Cancelled after Years and Years

Discussion in 'DIRECTV General Discussion' started by ratoren, Sep 11, 2019.

  1. Sep 17, 2019 #81 of 121
    SledgeHammer

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    * Traditional subscriber base absolutely dwarfs streaming subscriber base
    * As we've discussed ad nauseum lol, ymmv on cost savings. I'd need 3 streaming services to get all my channels plus would need to remove my Cox data cap ($50/mo). That would cost CONSIDERABLY more then what I'm paying DirecTV Preferred Xtra + HR54 + 1TB data cap. Someone with 16 TVs and no data caps would obviously save money.
    * Some channels on streaming have restrictions like CBS forces you to watch ads after a day or two
    * How do you get OTA?
    * You really think Disney+ and Apple+ or whatever they're calling it will remain that low? Disney has an advantage in that they own the content, Apple+ surely doesn't. Dunno if you work in IT or not, but you're under estimating the cost of infrastructure, or completely ignoring it required to power streaming. Disney has already spent over ONE BILLION standing up the service. They have to recoup that money somehow. Let's see... how could they do that? Hey, I got an idea... why don't they raise the rates? :D.

    Just to give you an idea of costs, we have a few chinsy apps running in Azure (with a steep corp discount) and "zero traffic" and it costs $6000 a month just for my "resource group" for a few little apps just sitting around gathering dust tbh.

    Also, it's widely expected for more content owners to break off... NBC is doing it with Peacock+.

    Yet another service you'll need to subscribe to... when the smoke clears you'll probably need like 10 or more lol.
     
    Last edited: Sep 17, 2019
  2. Sep 17, 2019 #82 of 121
    espaeth

    espaeth AllStar

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    Most of the apps will stay logged in indefinitely (Youtube, Youtube TV, Netflix, Hulu, etc), but the apps that require re-authorization (FSGO, NBC Sports, ESPN, etc) seem to only need a re-auth every month or two.

    Depending on your service and platform, there are better options. Apple TV, for instance, lets you do single sign on with providers like Sling or Vue. (Unfortunately not supported by Youtube TV at this time) For that, once you sign the Apple TV itself into a service like PS Vue, the apps automatically authorize against that service when you launch them.

    Most boxes (without an SSD upgrade) are pretty slow on DirecTV? The HR44 and clients will drop numbers when entering them on the remote on occasion, scrolling the guide can be painful (necessary for things like Center Ice where the HD channels are 7xx-1, not 7xx) , and anything in the setup screen on the clients is like pulling teeth. Even getting to the menu to adjust the resolution settings takes a great deal of patience, which really sucked when the clients had the bug where they kept dropping down to 480p.

    If you're doing actual OTA, then this is a non-issue. The common suggestion people will throw out is to use a Tivo for OTA, which works pretty good but you still have to change inputs and you're locked into watching just on the Tivo devices.

    If you're consolidating onto a platform like Apple TV or Roku, that opens up options like using a HDHomerun tuner and pairing it with any of the hardware or software DVR solutions. I run a self-built NAS box, so I'm running Channels DVR in a FreeBSD jail, but that solution won't necessarily be the best for everyone. Plex DVR is another option on that front.

    For more packaged solutions, you have things like Tablo that act as a central DVR server and all apps running on your streaming box to get access to the recorded content, including automatic commercial skip. If you're in the Amazon ecosystem, you have the option of using Recast to capture your local channel content.

    If you just care about watching live OTA stuff, you can get solutions like AirTV that will integrate directly in the SlingTV app, so you get one common interface for all of your streaming plus OTA content on that service.

    Honestly, people who can get functional service with an antenna are in a great position, because most of the DVR restrictions on services like Vue and YTTV are tied to local channels. If you offload those channels to a local DVR solution, you can avoid being locked into VOD content (heck, you can get automatic commercial skip on a few platforms), and you get to save bandwidth on anything you play on your local network.
     
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  3. Sep 17, 2019 #83 of 121
    SledgeHammer

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    When I was doing free trials on my TV apps, yes, I didn't have to "re-enter a password", those are saved by the app, but when the app was started up, it still took 1 or 2 seconds to load the app and "sign in" as part of that process. No intervention on my part, just a few seconds to get to the home screen.

    I used to have an HR24, and I'll agree it was slow as, well, you know... as part of my last negotiation, I said I must have a free upgrade to the HR54, I couldn't take the slowness of the HR24 and they comped me the HR54. Can't speak on the clients since I didn't use them, but the HR54 itself is fast.

    Yes. Another box. Another input switch. Another remote, etc.

    If I could take an external streaming device that was fast, had AC and/or AX wifi and a 1Gbps ethernet port and could integrate OTA seamlessly, that would be ideal, but it would still be a hassle remembering which channel is where. If they had a device that could seamlessly unify all the apps, that would be a game changer.

    Even if streaming delivered a *perfect* (for me) device, until it is significantly cheaper, no point. Whether its cheaper for a person or not, as we said depends on the number of TVs, the channels you need, whether you have a data cap, etc.

    In my case, based on my current DirecTV bill, I wouldn't even begin looking at streaming unless I could get EVERYTHING for like $30 or $40. Sorry, but with a $50/mo fee to remove my data cap on Cox, streaming is a very, very, very hard sell to me. Especially when my DirecTV bill gets like 40% off. It was $52/mo for Preferred Xtra + HR54 which is untouchable by streaming. One of the promos fell off and its $69.99 this month. Still untouchable by streaming. When the rest of the promo falls off this month, its going to $82. Then I'll call retention to see about getting it put back on. At the very least, streaming would cost me $70/mo plus possibly getting my data cap removed for $50/mo = $120. Non starter for my situation at this point.
     
  4. Sep 17, 2019 #84 of 121
    Hdhead

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    You stay logged in to all your apps when using Roku, no re-authorizations. The Roku Ultra also has an SD card slot (you supply card) that allows all the apps to be stored locally so access is instantaneous. On my HR-24s every button push was a crap shoot if it would respond. Never could call up channel changes with numbers because it would timeout before all the numbers were accepted. Went to upgrade they wanted a 2 year contract extension, even though I had the protection plan which I thought offered free upgrades without contract extension. Boy was I wrong. In the end I felt taken advantage of and abused as a thank you for my 24 years of loyalty.
     
  5. Sep 17, 2019 #85 of 121
    espaeth

    espaeth AllStar

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    I feel like this is one of the biggest arguments against re-negotiating anything with ATT/DIRECTV (or Dish, or a cable provider) right now. The pay TV landscape is changing too rapidly to commit to up to $480 in escape penalties if you need to do something different in the next 2 years. This article was recently discussed where ATT has said they expect to lose more customers as they aggressively renegotiate contracts.

    With streaming, switching services just means installing another app. If a provider gets into a dispute, you can buy your way around that situation instantly by signing up with another service.

    Just look at the situation right now with FOX Sports Networks (now Sinclair) and Dish/Sling. Dish subscribers are stuck paying ETFs if they want to get their RSN back. Sling subscribers are a click away from a different service.

    Even if you can negotiate with ATT/DIRECTV to get your pricing down, the lock-in might be a killer if suddenly the satellite packages start looking like the ATT TV NOW PLUS and MAX packages, with their significant gaps in channel offerings.
     
  6. Sep 17, 2019 #86 of 121
    SledgeHammer

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    I fully agree that the HR24 is junk. There is a whole thread about putting an SSD in it to make it fast, but I'd just go to the HR54.

    2 yrs is for a tech install, it's only 1 yr for a self install (I have a legacy dish, so I opted for a SWM8 that I could install in the attic myself). One other thing I did was I negotiated the HR54 upgrade as part of my loyalty deal. I had a promo on the account and said it was ending in 3 months, so I'm not going to sign a 1 yr contract and pay full price for 9 months lol. So they threw an overlapping promo on there, that's how I got it down so low.
     
  7. Sep 17, 2019 #87 of 121
    SledgeHammer

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    I've seen about 3 popups on my TV saying streaming services are dropping support for my TV (its a 2016). DirecTV isn't dropping support for TVs lol. That's definitely a strike against streaming. They aren't too big on keeping backwards compatibility. I may have also read that some of the older streaming devices were also dropped. But to be fair, it is easier to replace a $99 Roku vs. a $3000 TV.
     
  8. Sep 17, 2019 #88 of 121
    bobcnn

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    I have tried Playstation Vue on a new Roku, an Apple TV, and an Amazon Fire Stick, and YouTube TV on Roku, and Apple TV (the Amazon Fire app is said to be coming soon). I found the Amazon Fire Stick much quicker in changing channels, and skipping commercials. For example I recorded some NFL games, and with the Directv DVR, I would watch a play, and then hit the 30 skip, and be ready for the next play. On Roku and Apple TV, when I skipped ahead 30 seconds, it would take 10 seconds or so for it to skip and play (which makes a 30 second skip kind of useless). But on the Amazon Fire, it jumped 30 seconds in just about the same speed as the DVR does.
     
  9. Sep 17, 2019 #89 of 121
    lparsons21

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    Yep, the apps on these Smart TVs are nice but updating them or even keeping them working isn’t something to plan on. The better streaming boxes are kept up to date and offer longer app support than do the TVs and when they finally don’t, replacement is so much cheaper.


    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro
     
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  10. Sep 17, 2019 #90 of 121
    Hdhead

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    Told them I would install an HR54 myself but they said that was not possible, hence 2 year contract. They lost a big fish in me with my $220 monthly bill all due to their outdated costumer billing policies.
     
  11. Sep 17, 2019 #91 of 121
    NashGuy

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    This will change in time. The future belongs to companies that OWN content. Charter, Cox, Verizon, etc. don't own any. Watch and see.

    AT&T TV offers the same channel packages as DirecTV, so that immediately invalidates your argument. I expect the default set of packages on both services to change but I also expect that they'll continue to largely mirror each other in that regard. Beyond that, I expect other (skinnier) streaming services such as YouTube TV and Hulu Live will expand the number of channels that they offer, either in their core package or through add-on packs. (In fact, Hulu Live already offers one such pack.) At the same time, many less-popular cable networks will wither away and die in the next few years because they weren't able to negotiate their inclusion in the most popular base-line packages.

    As for that $50 charge to remove your data cap, yep, that's one of the ways that broadband providers make it potentially more expensive to use competing video services than their own. If such policies don't get struck down by new laws in the future, I expect you'll simply see broadband operators like Cox partnering with third-party streaming services as "preferred providers" that get zero-rated against your data cap.

    That's not true on AT&T TV or AT&T TV Now. And there's no reason why such restrictions can't or won't come to the cloud DVRs offered by traditional TV providers, such as Comcast, in the future. You keep wanting to think that "streaming" is this separate thing from everything else. It's not. That's a false distinction. The lines will increasingly blur going forward.

    Um, with an antenna. I don't know what you're getting at.

    Of course they'll increase rates over time, as the competitive market situation allows.

    But you seem unable to understand the clear trend of what is happening here: the future of video content distribution is from the content owner directly to the customer, cutting out the cable-bundle-middleman. Do you honestly think that, come 2025, the majority of new video content will even be available through a cable channel bundle? Don't you understand that the cable bundle is a shrinking island while more and more stuff (including the most desirable content) is exclusive to this or that streaming service?

    OK. And when the smoke clears, you'll be subscribing to a bundle of ad-stuffed crap channels that carry only C-grade content that no one much cares about because the rest of the world will have moved on to streaming.
     
  12. Sep 17, 2019 #92 of 121
    NashGuy

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    When the Plus and Max packages are finalized in a few weeks/months, they'll have those channel gaps filled in (with the missing channels either added to those packages or available via optional add-on Extra Packs). And that's when Plus and Max will become the only options available for new subscribers on both AT&T TV and DirecTV.

    Until then, Plus and Max are just hanging around as weird over-priced options at the bottom of the list during the sign-up process for both services. They already exist in the ordering system. Now it's just a matter of adding a few missing channels and assigning them their future lower ongoing prices.
     
  13. Sep 17, 2019 #93 of 121
    lparsons21

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    NashGuy,
    While I think the pricing on ATT’s upcoming streaming will have to come down there is no indication from ATT that they plan on doing it.
    I think at full launch they will be just the wrong package at the wrong time with the wrong price. Then, and only then, will we see ATT do something about it.


    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro
     
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  14. Sep 17, 2019 #94 of 121
    SledgeHammer

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    I do remember I had trouble getting one through the CSRs even though it was noted in my account that it was supposed to be free. I ended up getting one for free through Tech Support. But since you left, I guess its a moot point. Just a note that different groups can do different stuff. Like neither tech support or the CSRs have access to the bottomless pit of credits. Only retention does.
     
  15. Sep 17, 2019 #95 of 121
    SledgeHammer

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    As our good friend Mark once said, the death of cable/sat has been greatly exaggerated. Some traditional will definitely move to IP based delivery though.

    Say what? I remember the last time I saw the packages, they were missing quite a few of the popular channels.

    Hasn't worked yet and I don't expect it will. The crappy channels are additional revenue and the folks that own the crappy channels also own the non crappy channels. You want a non crappy channel? Tough noogies, you gotta buy my crappy channel too.

    You think they'll come out with a law making data caps illegal? Bwahahhaa…. yeah, good luck with that.

    Does any streaming device support OTA integration the way DirecTV & Dish do?

    Sorry, I disagree with you. And you're flat out wrong. You think anybody in their right mind will say I don't want my show on CBS proper? I want it exclusively on streaming? Bwahhaaha… you know who says that? The producers of crappy shows that can't get on a network.

    Now if the day ever comes where streaming dwarfs traditional, then I'll agree with you. Pass around the "oregano" if you think that's coming in a "few years". Our best guide of streaming right now is Netflix and they've leveled off in the US.

    Yup. Let me know when History, Discovery, Science and all those other channels move to streaming only. Next week, right?

    A trend I DO see however is that streaming is becoming more and more fragmented as everybody and their mom spins up a service. What is YOUR breaking point? How many services do you have now, 3, maybe 4? Would you still be so high on streaming if you needed 6? 8? 20?

    You know... since your argument is that the content owners will cut out the middle man... why wouldn't you think at some point you'll need 20 services and that your bill will be as high as it now?

    Don't get me wrong... yes, people have moved to streaming. Duh... you're making it sound like DirecTV and Cox, etc. are going out of business by the end of the year, when in fact, streaming is still quite niche down here on planet earth.

    Reality check:

    Hulu = 2M on the live TV product (28M total)
    Sling = 2.4M
    PlayStation = 800K
    Philio = 100K
    YouTube = 1M

    By comparison:

    AT&T = ~23M
    Spectrum = ~26M
    Comcast = ~22M

    At this point Hulu Live, Sling, PlayStation, YouTube and Philio aren't even in the game. They're at home eating Cheetos and getting fat on the couch watching others play the game waiting to file for bankruptcy as the ultra low teaser prices prove to be unsustainable over the long term.
     
    Last edited: Sep 18, 2019
  16. Sep 18, 2019 #96 of 121
    slice1900

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    I assume you meant 2.8 million? There's no way Hulu has 28 million subscribers to their 'live TV' product.
     
  17. Sep 18, 2019 #97 of 121
    Hdhead

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    It is those types of nonsensical games that I am now free from. By the way SledgeHammer, you remind me of the incandescent light bulb:p. But they all eventually burn out.
     
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  18. Sep 18, 2019 #98 of 121
    SledgeHammer

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    28M is their current total sub count. Hulu Live TV has a piddly 2M. Netflix and Hulu proper wouldn't really be considered a competitor to traditional. They fall more into the YASS! category.
     
  19. Sep 18, 2019 #99 of 121
    Rich

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    LOL!

    Rich
     
  20. NashGuy

    NashGuy Active Member

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    You may be right. They may roll out AT&T TV nationwide with a set of packages and prices that aren't competitive with YouTube TV and Hulu with Live TV. But then, over the course of 2020, as the service fails to get much traction, they'll be forced to sweeten the value proposition for consumers one way or another. It's either that or simply watch their entire cable TV business melt away as customers defect from DirecTV while AT&T TV fails to attract much of anyone. But then that doesn't at all match up with the repeated statements that AT&T's CEO has made about their plans for AT&T TV, does it? He's said they'll they'll really lean into it, that it will be their "workhorse," that it will result in a turnaround in their overall cable TV subscriber numbers in 2020. This indicates to me that they see AT&T TV (in conjunction with HBO Max) as their only real plan to make the cable TV business work for them in the 2020s. They'll do what they must do in order to make it work or they'll just decide to abandon the business, making what they can off of the DirecTV ship until it sinks.

    (BTW, I expect we'll see YouTube TV bump up their price a bit more in 2020 but likely also add a few important missing channels like A&E, History and Hallmark to better compete against Hulu Live and YouTube TV.)

    If AT&T TV hits the market overpriced relative to the competition, the best way to correct it, IMO, would be to simply lower the service's regular prices. But instead, we could see them go with their old bag of tricks: lower first-year promo pricing and/or hundreds of dollars in Visa gift cards when you sign the up-front contract. In fact, it looks like they've already begun doing the Visa gift card thing for new sign-ups to AT&T TV in the pilot cities. That offer wasn't there on ATT.com when the service first rolled out on 8/19, but a few weeks later, they had added hundreds in gift cards. Which is a clear sign that AT&T does, in fact, realize that they're going to have to make the service price-competitive with a new emerging class of cable TV services that, like AT&T TV, also stream over the internet.

    AT&T management has said that part of the point of this pilot market roll-out for AT&T TV is to see how the market reacts to it so that they can tweak and improve it before the nationwide roll-out. We'll see what that results in.

    But I really don't think they ever had the intention of rolling out AT&T TV nationwide in 4Q19 with the existing default set of packages (Entertainment, Choice, Xtra, etc.). I think, rather, that the company was running 9-12 months late in getting AT&T TV out the door to consumers, so they were itching to finally deploy it *somewhere*. Except the company still hadn't finished renegotiating those pesky carriage contracts that would let them offer the packages and pricing they really want for the service. So they rolled it out to the pilot markets with the tech pretty much ready but the business side still shaping up. And that's where things stand now.
     

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