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Chances D* will "allow" non-SWM/hardwired-Ethernet MRV?

Discussion in 'DIRECTV HD DVR/Receiver Discussion' started by jaguar325, Mar 16, 2010.

  1. jaguar325

    jaguar325 Legend

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    I was warned about the upcoming DECA deployment but went ahead and put the time into running Cat 6 to enable MRV across my house. A couple years ago, I did the same sort of thing by running dual RG6 runs to my remaining single-feed locations even though SWM was "coming". I did this partly out of stubbornness (can't stand not to be able to do something I know is possible) and partly because some of the things that are "coming soon" arrive a lot later than expected. Worst case, I get some "free" MRV capability for a while -- it's working very well for me as-is.

    My question to the insiders is; what do you think are the odds that D* is going to force everyone into a SWM/DECA setup to maintain MRV once it has gone GA? I am one of the folks who has no real need for either now and am not particularly excited about having to change. It's hard for me to believe D* would say; "no, we won't take your money (assuming MRV carries a fee) if you don't do it with SWM/DECA". In the past, they've been pretty good about maintaining functionality for people who don't have the latest and, for me, if it means not getting tech support - I don't care. Most companies who's devices hang off a network don't tend to be able to provide much help with networking problems anyway. The folks on this site have been much more helpful.

    Thanks for your comments/insights... I am not "trying to start something", just looking to see what others think.

    -Big K
     
  2. Beerstalker

    Beerstalker Hall Of Fame

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    I really don't see them taking it away. I think DECA and the H24/HR24 will be how they install for new customers at first, and then they will start offering upgrades to existing customers that want it. I don't see them taking something away from people that they are already using. If they weren't going to allow MRV over our home network I don't think it would have ever been included in the national release. I think they are going to have a hard enough time telling people right now "yeah it was free for a while but now you're going to have to pay a monthly fee to use it." I can't imagine the backlash they could get if they added "oh, and you're going to have to pay us to come and change a bunch of stuff out for it to continue working too".

    To me that would be about like them suddenly telling everyone that they have to be on SWM in order to have HD service. Customers with HD service already would not be happy if it was suddenly turned off until D* could find the time to send someone out and switch their system over to SWM so they could get HD back.
     
  3. BattleZone

    BattleZone Hall Of Fame

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    As I've been saying all along:

    - The vast, VAST majority of DirecTV subscribers currently have NO networking ability, and NEED DECA for any of these features to work.

    - As other threads have pointed out, DECA will almost certainly have performance advantages that people will have to see to believe.

    - BUT... it is very unlikely that DirecTV won't allow folks with existing Ethernet solutions to continue using them. But DirecTV will only provide phone and field support for DECA networking, so if you're using Ethernet, you're on your own, and "please don't complain about performance issues."
     
  4. dsw2112

    dsw2112 Always Searching

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    I think you're going to be upset about this one. On the other hand I can see them allowing use of your network with a "don't complain to us" policy...
     
  5. dennisj00

    dennisj00 Hall Of Fame

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    That's fine. Where do I sign the 'no support' waiver?
     
  6. jaguar325

    jaguar325 Legend

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    I am OK with everything you said... not expecting much from them on network support anyway.

    Can you elaborate on the performance improvement from DECA? I am running a gigabit LAN with more speed than their NIC can currently use - performance seems fine to me. Is DECA going to get around the 100mbps limit of the existing NICs?

    Thanks,

    -Big K
     
  7. Beerstalker

    Beerstalker Hall Of Fame

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    Oh, I know they are planning on charging for it and I am not happy. I would probably drop it, but I think my fiance will complain if I do so I'm not sure.

    I was just saying I think they are already going to have a lot of people upset because of them giving it away for free for a while and then turning around and taking it away and making people pay for it. People are never happy when they have to start paying for something that used to be free.

    I think they will have a huge backlash if they tell people that have to pay to use it, and they have to pay to upgrade their system in order to even be able to use it (why fix something that isn't broken).

    Now for people that are having issues I can understand D* not supporting it, or providing minimal support. Pretty much just like Comcast does for their internet. They will give you support to make sure your modem is up and running and a computer connected directly to it works, but if you try to get them to help you set up your wireless router they will usually tell you no and you have to call your router's support line. I can see D* telling people stuff like restarting network services, rebooting receivers and routers, and if that doesn't fix it they will have to look elsewhere for help.
     
  8. dpeters11

    dpeters11 Hall Of Fame

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    Most of the thoughts are in terms of QoS, the boxes being separated from other devices on the network, and not having to worry about collision detection.
     
  9. Doug Brott

    Doug Brott Lifetime Achiever DBSTalk Club

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    I think that the following is true:

    • You can use your home network for MRV, but technical support will not be available
    • DECA or Hx24 with SWiM will be the preferred installation and eligible for technical support
    • somewhere around $3/month to enable MRV - could be higher, but I don't think so.
     
  10. djrobx

    djrobx Godfather

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    I would find all of this acceptable. Keeping my fingers crossed. :)
     
  11. Doug Brott

    Doug Brott Lifetime Achiever DBSTalk Club

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    I think it will be ok to loosen your digits. ;)
     
  12. beer_geek

    beer_geek Legend

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    Performance advantages?? Like what?

    DirecTV has a difficult enough time making a stand alone HDDVR respond to the remote. I can't see how their networking solution will be faster than hardwired ethernet.
     
  13. BattleZone

    BattleZone Hall Of Fame

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    And that's why I said "you'd need to see it to believe it."

    I'm a techy guy and have Gb Ethernet at home, and have for a couple of years. I installed everything myself and checked all of the runs with a highend meter to validate those runs. And my network's layout is nearly ideal: all home-runs to a single switch so that communication with internal devices is direct. Even among the people with home Ethernet hardwired networks, not many can say that. Needless to say, my home network runs great.

    BUT... Ethernet by its very design has some issues with real-time applications, and given that DirecTV's equipment doesn't do any substantial buffering, that's a problem. DECA (which is MoCA on different frequencies, btw) has QoS and some other differences that are specifically designed to improve the performance of real-time applications like video.

    From the folks who have used DECA, and compared with their own networks, DECA networking shows smoother playback, more responsive trickplay, and overall a nearly seamless experience, even better than an "ideal" Ethernet network. And, let's be real: how many people are going to have anything CLOSE to an ideal home network? Nearly zero.

    Most folks have some combo of wired and WiFi or even power-line adapters and who knows what kind of other issues. And while they may not notice the problems downloading OnDemand content, or attribute problems to their WiFi when using DirecTV2PC on a laptop, end-user expectations are going to be MUCH higher, and tolerence for "glitches" much lower, when they are watching their TVs. People are going to expect 100% perfection at all times, because "I'm *paying* for this." DECA can deliver that nearly every time. Relying on folk's cobbled-together home networking to deliver the same experience is an epic fail waiting to happen.

    Sure, there are a few folks like me, who might have a home network that is nearly as good as DECA, but we're a miniscule fraction of DirecTV's subscriber base. They needed a solution that would be able to give ALL users an excellent user experience, and by all indications, DECA is delivering.
     
  14. Doug Brott

    Doug Brott Lifetime Achiever DBSTalk Club

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    The good news is that home networking will be allowed .. You will still have to pay a monthly fee if you want to use MRV, though. Beyond that ..

    DECA/MoCA is the right solution here. As BattleZone pointed out, 'Ethernet by its very design has some issues with real-time applications,' however, that doesn't mean it won't work at all. If you are happy with your solution, you will be able to use it. DECA is optimized for video streaming and will be the best solution. Gigabit networking is a great general purpose solution, but it is not the best solution for this problem.

    You will not be forced to change, though, so for that you can be happy :)
     
  15. mdavej

    mdavej Hall Of Fame

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    Thanks for the update, Doug. That's not just good news, it's great news.
     
  16. RAD

    RAD Well-Known Member

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    Guess I'm going to have to disagree with this statement since I have DECA and do not see any difference when using MRV between STB's connected that way and one's connected via ethernet. I have gig only between two switches, everything else is only 100Mbps and due to how the house was wired (as in not enough) I'm splitting the single cable to share it for data and voice. While I have a central switch that all the rooms connect to those rooms also have switches in them so any MRV session is transversing three switches. So nowhere near as optimal as you but it works, works fine and as I said, I don't see any difference between the STB's connected that way and the DECA connected devices.

    That said, DECA will be the way to go for the folks that don't have any networking installed, which will be the majority of their customers. Even some folks that think they have a good network will benefit from DECA. It also allows installers to be able to provide networking as part of the installs without having to string additional cabling and DirecTV CSR's to be able to provide a level of support they couldn't with customer supplied networking.
     
  17. RAD

    RAD Well-Known Member

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    One word, YEA!
     
  18. WestDC

    WestDC Well-Known Member

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    The big clue here is the "opt in" page for MRV- Once stroked if you have a home network your receiver tells on you :) so the billing will be added - how it is connected and spported for those that have no home network will be to upgrade to DECA or start will a new Deca install.

    Either way D* gets a montly fee from everyone with the opt in selected, just no support for a home PC network as the work force can't handle that.
     
  19. Doug Brott

    Doug Brott Lifetime Achiever DBSTalk Club

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    I'm not exactly sure how the transition will take place from Beta MRV (free) to Final MRV (pay). I'd think that everyone will be turned off at some point and that you'd have to re-opt in (website? remote?) since you will now be buying a service rather than trying it.

    I'd be very, very, very surprised if DIRECTV just turned it on automatically and made you unsub it.
     
  20. joed32

    joed32 Hall Of Fame

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    Very good news Doug. I think DECA is the future and I hope they will upgrade to SWM and DECA for a good price. If they don't then I'm happy with what I have now.
     

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