a day with problems on multiple channels.

There is obviously something else at play here and just because someone provided you with THEIR explanation does not mean they are infallible or may be missing something. They may be correct "as far as they know." If it were a transmission problem from the DirecTV uplink or the station that would mean every customer would see the same problem on the same shows. I have seen the issue reported by people here on shows that I had recorded and yet I don't see it on the same show. That would make no sense if it were an uplink issue or a station issue.

You are correct when you state "Keep looking in the wrong place and you'll never find the problem." That works for both sides of the issue.
Some of the times I've had this, my OTA feed was fine & the same channel off the SAT had problems. Even in this case the problem can come from the broadcaster. MPEG-2 is more tolerant of these problems than MPEG-4 [and again it's the transcoding]. Without posting my resume, I'll say that this is a field I've worked in for many years. I even worked for the company that makes the MPEG-4 encoders. I also have a very low threshold for "BS". I've had lengthy discussions with engineering both from the broadcast center and the stations in my DMA. As skeptical as I am, they've explained it well enough to me and I've seen "the proof" of it, to agree with the explanation. I've also followed almost every thread/post on this topic and have yet to see anything point to anything else.
Your mileage can vary.
 
#63 ·
Forgetting OTA .... I've followed this (and the original thread that I think is gone) topic for months and when someone would mention a specific show on a NON-OTA channel where they have had the issue and if by chance I have recorded the identical show I would NEVER see the same problem at the same time or at all. If someone reports the problem with, for example, Rescue Me at 10PM and I have the same show WITHOUT the same problem in the same spot, then, in my opinion, it cannot possibly have to do with uplinks or everyone in the country would have the exact same problem at the exact same time. These are CONUS transponders and we all should see the same thing. Speaking for myself that has NEVER been the case. IMO there is a lot more to this issue then is being made public. The theory being put out can't logically be the only issue involved. There must be more to it.

veryoldschool said:
Some of the times I've had this, my OTA feed was fine & the same channel off the SAT had problems. Even in this case the problem can come from the broadcaster. MPEG-2 is more tolerant of these problems than MPEG-4 [and again it's the transcoding]. Without posting my resume, I'll say that this is a field I've worked in for many years. I even worked for the company that makes the MPEG-4 encoders. I also have a very low threshold for "BS". I've had lengthy discussions with engineering both from the broadcast center and the stations in my DMA. As skeptical as I am, they've explained it well enough to me and I've seen "the proof" of it, to agree with the explanation. I've also followed almost every thread/post on this topic and have yet to see anything point to anything else.
Your mileage can vary.
 
#64 ·
TBlazer07 said:
Forgetting OTA .... I've followed this (and the original thread that I think is gone) topic for months and when someone would mention a specific show on a NON-OTA channel where they have had the issue and if by chance I have recorded the identical show I would NEVER see the same problem at the same time or at all. If someone reports the problem with, for example, Rescue Me at 10PM and I have the same show WITHOUT the same problem in the same spot, then, in my opinion, it cannot possibly have to do with uplinks or everyone in the country would have the exact same problem at the exact same time. These are CONUS transponders and we all should see the same thing. Speaking for myself that has NEVER been the case. IMO there is a lot more to this issue then is being made public. The theory being put out can't logically be the only issue involved. There must be more to it.
You're in the NY DMA right? LA and NY are the only DMAs that could be considered "national" and even then only to those that have DNS. My DMA has been troublesome and why I put the time in to find/get [and keep getting] it resolved.
On the national channels that I've also watched/recorded, "for the most part" I've seen the exact thing at the same time, that others have reported. I also haven't seen an increase/decrease in the frequency due to any software release, on multiple models of receivers [running various releases].
For local problems, many have followed some of the steps listed in the first post and seen improvements.
"Now if someone" could demonstrate that one type of receiver displayed this while another didn't, then I would be one of the first to say it was "something else", but so far no one has.
Until there is anything to suggest otherwise, I'll stick to the "proven" cause and steps to resolve it.
 
#65 ·
I'm not interested in local channels ..... fugedaboutit. They add too many variables. We need to use national CONUS satellite channels. Then we need to make a sticky thread in the main forum (not here because this is TOTALLY in the wrong place - wasn't even aware this was a sub-forum and I've been around here for years) and have people post CHANNEL, DATE, as close as possible to TIME OF "incident" in specific shows. Then others can look at their recordings and confirm or deny whether they see the same thing.

We also need to display exactly what the issue is we are speaking of. There are people who consider any audio or video anomoly part of this issue. Example: Last night watching a SAT recording of the 2HR HOUSE premier on FOX 5 NY about 60 minutes into the show just BEFORE a commercial I had a Brrip lasting about 1 second followed by totally black screen with no sound for about 2 seconds.

I can state the following as it applies to my 3 HR20's:

A) I never had a single incidence of "Brrrip" on any channel, local, conus, national or whatever, until a specific software version in the "other forum" was released while others were constantly complaining about it BEFORE that timeframe.

B) It's gotten progressively WORSE on a WEEKLY BASIS up until about 8 weeks ago then has leveled off.

C) I had looked at shows that I have recorded that were the same shows others have complained about and have not seen the same problem on my recording.

veryoldschool said:
You're in the NY DMA right? LA and NY are the only DMAs that could be considered "national" and even then only to those that have DNS. My DMA has been troublesome and why I put the time in to find/get [and keep getting] it resolved.
On the national channels that I've also watched/recorded, "for the most part" I've seen the exact thing at the same time, that others have reported. I also haven't seen an increase/decrease in the frequency due to any software release, on multiple models of receivers [running various releases].
For local problems, many have followed some of the steps listed in the first post and seen improvements.
"Now if someone" could demonstrate that one type of receiver displayed this while another didn't, then I would be one of the first to say it was "something else", but so far no one has.
Until there is anything to suggest otherwise, I'll stick to the "proven" cause and steps to resolve it.
 
#66 ·
TBlazer07 said:
B) It's gotten progressively WORSE on a WEEKLY BASIS up until about 8 weeks ago then has leveled off.
I'm on your side, Blazer, but I must say that, for me, it got significantly worse (at least on OTA channels) at the same time that I received 0x034C, 8 days ago.

Coincidence? Maybe, but others heard what I heard, starting about the same time.
 
#67 ·
Syzygy said:
I'm on your side, Blazer, but I must say that, for me, it got significantly worse (at least on OTA channels) at the same time that I received 0x034C, 8 days ago.

Coincidence? Maybe, but others heard what I heard, starting about the same time.
"If you mean true over the air" channels, then whatever you have is completely different [that this thread] as OTA is MPEG-2 and doesn't go through the transcoding to MPEG-4.
Given the OTA can be picked up by other tuners, then you should be able to find/know whether there is a problem with the DirecTV receiver or whether it truly is the station that is the source.
 
#68 ·
veryoldschool said:
If you mean true over-the-air channels, then whatever you have is completely different [from this thread] as OTA is MPEG-2 and doesn't go through the transcoding to MPEG-4.
Given that OTA can be picked up by other tuners, then you should be able to find/know whether there is a problem with the DirecTV receiver or whether it truly is the station that is the source.
I can get some OTA channels via my antenna, but I rarely watch them that way because I'd have to do it live, with commercials, on my HR21. It can't record OTA stuff (although my HR10 can). In fact all of my Brrrrrpp observations have been on LiL stations via spot-beam satellite, MPEG-2 transcoded to MPEG-4.

It's hard for me to compare to the MPEG-2 source, because the event is long past by the time I hear it on a recording. But it just occurred to me that I still have the Emmy show, recorded in OTA MPEG-2 by the HR10 and not yet watched, and I remember hearing lots of Brrrrrpp sounds in a partial MPEG-4 recording of the same show made by my HR21 from spot-beam satellite. I'll report back.

P.S.
But I recall you said that small imperfections in the MPEG-2 source turn into those annoying Brrrrrpps because of less-than-perfect transcoding. So any report I can make won't go very far as proof, unless I hear those same very annoying sounds in MPEG-2 on the HR10 -- and that's unlikely.
 
#69 ·
Syzygy said:
I can get some OTA channels via my antenna, but I rarely watch them that way because I'd have to do it live, with commercials, on my HR21. It can't record OTA stuff (although my HR10 can). In fact all of my Brrrrrpp observations have been on LiL stations via spot-beam satellite, MPEG-2 transcoded to MPEG-4.

It's hard for me to compare to the MPEG-2 source, because the event is long past by the time I hear it on a recording. But it just occurred to me that I still have the Emmy show, recorded in OTA MPEG-2 by the HR10 and not yet watched, and I remember hearing lots of Brrrrrpp sounds in a partial MPEG-4 recording of the same show made by my HR21 from spot-beam satellite. I'll report back.

P.S.
But I recall you said that small imperfections in the MPEG-2 source turn into those annoying Brrrrrpps because of less-than-perfect transcoding. So any report I can make won't go very far as proof, unless I hear those same very annoying sounds in MPEG-2 on the HR10 -- and that's unlikely.
"I understand", as I've had to go through some hoops too.
"If you can", setup some dual recordings between your HR10 OTA and your MPEG-4 locals.
It does help, if you can compare the MPEG-2 to the MPEG-4, as this is one of the methods, I used to get DirecTV to look at their local uplink. "In the end" getting either the station or DirecTV to look into it has helped, since they both do work together [engineer to engineer].
"Sometimes" it is in the MPEG-2 feed and sometimes the MPEG-2 feed doesn't show it, "but" this is where DirecTV "leans on" [or works with] the station to resolve the problem. They're really the only ones that can monitor the stream and see where it comes from.
 
#71 ·
My HR21-200 has not had a brrrrrrp for months. The last SW update was June I think and was working great.
0x034C was pushed last Wednesday. Since then, every night, on various channels the brrrrrp is happening. The two hour "Hell's Kitchen" Tuesday night was hardly watchable. My wife went to the bedroom to watch on H20 without problem. The HR21-200 finally just locked up and rebooted itself, which I have never seen happen. Same issue after reboot. So, it has to be one of two things. The software or D* engineers making mods.
 
#72 ·
That's the whole problem with this issue. There are many different problems that people are using as examples for the issue we are discussing. I believe there is a you-tube video example in the first message of this thread. What you are describing sounds like a hard-disk error and not the "official brrip" issue as they don't (as far as I know) cause a reboot.

The brrip issue is kind of (sorry) a fart like sound usually followed by pixilization then (sometimes) a total audio/video blackout for a fraction of a second up to a few seconds.

For some reason (for me) it very often seems to be just prior to a commercial.

calphin said:
My HR21-200 has not had a brrrrrrp for months. The last SW update was June I think and was working great.
0x034C was pushed last Wednesday. Since then, every night, on various channels the brrrrrp is happening. The two hour "Hell's Kitchen" Tuesday night was hardly watchable. My wife went to the bedroom to watch on H20 without problem. The HR21-200 finally just locked up and rebooted itself, which I have never seen happen. Same issue after reboot. So, it has to be one of two things. The software or D* engineers making mods.
 
#73 ·
It helps to have the station engineering on "speed dial".
This morning [and a bit last night] my NBC station had a lot of briipps. I emailed them 2 hours ago asking if they were aware of it.
I haven't heard back from them, but just realized I also haven't heard the sound for a while either. :)
 
#76 ·
Have not seen the Brrrrp in a long time I used to always see this on FOX 29 out of Buffalo, NY mostly during 24, House, Terminator, and Dollhouse. This has been on recorded programs on an HR20-700. I've been recording Hell's Kitchen for weeks now with the occasional Brrrp but nothing to complain about. Well I recorded the 2 hour HOUSE premiere and it was back in a BIG WAY. From the start of the recording it was UNWATCHABLE. I really hope this gets cleared up before 24 premieres...
 
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