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Closing a bank account could cost $55

Discussion in 'The OT' started by phrelin, May 31, 2012.

  1. kevinturcotte

    kevinturcotte Active Member

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    You MAY be lucky at the moment. My Uncle and his Wife refinanced, and got a fixed rate. Then another bank bought that one one, and just gave them an ARM, and they're monthly mortgage jumped 200%! I don't think it's right, since they signed for the fixed rate, but they lost the house over it.
     
  2. James Long

    James Long Ready for Uplink! Staff Member Super Moderator DBSTalk Club

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    Don't pay it back ever? Perhaps the namecalling would apply. But a missed or late payment because of an unpredicted emergency? That is the first sign of trouble but it is hard to have a huge emergency fund in the bank and not use it for important things like the downpayment for the house or a pay cash car.

    My wife and I had a $6k emergency a few years ago and were fortunate enough to get a signature loan to cover the emergency. Not everybody has that and not everybody can stick $10k in a bank account and not touch it unless it is a major emergency.

    People who have an occasional money emergency are human. If it becomes a series of emergencies and other bad habits are seen perhaps one could call names. But often the difference between a deadbeat and a respectable person is one emergency.
     
  3. dennisj00

    dennisj00 Hall Of Fame

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    Somebody didn't read the original documents. There's no way the terms were changed in the sale of the loan unless it was specified in the original documents.
     
  4. phrelin

    phrelin Hall Of Fame DBSTalk Club

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    Northern...
    Yeah. Nobody ever thought this kind of thing could happen - letting deadbeats off like this....:sure:

    Going back to ancient Greece, there was an institution called "debt bondage".

    Debtors unable to repay their creditors would surrender their land to them, then becoming serfs who cultivated what used to be their own land and gave one sixth of produce to their creditors. Should the debt exceed the perceived value of debtor's total assets, then the debtor and his family would become the creditor's slaves as well. The same would result if a man defaulted on a debt whose collateral was the debtor's personal freedom.

    A set of laws instituted by the Athenian lawmaker Solon (c. 638 BC–558 BC) established debt relief to rectify the widespread serfdom and slavery that had run rampant in Athens by the 6th century BC.

    It seems capitalism running amok regularly resulted in recessions and depressions which were discovered to be outside the control of individuals.

    The Roman's had a similar practice outlawed in 326 BC.

    Human experience, of course, never enters into the viewpoint of the self-righteous.

    So by the Middle Ages in Europe, debtors (both men and women) were locked up in debtors prisons with some debt prisoners were released to become serfs or indentured servants until they paid off their debt in labor.

    Charles Dickens' father was sent to one of these prisons, hence they appear Dickens's novels. The Debtors' Act of 1869 mostly abolished the practice of imprisonment for debt.

    By 1833 the United States abolished federal imprisonment for unpaid debts, and most states outlawed the practice around the same time. We already had begun experimenting with bankruptcy laws, starting in 1800.

    And so here we are 27 centuries after the ancient Greeks discovered that capitalism has a flaw - economic cycles.

    The method we have chosen to help ordinary people deal with that flaw is bankruptcy.

    But that doesn't prevent responsible folks from becoming resentful over "irresponsible" people gaining relief from debt.

    We also demand justice for these "irresponsible" people who got caught up in a "bubble", by prosecuting someone else who made large profits from the ignorance of others.

    All because of a flaw in capitalism, the "recession" or "depression", that we've known about for 27 centuries.
     
  5. TXD16

    TXD16 Icon

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    That's ridiculous. To refer to a downward turn in an economic cycle as a "flaw" in capitalism is like referring to a hurricane as a "flaw" in the weather.

    Neither is a "flaw," but, rather, each is an integral, known, anticipated, and nearly always forecast normal part of their respective entities.

    Responsible individuals make proper and prudent preparations for both well in advance of the arrival of either.
     
  6. phrelin

    phrelin Hall Of Fame DBSTalk Club

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    Well, I don't really quite see economic systems as comparable to natural systems.

    I'm not willing to compare some humans as acceptable natural predators and others as natural prey in a system artificially sustained by (a) money, a commodity created by government, or (b) property ownership, protected by government even back in the time of Solon.

    Rather, I see social systems including economic systems as man-made and like all such human creations subject to flaws. From my point of view, like machines we've engineered we determine what risks are acceptable and set design tolerances accordingly. And when a plane goes down, we lose a few but generally have insurance for that.

    The insurance in this case is bankruptcy IMHO.
     
  7. Rich

    Rich DBSTalk Club DBSTalk Club

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    The value of our house has always been way above the assessed value of our home. I think everyone in our town would move out if they assessed our homes according to what we can sell them for. We're being forced to undergo a reevaluation this year and the results of that might finally force us to move to PA.

    So, you can't really trust what an appraiser tells you. All they do is compare similar home sales in your area. Real estate agents are even worse, all they want to do is sell your home as quickly as possible. I've set the selling price on every house I've sold and always got it in spite of what agents and appraisers have advised. But, I've never been in a rush to sell, that's when you have a hard time getting your price. I've waited as long as a year to sell a house just to get the price I wanted.

    In other words, if you want to sell a house, set the price and stand firm, somebody will come along and buy it eventually.

    Rich
     
  8. Rich

    Rich DBSTalk Club DBSTalk Club

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    There are a lot of deadbeats out there. With the economy the way it is, I can understand folks robbing Peter to pay Paul, but if the economy were to go way up and unemployment were to go down to next to nothing, those deadbeats would still exist. Family members and friends are the worst. It's almost as if there's a disconnect in their minds that allows them to "borrow" and never pay back the loan.

    The concept of a "cushion" also eludes most people. It took me years to convince my wife that the cushion was worthwhile and really a necessity.

    Rich
     
  9. Stewart Vernon

    Stewart Vernon Roving Reporter Staff Member Super Moderator DBSTalk Club

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    The "illegal" foreclosures were not the ones on people who actually owed money.. but rather the cases of banks foreclosing on homes they didn't actually have in mortgage situations OR homes that weren't behind on their payments.

    So many foreclosures were going through the courts so fast, that some judges were rubber-stamping everything under the assumption that it was in order... until people who owned their homes outright OR owed to a completely different bank had their homes essentially stolen from them by court order and had to fight it.

    One family fought it by not only suing the bank and getting their house back.. but having their lawyer foreclose on a local branch bank when the bank was refusing to pay the verdict fee :)
     
  10. James Long

    James Long Ready for Uplink! Staff Member Super Moderator DBSTalk Club

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    Eventually could be a few years - if you're willing to stick around or can support two houses you might be able to hold out for the right buyer. But eventually the cost of maintaining the second house will catch up and there will be a break even point where selling the house for less than you thought it was worth may be the better option.

    There are emotions involved ... no one wants to be told that something they own is worth less than they believe it is worth. But appraisers and market conditions do come into play. An appraiser will say what a property is worth based on the sale of similar properties in the area. The last appraisal I had listed the comparative properties, their sales prices and how they compared to my property. In a market without a lot of sales the appraisals can be off - not a lot to compare to. In a market where a lot of people are cutting their losses and leaving the appraisals drop in value. And they should. Why should someone may you full price of what you think your house is worth if they can get a similar house for much less?

    At the end of the day your property is worth what you can sell it for. If you cannot sell it for the full asking price it isn't worth the full asking price.

    (I got the pleasure of trading in a used car this week. The dealer offered $500 in trade ... I said no. Then they offered $700 ... I said no. Then they offered $800 ... I said no and told them I was leaving. Then the manager came in and offered me $1200 for the same vehicle I was originally offered $500 for. He looked it up on KBB and NADA and knew what I knew ... with that mileage even in fair condition the car was worth $1200. I got what the car was worth ... based on an appraisal from two trusted sources I knew what to ask for. And I sold a used car to a used car salesman.)

    I NEVER loan money to family ... I have in the distant past both borrowed and loaned money and decided that it was not worth the hassle. When there is a valid need and I can help I GIVE money. And if they choose to give it back later that is fine ... if not, it was a GIFT not a LOAN.

    Such a policy has worked out well. I don't care how many dollars ahead or behind I am because I'm not running a balance sheet. And my past gifts have led to gifts when I needed a little help. None that needed repaid.
     
  11. Rich

    Rich DBSTalk Club DBSTalk Club

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    I've had the good fortune to have plenty of time to sell my houses. As I said in my post, if you can't wait for some reason, you're just not gonna get the price you think it's worth. Maybe.

    I rarely trade in cars, but when I do, I make sure I know the value of it and take documentation with me. And I don't budge. Don't like car salesmen, even tho I do have a couple of friends who are car salesman. Never bought a car from them. I never buy anything from someone I consider a close friend. Learned that lesson a long time ago.

    I've given money to people in my family and made it clear it was a gift. I've let them live with me in hard times for nothing. Fed them too.

    Which brings me back to this: Why would anyone loan money to someone in dire straits? Doesn't stop the banks. My sister-in-law has a McMansion in Maryland that has a mortgage and second loan on it and both combined are far in excess of what they could get for the house if they sold it in a "golden market". But the banks keep refinancing their loans. Thieves in three piece suits.

    Rich
     
  12. James Long

    James Long Ready for Uplink! Staff Member Super Moderator DBSTalk Club

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    As long as they can make money with an acceptable amount of risk the banks will keep making the loans.

    In debt forever favors the bank ... they want the interest. And with banks selling off risky loans and government safety nets the risk is lowered to acceptable.
     
  13. phrelin

    phrelin Hall Of Fame DBSTalk Club

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    When I said this...
    ...I forgot to mention a system where the government also encourages predatory lending practices by government guaranteed financial institutions, encouraging lending of the government commodity - money - so that everyone could be invested in the concept of government guaranteed property rights through the American Dream of home ownership.

    Except when the economy crashes, as it always does, the government guaranteed nothing for the debtor while it bailed out the financial institutions, as it always does.

    I've never understood why people come down so hard on the foolish that bought homes beyond their means in this period of "ownership society" promotion. As noted in Wikipedia:
     
  14. TBoneit

    TBoneit Hall Of Fame

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    I remember reading about that they got the Sheriff to go along with them on to do the foreclosure on that branch. Having the Sheriff there to seize the property seemed to get the banks attention. That worked much better than just calling and having the lawyer write letters.
     

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