C.A.L.M (Commercial Advertisement Loudness Mitigation)

Discussion in 'Legislative and Regulatory Issues' started by Blurayfan, Dec 16, 2009.

Tags:
  1. Shades228

    Shades228 DaBears

    6,081
    46
    Mar 18, 2008
    http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/nation/la-na-loud-commercials-20101204,0,7086074.story

    I don't see it really helping anything.
     
  2. trh

    trh This Space for Sale

    7,147
    631
    Nov 2, 2007
    NE FL
    Probably need to give it a chance first. The bill hasn't been passed yet and advertisers have 1 year to implement it.
     
  3. Shades228

    Shades228 DaBears

    6,081
    46
    Mar 18, 2008
    It doesn't change the issue of commercial volume though. It just says they can't be higher than what TV shows are allowed to be at. TV shows use different sound ranges. Commercials go full blast so again I really don't see it doing anything. Reducing volume 1-5 db will not really do much.
     
  4. trh

    trh This Space for Sale

    7,147
    631
    Nov 2, 2007
    NE FL
    Lets hope the regulations the FCC has to develop as a result of this bill take that into account.
     
  5. kenglish

    kenglish Icon

    975
    2
    Oct 2, 2004
    Salt Lake...
    Trouble is, there's no way to take in to account how "loud" the program was preceding the commercial, or how "loud" it will be after the commercial, or how the the mood of the program relates to the commercial.
    So, stations will likely just boost the levels of the program to max, matching the commercials. That takes away all the dynamic range of the program itself.

    There are already methods in place to substantially regulate the "volume", using Dolby Digital, by matching levels of normal dialogue. Trouble is, everybody's tastes are different, and "if you don't want to hear the commercial, then it's always TOO LOUD".
     
  6. SayWhat?

    SayWhat? Know Nothing

    6,262
    136
    Jun 6, 2009
    How about this? When they go to commercial, your set auto-mutes and those who want to hear would have to hit the mute button to un-mute and hear the ads. :)
     
  7. shedberg

    shedberg Icon

    533
    0
    Jan 20, 2007
    I have sent emails to the program manager at local stations with loud commercials and they have always responded to my emails and the problem usually goes away the day after my email.
     
  8. MysteryMan

    MysteryMan Well-Known Member DBSTalk Club

    10,127
    1,177
    May 17, 2010
    USA
    By the time congress makes this happen we'll all be tone deaf.
     
  9. hdtvfan0001

    hdtvfan0001 Well-Known Member

    32,456
    258
    Jul 28, 2004
    !rolling

    What? Huh? Did you say something? :lol:

    The fact that the industry would require an act of Congress to address this long-time major annoyance says plenty about just how responsive they are to the American public.

    Hallelujah.
     
  10. kenglish

    kenglish Icon

    975
    2
    Oct 2, 2004
    Salt Lake...
    The "industry" has been working on an answer to this for years. The answer has always been, "crank the dynamic range out of the program, so it matches the commercial". Congress always thinks their answer is "simple". But, it just means that the programs will sound bad.
    There's still no way to legislate taste, or loudness.
     
  11. hdtvfan0001

    hdtvfan0001 Well-Known Member

    32,456
    258
    Jul 28, 2004
    Hmmm....that's interesting. I guess having a DB sound range standard wouldn't work then. ;)
     
  12. kenglish

    kenglish Icon

    975
    2
    Oct 2, 2004
    Salt Lake...
    Nope. It has to match the (perceived) sound level of the programming that precedes, and that follows, the announcement.
    That's why no one has ever been able to come up with a real solution.
    It's all too subjective.

    Dolby had the right idea, with Dialogue Normalization, but some people aren't even satisfied with that.
     
  13. hdtvfan0001

    hdtvfan0001 Well-Known Member

    32,456
    258
    Jul 28, 2004
    Wondering why a simple signal can't be sent to a receiver, especially those with noise max limits built in already, to restrict the volume.

    I'm still convinced that if the right limited range of DB for commercials was set universally, the problem could be controlled.
     
  14. SayWhat?

    SayWhat? Know Nothing

    6,262
    136
    Jun 6, 2009
    I still can't figure out why TBS (for example) is at a different volume level than A&E (for example). Why can't Dish, Direct, Comcast, et al equalize the volume levels on all channels delivered to their subscribers. They receive them all, retransmit them, turn them on or off, insert their own ads, etc., so why can't they adjust the levels?
     
  15. kenglish

    kenglish Icon

    975
    2
    Oct 2, 2004
    Salt Lake...
    That's sort of what Dolby Digital does. The normal level of dialogue (an average voice...not shouting, not whispering) is set as a standard. Levels are held to a point that matches that....a standard voice always will come out at the same level, every time, on every channel.

    The "magic" is, that standard level can be TRANSMITTED at different levels, to allow for headroom in the system, allowing for more headroom during, say, an explosion or whatever. The DD bitstream carries metadata that pulls the volume back to the correct level right in your receiver.
    The second part of the "magic' is, the audio is sent with full dynamic range, but the producer can specify how to restrict the dynamics at your receiver, and the bitstream carries a control voltage to your receiver that pulls up the quiet sounds, and lowers the high volume sounds, all centered on the standard "normal voice level" dialogue. So, when you listen in "Midnight Mode" (or, whatever your receiver maker calls it), the dynamic range is reduced. And, if just listening to stereo or mono from a converter box, it can be restricted even more. The guy with the big HT system still hears full dynamic range, but you can set your own system for limited dynamics (still artistically-controlled by the producers), and it all comes from one transmitted digital audio stream.
    They also tell your receiver how to downmix the 5.1 (or, whatever) to stereo or mono, under the direction of the audio producer.

    Dolby also has methods that we use to measure "Equivalent Loudness", and that is what really needs to match. A quiet scene, going to a normal commercial, is always going to be jarring, and a commercial leading in to a loud scene is also going to stand out. Both sound "wrong", but are really being sent at the same "volume" level, as far as any measurements (besides "Loudness Equivalence") are concerned.
     
  16. HIPAR

    HIPAR Icon

    749
    0
    May 15, 2005
    You turn up the volume so you can hear soft dialog in the presence of background sounds and music and get blasted when the commercial comes on.

    --- CHAS
     
  17. Drucifer

    Drucifer Well-Known Member

    9,488
    248
    Feb 12, 2009
    NY Hudson...
    My mother has pass. She was one that truly hated loud commercials. So I would say, they're a few decades LATE!
     
  18. kenglish

    kenglish Icon

    975
    2
    Oct 2, 2004
    Salt Lake...
    That ain't how it's supposed to be, for sure.
    Using the Dolby Digital DialNorm correctly should limit it. If watching at a time when too much dynamic range would be a problem, use "Midnight Mode" (as some manufacturers call it), to limit the huge swings.
     
  19. SayWhat?

    SayWhat? Know Nothing

    6,262
    136
    Jun 6, 2009
    Remains to be seen how well this will (or won't) work.

    Now if we could just get a stop to the tampering with closing credits so we could read the cast and guest star names, the overlapping of program starts and ends and incessant bugs and promos that interfere with the programs themselves.
     
  20. Blurayfan

    Blurayfan Hall Of Fame

    1,758
    8
    Nov 16, 2005
    Illinois
    Status of bill changed. The 111th Congress (House and Senate) passed the bill, passed version PDF added to first post.
     

Share This Page

spam firewall