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Can the HR34 record a whole transponder?

Discussion in 'DIRECTV HD DVR/Receiver Discussion' started by qcarm, Jan 10, 2012.

  1. David Ortiz

    David Ortiz Save the Clock Tower!!

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    I used to record my HD locals from Comcast with a MyHD tuner card. It supported clear QAM and I remember two of the big 4 networks were subchannels of the same main channel. It meant I could record two channels at once, which was pretty cool.

    What dish seems to be doing (or trying to do) with PrimeTime Anytime seems to be a cool idea.

    "Can the HR34 record multiple channels from the same transponder with a single tuner?" would be a better question. The dish Hopper, since it is only a 3 tuner box, needs a little help and PTAT is just that. The HR34 can record all 5 networks if necessary, without any extra magic.

    I haven't had a chance to compare HD quality, but it may be that dish's HD quality is such that recording sizes are smaller, meaning less data for the four channels combined, which would make it easier to capture the data with a single tuner.
     
  2. P Smith

    P Smith Mr. FixAnything

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    There is serial or parallel TS bus(es) (sometime it named as MPEG TS bus) what carry whole mux ie transponder [for the sat companies] and it's coming to main chip (7400/1/2/10/20), some chips has dual input TS (another hint - PIP HW feature). If you willing going to real implementation, there are dish's DVR schematics out there (for real DP501).
    [Told yeah, I'm for facts ;) and my bad English will not dismiss these :)]
     
  3. LameLefty

    LameLefty I used to be a rocket scientist

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    Middle...
    Does anyone else think that sometimes the babbling is simply done to get the last word in? Since no one can understand the post, it's kind of hard to respond or refute. :rolleyes:
     
  4. Go Beavs

    Go Beavs Hall Of Fame

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    Just to add a data point...

    All 7 Portland, OR HD locals come from D10/12 on tpn 21. Four at 1080i and 3 at 720p. There is an eighth in test, also on tpn 21 at 720p.

    So at the moment, 8 HD channels on one transponder! :eek2:
     
  5. P Smith

    P Smith Mr. FixAnything

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    Adding to that more techno: if DTV could go up to upper limit of current demod chipset [45 Msps] theoretically speaking, it would add 50%; but the step would require to raise power requirement for uplink stations (not that hard to implement) and satellite's transponders - that's where the gold value selected: 30 MSps, for all Ka transponders, for all Ka sats: D-1x and SW-1/2.

    As we see from above, the parameters: bandwidth, modulation, SR, FEC, etc creating enough to transmit 7-8 channels from sats to Earth.
     
  6. Scott Kocourek

    Scott Kocourek Well-Known Member

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    Guys, please stay on topic and don't discuss each other.

    :backtotop

    Thank You.
     
  7. inkahauts

    inkahauts Well-Known Member

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    SW was supposed to be adjustable from what I recall, meaning they could have one TP be as wide as two TPs on say d10.

    Also, Dish is saying only the big four networks right? Do we know for sure that they aren't going to be pushing these shows like DTV does with some movies? If so, they could drop them in overnight to everyone easily, or heck, even during the day and then make them available when the time is right.

    Here would be my question. We know that an HR34 gets an entire tp worth of data at once, but the question is, how does it handle that data, and what is it capable of doing with that data? Can the unit route all the data to the hard drive, and then when it is being pulled from the hard drive be separated, instead of being separated before it goes to the hard drive. Who knows???? I think that is what VOS is saying, right? Or am I way off? :D
     
  8. P Smith

    P Smith Mr. FixAnything

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    That what I did answer to VOS and you missed.
     
  9. inkahauts

    inkahauts Well-Known Member

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    Sorry, you may have tried to answer that, but I didn't see it anywhere in your posts that I could understand.
     
  10. P Smith

    P Smith Mr. FixAnything

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    He didn't complain so far.
    Sorry, I'm still working on my ESL ... Pick just technical info, don't bother with my grammar.
     
  11. veryoldschool

    veryoldschool Lifetime Achiever Staff Member Super Moderator DBSTalk Club

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    Which isn't a sign of agreement or understanding, but merely [yawn] not worth commenting, but since you're looking for one: eight HD channels on one TP sure sounds like more than 30 Mb/s
     
  12. P Smith

    P Smith Mr. FixAnything

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    OK, I don't want make 'sounds' but facts - what sat/tpn you're interesting and I'll provide real numbers to you?

    But, please don't make it look messy - I told about Symbol Rate limit for all Ka tpns - 30 Msps; and I told you get a few real numbers xxx Mbps for different combinations of modulation+FEC from old famous Sixto thread. So far you got it wrong and it's not my bad English was the reason.

    [Actually it become too messy - you're posting your merely thoughts without any real facts/parameters in correct English, while I'm (with my bad English) responding real technical data -you ignoring it just because don't want to look in Sixto thread, can't accept simple numbers ... sad case; if you don't want to get into it - just say it and we will finish. But as I told you - you got many errors in your posts, factual errors]
     
  13. veryoldschool

    veryoldschool Lifetime Achiever Staff Member Super Moderator DBSTalk Club

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    "Really" the only thing I wanted from you was the actual bandwidth being used of the TPs, which you've shown in the past, but have ignored and shifted instead to "a bunch of stuff", that doesn't mean much.
    Somewhere I think I did find a post from Sixto with Spaceway's being 60+ MHz, yesterday.
    Bandwidth in MHz is what's licensed, while modulation schemes/methods can vary the bit rates.
     
  14. P Smith

    P Smith Mr. FixAnything

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    I don't have facts about SW-1/2 tpn's bandwidth. If you can - provide a link to reliable data (by manufacturer preferably). I don't want to repeat what many times been posted here about variable bandwidth of the flexible platform.
    But if you come back to matter of the sub-discussion you will get from Sixto same numbers about PERTINENT BITRATES 30-40 Mbps of SW-1/2 transponders.
    If you want THE number PRECISELY - tell me what particular TP you wish to know - I'll check it. [How many times I would ask you same question ? Duh !]

    Perhaps it would easy to comprehend - bandwidth is not pertinent , but relevant for the hard-coded Symbol Rate (perhaps it underutilized SW-1/2 wide tpns) - that is my answer to your first point in the thread: "First, the transponder has a much wider bandwidth." DOESN'T MATTER - TS bitrate is defined by SR/FEC/Modulation parameters. You brought the irrelevant 'wider' point to the discussion -

    HR34 or ANY other DTV DVR COULD collect whole mux of ANY transponders. Period. Change FW and that dish PTA will bite the dust.
     
  15. P Smith

    P Smith Mr. FixAnything

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    Sixto could mention the centering of SW-1/2 tpns: 62.5 MHz.
    To show bandwidth you or him must present spectrum pictures or manufacturer's data.
     
  16. P Smith

    P Smith Mr. FixAnything

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    I want to throw monkey wrench to that nice 62.5 MHZ centering: last months added/activated a few SW-1/2 tpns with a freq 19850.67 MHz. Before it was nice and clean:
    TP##
    [TABLE]freq | R| L
    19741.67| 1 |2
    19804.17 |3| 4
    19866.67 |5 |6[/TABLE]
     
  17. veryoldschool

    veryoldschool Lifetime Achiever Staff Member Super Moderator DBSTalk Club

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    I think we both know there is spacing between the TPs, so the 62.5 centering isn't the actual usable bandwidth or what's being used, but going back to the tuner in the receiver, it's bandwidth does need to be wide enough to capture the whole TP being used.
     
  18. P Smith

    P Smith Mr. FixAnything

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    - so what's its value ?

    I don't see any problem with that - all DTV receivers(modern type) working fine with 'wider' SW-1/2 tpns.
    Back to record whole transponder - the 'wideness' is irrelevant for the case - all Ka tpn's streams/muxes from different transponders are fit into 30-40 Mbps bitrate.

    Are we clear now ?

    Finishing the thread - to answer the OP question: yes, with modified FW.
     
  19. veryoldschool

    veryoldschool Lifetime Achiever Staff Member Super Moderator DBSTalk Club

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    So 30 Mb/s has now become 40 Mb/s, but the bandwidth used, in MHz is relevant, as the receiver's tuner does need to have enough bandwidth to receive it, since after all, this is an RF signal.
     
  20. P Smith

    P Smith Mr. FixAnything

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    Seems to me you just bickering ... Deliberately mixing SR (symbol rates) and BitRates ... Sad thing it show a) bad taste of discussion b) misunderstanding the parameters c) unwilling to accept something news (I know how aging affecting, so you are not alone) ...

    Back to real facts about GB/s on a drive of DTV's DVR:
    - first , the data is taken very easy for those who has external drive and Windows;
    - borrow it for short time (stop your DVR for the time)
    - connect it to Windows PC by USB or eSATA (it's nice to have a couple TT BlacX docks ;)
    - download/install any trial version of UFS Explorer
    - run it, select second partition (15 GB)
    - navigate to /viewer/segments folder - you will see all your recordings as folders with names like
    Rcrd-02-13-2010-1700-00-8547-ch501-min65535-src2.mpg
    - it has a date [02/13/2010], time [17:00] in military format, ch####; that would be enough to calculate (if you need a name of the show - use all the values and find it in Playlist or look into /mw_data folder for similar name "Rcrd-02-13-2010-1700-00-8547-ch501-min65535-src2.umd.dmd" - there is enough text strings to read) our discussed rates
    - oh, inside of that folder you will find precise time count - check [16 MB chunk] file's timestamps

    So, what we see for the particular movie: "17 Again" on HBO, ch501, 2hr - 7.365 GB of stream.
    What is come to 3.7 GB/h. Good number.
    Next: KQED, ch9 (local) 1h30m
    /viewer/segments/Rcrd-11-05-2009-0200-00-11-ch9-min65535-src2.mpg
    10.535 GB/1.5h = 7.02 GB/h
    Other:REEL, ch238
    /viewer/segments/Rcrd-04-11-2011-2000-00-2227-ch238-min65535-src2.mpg
    0,990 GB /1 hr = ~1 GB/h


    Well, let me correct my errors:
    DTV recordings as files on a drive: ~1 GB/h for SD channels and ~4 GB/h for HD MPEG-4 and ~7 GB/h for LiL channels.

    [Somehow my memory misplaced/reverted the 1:4 SD/HD ratio... I guess that file sizes VOD offline mutipass compression created such impression from past experience]
     

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