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Condominium Problem - need advice

Discussion in 'General Satellite Discussion' started by mikemyers, Dec 19, 2012.

  1. trh

    trh This Space for Sale

    5,801
    302
    Nov 2, 2007
    NE FL
    Same link.

    (I added the bolding).

    I haven't read anything in the OTARD about 'grandfathering'. For clarification you certainly can file a petition with the FCC. But I personally wouldn't drill any holes until after it was resolved.
     
  2. SayWhat?

    SayWhat? Know Nothing

    6,262
    133
    Jun 6, 2009
    You're getting WAAAAAYYYYY ahead of yourself. You say you aren't even there yet. Wait until you are. Look things over. Get with the local techs and the building management. They may have already worked this kind of thing out with other tenants in the mean time.
     
  3. mikemyers

    mikemyers Legend

    234
    1
    May 19, 2010

    Good advice - in that case, I will have it temporarily clamped to the balcony railing, "just in case". Here's the letter from the FCC:


    =========================================

    You are receiving this email in response to your inquiry to the FCC.

    Mike,
    Thank you for contacting the FCC with this important matter. I hope you find this information useful.


    1. How do I file a petition for declaratory ruling and where?
    There is no special form for a petition. You may simply describe the facts, including the specific restriction(s) that you wish to challenge. If possible, include contact information such as telephone numbers for all parties involved, if available, and attach a copy of the restriction(s) and any relevant correspondence. If this is not possible, be sure to include the exact language of the restriction in question with the petition. Parties may petition the Commission for a declaratory ruling under Section 1.2 of the Commission's rules, 47 C.F.R. 1.2, or a court of competent jurisdiction, to determine whether a particular restriction is permissible or prohibited under this rule.

    If someone wishes to file either a Petition for Declaratory Ruling or a Petition for Waiver pursuant to the Commission's Over-the-Air Reception Devices Rule (47 CFR 1.4000), they must file an original and two copies of the Petition at the following address:

    Office of the Secretary
    Federal Communications Commission
    445 12th Street, S.W.
    Washington, D.C. 20554
    Attn: Media Bureau


    2. What are the requirements for filing a petition for a waiver or declaratory ruling?
    Petitions for declaratory rulings and waivers must be served on all interested parties. If you are a viewer, you must serve a copy of the Petition on the entity seeking to enforce the restriction (i.e., the local government, community association or landlord). If you are a local government, community association or landlord, you must serve a copy of the Petition on the residents in the community who currently have or wish to install antennas that will be affected by the restriction your Petition seeks to maintain.

    If a local government seeks a declaratory ruling or a waiver from the Commission, the local government must take steps to afford reasonable constructive notice to residents in its jurisdiction (e.g., by placing a notice in a local newspaper of general circulation)

    If a viewer files a petition or lawsuit challenging a local government's ordinance, an association's restriction, or a landlord's lease, the viewer must serve the local government, association or landlord, as appropriate.


    3. What are my rights until a decision is made on the declaratory ruling regarding a currently installed dish?
    A restriction cannot be enforced while the petition is pending. Unless the restriction being challenged or for which a waiver is sought is necessary for reasons of safety or historic preservation.
    There is no specified time frame for a decision on a petition for a declaratory ruling.

    4. Who enforces a declaratory ruling?
    If the Commission determines that the restriction is valid, you will have a minimum of 21 days to comply with this ruling. If you remove your antenna during this period, in most cases you cannot be fined. However, this 21-day grace period does not apply if the FCC rule does not apply to your installation (for example, if the antenna is installed on a condominium general common element or hanging outside beyond an apartment balcony. If the FCC rule does not apply at all in your case, the 21-day grace period does not apply.

    5. What is the process for an OTARD dispute after the consumer sends a petition to the FCC for a ruling?
    Once the Petition for a Declaratory Ruling is received at the FCC it is forwarded to the Media Bureau where it is entered onto a tracking chart. Then the petition is reviewed and the Petitioner is contacted. The HOA/landlord will also be contacted by the FCC.
    After, reviewed a preliminary determination is made whether or not the OTARD Rule applies to the situation. At that time a rejection or acceptance letter will be sent. This can then lead to an informal negotiation, a formal PN and/or and FCC Order. This complete process can take 1 to 2 years to complete.
     
  4. trh

    trh This Space for Sale

    5,801
    302
    Nov 2, 2007
    NE FL
    The OTARD link you provided has all this (and a little bit more).

    The one thing I think your association is doing 'wrong' is mandating a specific mount. There are several types of non-pen mounts (like the one kenglish linked to) that work fine without doing any damage to the deck/building.

    Good luck.
     
  5. mikemyers

    mikemyers Legend

    234
    1
    May 19, 2010

    Having seen the damage that the previous hurricanes caused in Miami, and having lived through them with the building shaking, and seeing the concrete wall surrounding the swimming pool having a whole section blown over, "worked fine" is not really applicable
    to my situation, unless I was physically there to remove the dish for every potential storm.... and even if I was there, I would then lose access to the TV news that I have always had on during the storm so I'd know what was going on. Much of the time I'm away, traveling, with no way to do anything about the dish. .....and three feet away from where the dish will be, is my new hurricane glass balcony door and window, which would likely be damaged (if not destroyed) were the dish to move around.

    Maybe I should post the photos here of the damage done by the last major storm that hit just south of Miami - much of the entire house was blown away. I saw which buildings survived, and which did not. My condo "should" survive something like this, and based on what I know about engineering and the forces involved, a temporary mount in this application is an invitation to disaster.


    This photo is similar to the photos I took 20 minutes away from my condo:
    http://www.tampabay.com/multimedia/archive/00058/per_andrew030109_58055c.jpg

    My apartment survived all these storms with no problems.
    My DTV dish survived all these storms with no problem.
    The trees near my building were blown over.
    The concrete block wall surrounding the building was blown away.

    When DTV installs a dish properly, unless the structure itself fails, the dish remains in place.
    To me, there is no substitute for having the dish firmly bolted in place.

    (....and since the board hasn't said anything about the other fixtures bolted to the concrete, shutters, doors, outside lighting fixtures, cover plates for when/if the lighting fixtures are removed, I don't see why they should single out only a DTV dish..... Will post here in 6 weeks or so how it all works out.)
     
  6. trh

    trh This Space for Sale

    5,801
    302
    Nov 2, 2007
    NE FL
    Nothing in the OTARD grants you the right to install a hurricane proof dish. You want to drill holes into a building, then you need to get out of a condo and buy a house. Or get a change to OTARD. But until then, your association has every legal right to prevent you from drilling holes in their building.

    As for access to local news, I recommend an OTA antenna. With most severe weather and a dish, you're going to lose reception so get an antenna to receive your local channels.
     
  7. SayWhat?

    SayWhat? Know Nothing

    6,262
    133
    Jun 6, 2009
    Yup. With the heavy cloud deck and rain, you'll lose signal long before the main brunt of the storm arrives and it will stay out until long after the storm passes regardless of the dish moving or not.
     
  8. AntAltMike

    AntAltMike Hall Of Fame

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    College...
    In light of the fact that hundreds of thousands of DBS satellite subscribers use non-penetrating mounts, the FCC will not consider requiring the use of one to aviod damaging an exterior surface that the HOA may be responsible for maintaining does not constitute an unreasonable expense.

    I know steel prices have gone up since I used to buy these a decade ago, but I used to get commercial grade, non-pen mounts with square bases with trays that held 8 cinder blocks for $50 each. I know they cost more than that now.

    Last I knew, the major manufacturers of those mounts, Baird and Rohn, would tell you for free how much ballast you would have to load onto their appropriate sized mount to withstand a 125 MPH wind in your situation. For the SWM dish, I'd guess six blocks is enough, eight tops. I think you can buy a suitable mount and blocks for under $100. I don't see why anyone would fight over that amount.
     
  9. harsh

    harsh Beware the Attack Basset

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    Jun 14, 2003
    Salem, OR
    They have all the rights that you gave them when you entered into a contract with them. These rights can absolutely supersede those rights otherwise guaranteed by law.
     
  10. AntAltMike

    AntAltMike Hall Of Fame

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    The FCC regulations regarding the placement of DBS satellite dishes explicitly supercede all laws, regulations and restrictive covenants.
     
  11. harsh

    harsh Beware the Attack Basset

    21,192
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    Jun 14, 2003
    Salem, OR
    Even if you specifically waived those rights as part of a contract?

    I'm dubious.
     
  12. P Smith

    P Smith Mr. FixAnything

    22,448
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    Jul 25, 2002
    W.Mdtrn Sea
    Not in California at least.
     
  13. trh

    trh This Space for Sale

    5,801
    302
    Nov 2, 2007
    NE FL
    Same here in FL.
     
  14. AntAltMike

    AntAltMike Hall Of Fame

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    There would be no point in writing into the law that the rights supercede any written into a contract if a party could pressure someone into foregoing those rights in a contract. I doubt that a contract that says my landlord doesn't have to meet residential occupancy standards for cleanliness or minimum winter temperature is enforceable either.
     
  15. Herdfan

    Herdfan Well-Known Member

    6,506
    99
    Mar 18, 2006
    Teays...
    The issue then is that the provision is invalid because it conflicts with the law. Just like an employee can't waive his rights to overtime pay.
     

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