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Charlie Brown Christmas show at center of church vs. state fight

Discussion in 'The OT' started by fluffybear, Nov 25, 2012.

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  1. Hoosier205

    Hoosier205 Active Member

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    Public schools funded by tax dollars. Not parents. Not television stations. Very different animals. If you want your children to be taught religious lessons you can do so at home, at your church, or you can choose to send them to a private religious school. Teach them creationism rather than evolution while you're at it,
     
  2. fluffybear

    fluffybear Hall Of Fame DBSTalk Club

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    A 5 to 7 year old would probably disagree.

    You are assuming the play was held within the sanctuary. You might find this hard to believe but many churches have community center buildings where public events are held and a lot of times it's hard to tell the difference between them and the conference room at the Doubletree..
     
  3. SayWhat?

    SayWhat? Know Nothing

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    No, not really. This isn't really about live performances as much as it is about kids being taken to a church during a school day.

    I tend to agree with the protests.
     
  4. Hoosier205

    Hoosier205 Active Member

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    It does not matter. It is a performance with religious content in a religious venue. Should be a simple lawsuit. It's unfortunate that the school will now waste more money defending itself for such a stupid decision.
     
  5. SayWhat?

    SayWhat? Know Nothing

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    But there are other factors too. Is a performance of the play "Jesus Christ; Superstar" any different at a Community Theater than in a gym or activities center on the property of a church?
     
  6. fluffybear

    fluffybear Hall Of Fame DBSTalk Club

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    What lawsuit?? Since attendance was not mandatory and required a parents permission in order to attend there is no lawsuit of any kind.
     
  7. Hoosier205

    Hoosier205 Active Member

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    There should be if the school doesn't wise up and play by the rules.
     
  8. Stewart Vernon

    Stewart Vernon Roving Reporter Staff Member Super Moderator DBSTalk Club

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    I notice nobody answered the very good earlier question...

    What if the performance was at a Mosque?


    Personally... as an atheist... I have no issue with an optional field trip like this no matter where it is. I even quite like to watch the Ten Commandments on TV... but I also wouldn't care if the kids went on a field trip to a mosque either.

    But I suspect many of the christians who are saying "what's the big deal" would go nuts if the same play was performed in a mosque and their kids were invited to that.

    As for personal experience... in school I was mostly picked on for other things than religion... but as an adult, I have had my fair share of being pestered (I won't say persecuted) by people who thought something was wrong with me for not sharing their religious beliefs.

    I've also had quite good conversations with religious people who just wanted to have intelligent conversation and share beliefs and moral discussions and were perfectly fine with my being atheist as I was quite fine with them being Christian.

    On a non-religious note, though...

    When I was in 5th grade... my class was going to go on a field trip to Old Salem... I didn't get along with the kids in my class AND had already been to Old Salem several times... so opted to stay home from school that day. I was picked on by other kids for choosing not to go. It was silly, and it didn't scar me for life, but it did happen... so I can only imagine if a kid chose not to go see a Peanuts performance what kids might pester them about until the religious aspect came to the forefront.

    I remember being pestered in 2nd grade about Christmas... and I remember the teacher being mad at me for "ruining" the holiday by telling the kid who was bothering me that there was no Santa Claus. It's not like I started the argument... but I wasn't going to be bullied into something I knew wasn't true... and then I was called out for being honest.

    I'm meandering here... but schools really ought to be about education and not get into these sort of problem areas.
     
  9. SayWhat?

    SayWhat? Know Nothing

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    Which is exactly why kids from a public school should not be taken to any secular facility during the school day on a school sponsored field trip. The whole point is that a school can't pick and choose which one is OK and which one isn't.
     
  10. spartanstew

    spartanstew Dry as a bone

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    As an atheist, I would have no problem with my kids attending this function, and would probably encourage it.
     
  11. fluffybear

    fluffybear Hall Of Fame DBSTalk Club

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    They informed the parents of the field trip, They informed them of where they were going and what was happening, They asked for permission and informed parents that attendance is not mandatory. Children who returned the signed slips stating it was OK to go, will and those who do not and return a "NO" will not..

    Sounds like they played by the rules to me.

    "God bless the man who invented permission slips"
    - Principal Seymour J. Skinner
     
  12. fluffybear

    fluffybear Hall Of Fame DBSTalk Club

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    I see no issue with it.
     
  13. Hoosier205

    Hoosier205 Active Member

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    Not when you have a public school using school time and property to take part in an event in a religious venue with religious content.
     
  14. James Long

    James Long Ready for Uplink! Staff Member Super Moderator DBSTalk Club

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    Oh horror! If only everyone who had uttered a bible verse as part of a public event would be banished!

    We would have to banish presidents of both parties along with many senators and congressmen. And what should we do with these people who open every session of government with prayer? Oh horror!

    Or perhaps we could learn a little tolerance ... let parents decide (as they did) to allow (or not) their children to attend the play. And even if they disagree with Linus' story be able to discuss it rationally within their families.
     
  15. James Long

    James Long Ready for Uplink! Staff Member Super Moderator DBSTalk Club

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    Then the parents would have had the same right to decide if their child attended as they had with the trip in question.

    The parents made a choice. Perhaps some "politically correct" person would attack a parent for not allowing their child to go to a mosque. But it was the parent's choice.

    Sue the parents for letting their children take the school trip. :)
     
  16. Hoosier205

    Hoosier205 Active Member

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    Not within the public, tax payer funded, school system. This isn't just some public event being attended by families. It's a public school sponsored trip. I'm sure you would be just fine if the school also scheduled a field trip to the truly asinine creationism museum as well.
     
  17. James Long

    James Long Ready for Uplink! Staff Member Super Moderator DBSTalk Club

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    Unfortunately there were too many brats on our school trip to see Shakespeare (I lived in Michigan at the time and we went to a theater in Canada ... a long bus ride away). The audience was all students from schools across Ontario as well as Michigan. The brats made paper airplanes out of the programs and managed to get many of them onto the stage. It was a disaster. Fortunately it didn't spoil theater for me ... although I prefer Gilbert and Sullivan to Shakespeare.
     
  18. cj9788

    cj9788 Hall Of Fame

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    I would be very upset if it was something that was mandatory. the fact that no one is being forced to go makes me think this is a non-issue.
     
  19. dpeters11

    dpeters11 Hall Of Fame

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    So much literature is influenced by religion, it's hard not to deal with it in some way if you're going to do a critical analysis of the work. Chronicles of Narnia can be read simply as a fantasy story, Aslan is just a lion that talks, but it goes much deeper than that of course.
     
  20. Hoosier205

    Hoosier205 Active Member

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    Field trips usually are not mandatory. This is no ordinary field trip however. Once again...it's public school children being taken by public school staff on public school buses during public school hours to a function in a religious venue that uses bible verse as part of its dialog. Christians are free to spread their mythology, but not on the tax payer's dime.
     
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