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California Gay Marriage weirdness

Discussion in 'The OT' started by Danny R, Sep 7, 2005.

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  1. Sep 9, 2005 #61 of 232
    Capmeister

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    Then you don't understand the proper scope of government. The base purpose of a proper, moral government is to keep people free from the initation of physical coercion, or valid threat thereof. We want gov't to protect our liberty to do as we wish so long as our actions don't infringe upon the rights of others.

    Now please, tell me how existence of anyone's marriage, straight, gay, whatever, infringes on your liberty. Tell me how.
     
  2. Sep 9, 2005 #62 of 232
    RichW

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    The protection provided by a marriage license should be obvious. Essentially, it notarizes several contracts between the two people without having to execute each of those contracts individually.
     
  3. Sep 9, 2005 #63 of 232
    Bogy

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    This is a clarification to my post #61. What people such as pjmrt don't seem to understand is that there is no word "homosexuality" in the Bible. What we have are are actions which are condemned. Such as the attempted rape in Sodom. Nowhere in the Bible, at least not in the Hebrew or Greek, is there a passage that is so clear as to say that sex between two consenting, committed adults of the same sex is condemned.
     
  4. Sep 9, 2005 #64 of 232
    Geronimo

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    I would say no. But it certainly was illegal in every state until recent times. I know of no recent prosecutions but I beleive that it iss till illegal in some.
     
  5. Sep 9, 2005 #65 of 232
    RichW

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    Heck, the Greeks not only didn't condemn homosexuality, they probably invented most of teh positions!

    I still require an apology and retraction from pjmrt.
     
  6. Sep 9, 2005 #66 of 232
    Geronimo

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    How are you being forced to do that?
     
  7. Sep 9, 2005 #67 of 232
    Geronimo

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    How does DISh network fit in there? Is there a biblical prohibition against cable? ia m not mocking you or your father BTW. Just curious as to how it fits in.
     
  8. Sep 9, 2005 #68 of 232
    skidog

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    I suppose he could have just said his dad has satellite tv and wants another room installed but won't accept an appointment on the Sabbath. :)
     
  9. Sep 9, 2005 #69 of 232
    Bogy

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    Cap said his dad had a Dish for milk and a Dish for Meat. Obviously you can't do that with cable. :)

    Sorry Cap, not meant to be disrespectful.
     
  10. Sep 9, 2005 #70 of 232
    ntexasdude

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    From what I remember from Western Civ classes in college that's sad but true.
     
  11. Sep 9, 2005 #71 of 232
    Capmeister

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    Jewish law prohibits not only you from working on the sabbath, but any of your servents. This would be considered having someone work for you (since it is for your benefit, and by your pay) on the sabbath, which is forbidden. (Within reason--Sabbath is not observed if doing any of the prohibited activities are needed to save someone's life. In fact, under Jewish law one is REQUIRED to break sabbath to save someone's life. Interesting, no?)
     
  12. Sep 9, 2005 #72 of 232
    Capmeister

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    LOL. I'm an atheist myself now, and only celebrate certain things with my father out of respect for him. For instance, I attend the Pesah (Passover) seder with him (a sad event, now that my mother is gone, as this was HER holiday to shine). I sat shiva for my mother (at his house, not mine) out of respect to him, and because I promised her on her death bed that I would. I even said Kaddish. I don't believe in an after-life, but I believe that to show respect to my father in a way that doesn't compromise my own values is of value to me.

    Also, my father would laugh. ;-) He has an excellent sense of humor, and is, in fact, a very intelligent man. He knows his faith is just that--a matter of faith. It gives him comfort, it is his tradition, and it is right--for him.
     
  13. Sep 9, 2005 #73 of 232
    Capmeister

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    Heh. I see what I said now... my saying he has two sets of dishes (for eating) was to express how religious he was. It was seperate from the discussion of his SAT Dish, which is for TV.
     
  14. Sep 9, 2005 #74 of 232
    socceteer

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    Actually I am not sure you would accept any other answer that you do not like. When you are partial to an opinion everything else is not valid to you.

    Fact is that without religion involved, there are may changes in our society that we would have to be made.! As simple as introducing someone as Mr. and Mr, the fact that the children do not have a mother or father, the fact that insurance companies would have to make changes to their plans, etc

    Lets get real. gay marriages are not as simple as just saying it. This type of marriages will required many changes of which many will affect society.

    My big one is the fact that a child will not have a mother or father and trust me in school kids will notice that. as much as you may think that it is ridiculous, it will happen. You would have to teach kids that a family is not a father a mother and kids....! WHY...? because you want to get married. Live together.

    We do not need to be forced into your believes, ours have been fine for many thousands of years. The fact is that there are many gay people who live together and some have kids, they are doing just fine without a marriage, and they are not demanding for society to change.
     
  15. Sep 9, 2005 #75 of 232
    Geronimo

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    Again I just don't see how DISH network is involved. Are you saying that subscribing to the service (which is active on the sabbath and so are the employees) even if you don't watch television etc. I do understand the separate commetn about two sets of dishes. I would expect that. I just thought that the reference to DISH network and him wanting a room installed were somewhat incogrous but was sure there wasa logical explanation.




    again no disspect is intended here.
     
  16. Sep 9, 2005 #76 of 232
    bobsupra

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    I think the issue was sat installation at his house on the Sabbath. Work is prohibited.
     
  17. Sep 9, 2005 #77 of 232
    Geronimo

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    If so that makes sense. Merely wonderign about the interpretation here.
     
  18. Sep 9, 2005 #78 of 232
    Capmeister

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    Dish network is only involved in that my dad wouldn't allow someone to work in his home on the Sabbath. ;-)
     
  19. Sep 9, 2005 #79 of 232
    Slamminc11

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    If you had read the rest of my post then you would have seen that I was talking about the christian faith. they have "chosen" to choose and pick which "laws" in the bible will will continue to fallow and which they will not. The think about pork, the sabbath, blended fibers, etc, etc, etc. some of which promised death, but then they find some that they think they should continue to observe. Christians can not say they believe that every word in the bible is true and not observe all the "laws".

    I haven't seen an apology for Rich as of yet either. Imagine that.
     
  20. Sep 9, 2005 #80 of 232
    RichW

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    Let me explain why an apology, actually a retraction, is of vital importance to me. I am pretty thick skinned and don't care if people call me a leftie or a communist or any other appelation that isn't true. I'll just shrug it off. But I work in a children's hospital, am a councilor for a Masonic Youth Group, and a volunteer mentor for kids in the public schools. All three of these organizations would sanction me if someone inferred that I was involved in child porn. I would be suspended from my job pending an investigation, I would immediately be relieved of any Masonic Youth association, and would probably be asked not to be a mentor. All this would happen just on the speculation of one person. With respect to child porn one is really guilty before being proven innocent and even then, such as in the case of Mason Youth groups, I would never be able to hold any position there, even when totally proven innocent. Since dbstalk can be googled by anyone and I proudly carry my hospital's logo as my avatar, it would be pretty easy for someone to take the false accusation to heart and knowing who I am, make trouble for me.

    Thus my only recourse in such a situation would be to seek legal remedy against the false accuser, since part of my avocational interests would be gone from my life. I hope I won't have to escalate to that point, but a line was already crossed. I hope the mods will see fit to require a retraction from the poster if he doesn't do it on his own.
     
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