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Can someone please 'splain this to me?

Discussion in 'The OT' started by Halfsek, Jun 30, 2005.

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  1. Bogy

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    You guys will take offense over anything. You want it in context. What do you want, a mention of someone else who was born in 1890 who is still alive? Oh yeah, there isn't anybody. Wounded Knee is a historical event. Just because it is one of the more infamous actions of the U.S. military does not mean it should never be mentioned. I don't think you would complain so much if the event would have been an atrocity committed by Muslims. You just can't admit anything bad was ever done by white men.
     
  2. Richard King

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    Simply calling it the "Battle of Wounded Knee" would have worked better, but this guy had an agenda, so he didn't do that.
     
  3. jonstad

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    Again, you guys are being way too sensitive about this. In my youth(not that I'm old:D) I remember a similar story(might have even been Reuters) about some woman in Uzbekistan or somewhere who was 115-20 or some astounding figure. As context, it was noted that she had been a little girl during the Crimean War(1853-1856). Now the Crimean was probably one of the most despicable, bloody and ruthless wars in history. The given rationale, a dispute over who was going to be allowed to be the keeper of the key to the Church of the Nativity in the old city of Jerusalem.:icon_dumm:nono: http://mars.acnet.wnec.edu/~grempel/courses/russia/lectures/19crimeanwar.html

    Uzbekistan, being at the time of the report part of the Soviet Union, formerly the Tzar's Russia, and Russia being a participant in the war, I guess there is some "six degrees of separation" connection. But at the time(1850's) Uzbekistan was NOT part of Russia and consisted mostly of nomadic goat herders living in tents. And I recall a specific disclaimer that the old gal had no recollection of the war.

    So? Was the author here making a dig at the participants in the Crimean War? Was he trying to make some "statement" about the morality of the war? NO! He was placing this woman's life in historical context. She was ALIVE during the Crimean War. She didn't participate, apparently didn't know there WAS a war at the time, and likely wasn't even aware there was a place called Crimea. Hell, I doubt most of us would know except for its only claim to fame, a war named after it!

    I will concede all of the charges of subliminal subterfuge by Reuters if someone can come up with a more significant historical event that happened in 1890.
     
  4. jonstad

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    Richard, it wasn't a "battle". It was a massacre!

    Innocent men, women and children were slaughterd, mowed down with machine guns from the surrounding heights of their camp as they scrambled for cover. Calling it a "battle" is an insult to anyone who ever served in an actual battle. What would be your reaction if al Jazeera started refering to 9/11 as "the Battle of New York"?

    For the most part I'm proud to be an American. The "Battle of Wounded Knee" is not part of that pride however, so I won't call it what it ain't. I don't believe the MASSACRE at Wounded Knee was an intentional act. It appears poorly diciplined troops panicked, and maybe because they had been taught to view Indians as sub-human, once they started it became a turkey shoot. Perhaps what's most shameful though is how the American government and public reacted to it. They celebrated it. There was probably even some dancing in the streets. And of course we awarded lots of medals.

    Now that I think of it, I can understand how you would prefer if nobody brings it up, EVER!
     
  5. Capmeister

    Capmeister Large Hairless ApeCutting Edge: ECHELON '08

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    ... Thank you for making me feel old.
     
  6. Capmeister

    Capmeister Large Hairless ApeCutting Edge: ECHELON '08

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    I must agree. While I hold no guilt over such acts (I was not alive, it wasn't my doing, etc. etc.,) let us remember that the rights we hold so dear, and I dare say we'd extend to everyone in this country today, were NOT afforded the aboriginal Americans whom were slaughtered first by disease and later by Western guns.

    While it's silly to say the aboriginal Americans (not Native Americans, since I am one of those) were all peaceful and didn't do their own terrible acts--they did-- the history of this nation is filled with inhumanity and injustice where they are concerned.

    As recently as the latter half of the last century, the American government was mistreating descendants of aboriginal Americans, forcing their children into schools where their own languages wouldn't be taught, tearing families apart, and so on.

    That has little to do with the Reuter's article, and I agree there was no reason to use it in the context of that story, but let's not paint Wounded Knee as a battle when it WAS massacre. These people's lives were destroyed by a racist, rights-infringing government and when they attempted to do what YOU would have done in their position, they were murdered for their troubles.
     
  7. Geronimo

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    IMHO it is time to move on. What happened to native Americans (the name the group involved commonly uses) was horrible. But that was overa hundrd years ago. I respectfully submit that I think that some of you misinterpreted the author's intent here. I see no evidence that that the author intended to draw a paralell. In fact, I think he was trying to point to an act in the year of the lady's birth that shows how DIFFERENT the times are.
     
  8. Capmeister

    Capmeister Large Hairless ApeCutting Edge: ECHELON '08

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    Last I checked, *I* was a native American. :)
     
  9. Richard King

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    You are no longer?
     
  10. Capmeister

    Capmeister Large Hairless ApeCutting Edge: ECHELON '08

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    No longer than whom? :D
     
  11. JBKing

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    Isn't it officially called "the Battle at Wounded Knee"?

    That's not the point. I don't think anyone is here to justify the US actions during this "battle". What we are saying is that there was no need to bring this up when discussing the world's oldest woman! The two events, her birth, and the "battle", simply occurred in the same time frame. If you read this article, the mentioning of the "battle" hits you like a ton of bricks, as in "What the heck did that have to be in there for?"

    I wouldn't be surprised if there is a "Reuters approved list of significant events - What you need to refer to in your time references" :rolleyes:

    I was hesitant to say this, because I'm not comparing Wounded Knee to anything else, or trying to trivialize that "battle" but imagine this Reuters story from the year 2150.......

    I would think Journalism 101 would teach you that if you are writing a human interest story, you should make any time references at least halfway related to the main point of your story. Otherwise, you may leave the reader out in left field. :shrug:

    Funny, we see the usual liberal defense of one of their own! :D
     
  12. Geronimo

    Geronimo Native American Potentate DBSTalk Gold Club

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    I think that Journalism 101 would teach you to look fora compelling angle. And, in the case ofa 100+ year old person that angle might very well be all the turmoil they have seen in their life or how different the world they were born into is than todays.

    As gor you hypothetical headline. Well it might be the case one day. Aftera ll it is either that or the Prince Song. And if so I will buy you a root beer. I promise. Just look me up.
     
  13. skidog

    skidog Godfather

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    Why not, she was born a year before the first gasoline powered automobile was introduced to America.
     
  14. Geronimo

    Geronimo Native American Potentate DBSTalk Gold Club

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    That would have been good too. It would have been better if it happened the same year. But yeah they could have said it was 13 years before the first World Seies was played or 61 years after Geronimo was born. But they chose an event that is fairly well known that occured in the same year. Again, no doubt to show how diferent the world she was born into is than the one she lives in today.
     
  15. jonstad

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    Why not the reporter being too lazy and imaginative to do anything but Google 1890 and look for a significant event that year?:shrug: That's what I did and here's the list.
    OK, what's YOUR pick? The United Mine Workers being founded? Idaho becomes the 43rd state? Wyoming the 44th? The first Army-Navy game?

    C'mon! It was a pretty slow news year. And you'll note this number one result for Googling "1890" has no mention of "battle" in regards Wounded Knee.

    Isn't it getting just a little bit spooky when the mere mention of an historical event potentially embarrassing to the US is jumped on as an unAmerican conspiracy, a news organization with "an agenda"!?!:eek:
     
  16. Richard King

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    May 12 - The first ever official County Championship match begins. Yorkshire beat Gloucestershire by eight wickets at Bristol. George Ulyett scores the first century in the competition.
     
  17. Geronimo

    Geronimo Native American Potentate DBSTalk Gold Club

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    I know that those who referred to itas a battle did not mean it quite this way but even the US Army stopped calling what happened at Wounded knee a battle long ago and in Native American circles calling it anything short of a massacre can provokea pretty heated response. . It was an unfortunate incident in American history.

    In any event my side did not so so well at Wounded Knee. But how about we just declare the Battle of the Reuters Article to be a draw and go home.

    BTW I think it is remarkable that anyone born in 1890 made it to the 21st century.
     
  18. JBKing

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    :lol:
     
  19. jonstad

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    "Geez! I agree too.":D

    That was my pick first pick also, although a bit of a sticky wicket!;)
     
  20. Nick

    Nick Retired, part-time PITA DBSTalk Club

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    The...
    My pick of the most significant event of 1890:
    Obviously, a harbinger of really important things to come. :rolleyes:
     
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