1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.

D* already at 5 channels per transponder on 2 transponders of 103b!!!

Discussion in 'DIRECTV Programming' started by vurbano, Oct 18, 2007.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. Tom Robertson

    Tom Robertson Lifetime Achiever DBSTalk Club

    Nov 15, 2005
    As has been stated, D10 is licensed for 14 national transponders, appears to be using 16 right now, perhaps until D11 goes up.

    The 500MHz bandwidth for Ka-lo served by D10 has been allocated into 24 transponder frequencies, not the traditional 32 of Ku. That cuts down on the amount of wasted space between transponders. And also means more channels per wider transponder.

    HBO is rumored to have required all their HD channels to be run at 8Mbs MPEG4.

    Thanks Chris for calling FUD.

  2. ItaliaVP

    ItaliaVP AllStar

    Jul 10, 2007
    Slight OT: I have two 720p/1080i TVs, should I set max resolution to 1080i or 720p...or should I select both?
  3. Stuart Sweet

    Stuart Sweet The Shadow Knows!

    Jun 18, 2006
    Let's also not forget that two more satellites are on their way up, so I don't expect a need to bitstarve the current channels.
  4. Tom Robertson

    Tom Robertson Lifetime Achiever DBSTalk Club

    Nov 15, 2005
    I personally use Native off and set resolution to the native resolution of my TV, 1080i.

    With Navtive on, I would allow all resolutions the TV allowed (or at least looked good.) :)

  5. Michael D'Angelo

    Michael D'Angelo Lifetime Achiever

    Oct 20, 2006
    It is really up to you and what looks the best to you.

    I use native on with all resolutions selected.
  6. Tom Robertson

    Tom Robertson Lifetime Achiever DBSTalk Club

    Nov 15, 2005
    While there are two more satellites approved by the FCC (D11 and D13) and three in the works that "could" be launched (D11, D12, D13), only D11 will bring more national bandwidth. D13 is a replacement satellite. D12 hasn't been filed for launch yet.

    Your point is still right on. D11 will add lots of capacity, no one will be starved anytime soon. Heck, the the content providers first have to figure out how to launch that many channels!

  7. uncrules

    uncrules Godfather

    Dec 20, 2005
    As I already said on AVSForum when vurbano posted the same thing over there.

    According to the poster of this information all transponders already have 5 channels of audio and video already on them.

    Everybody should read the whole discussion because it seems like that this isn't the end of the world.


    It seems to me from this discussion that along as D* doesn't go to 6 channels per transponder like E*, the PQ shouldn't really change from what we see today, which IMO, looks really great.
  8. man_rob

    man_rob Hall Of Fame

    Feb 21, 2007
  9. hasan

    hasan Well-Known Member

    Sep 22, 2006
    Ogden, IA
    Me too! I eagerly await MPEG-4 HD Locals (promised 4th quarter 2006 and yet to appear), to see just how they compare to OTA-HD. As you know, I'm a big OTA fan, but I would love to "not be able to tell the difference" between OTA and MPEG-4 locals. Unfortunately, we are still waiting in the Des Moines, IA DMA and have heard not a peep from D* or anyone else as to when they will show up.

    Not only is the PQ excellent on the new HD channels, the dramatic reduction in recording space is likely to keep me from having to add an eSATA drive for some time to come. Way to go D*!
  10. Tom Robertson

    Tom Robertson Lifetime Achiever DBSTalk Club

    Nov 15, 2005
    Remember, Echostar is using smaller transponders in the Ku band than DIRECTV is using in the Ka band.

  11. flipptyfloppity

    flipptyfloppity New Member

    Aug 20, 2007
    How is it worse? Because 1080i has 6.75x as many pixels as 480i. 6.75x the pixels in 2x the space means it is much more compressed.

    (Note that H.264 is the form of MPEG4 DTV is using on the new HD channels. VC-1 is another name for WMV9, MS' encoding that is similar to H.264)
    Let's compare:
    DVD (480i) has a bitrate of about 6mbit/sec (and is MPEG2).
    OTA HDTV (1080i) has a bitrate of up to 19mbit (if they don't use subchannels, and it is MPEG2).
    iTunes TV shows (480p) have a bitrate of 2mbit/sec (and are H.264).
    Xbox media store shows (720p) have a bitrate of 6.8mbit/sec (and are VC-1).
    HD disc (Blu-Ray or HD-DVD) (1080i) have an average bitrate of about 25 mbit/sec (and are MPEG2, VC-1 or H.264).

    So as you can see, 7.2mbit/sec is not a lot for HDTV content. I sure hope these 5 channels are showing 24p (movie) content instead of 60i (video) content, cause they're pretty overloaded already.

    It also just shows how the HD discs will currently still hold an enormous advantage in picture quality, because they're the bandwidth kings.

    Subjectively, I am quite happy with the picture quality on the Starz networks. The rest seem average to me. It's too bad none of them are full 1920x1080, but then again, DTV pulled these shenanigans on SD too, didn't they?
  12. carl6

    carl6 Moderator Staff Member DBSTalk Club

    Nov 15, 2005
    Seattle, WA
    Why are there people out there who, if someone walked up and handed them a million dollars they would complain because it wasn't two million?

    I think DirecTV is doing an absolutely outstanding job of providing all the new HD, and I am very satisfied with what I'm getting. I'll keep my million and say THANK YOU.

  13. Coffey77

    Coffey77 Cutting Edge: ECHELON '07

    Nov 12, 2006
    You're absolutely right as I was mixing up SD MPEG2 and thinking of HD at the time. Sorry for the confusion and thanks for the clarification. Don't forget, MPEG4 supposedly runs the same as MPEG2 HD @ around 2/3's the output... Right?
  14. Ken S

    Ken S RIP

    Feb 12, 2007
    Perhaps they don't consider the service they're paying for a "gift" from DirecTV?
  15. seagod

    seagod AllStar

    May 23, 2007
    As far as I am concerned, the PW that D* presents is just fine. DiscoverHD, SmithsonianHD, UnivaralHD, Sports in HD, HDNet all look great. I really do not care what the bit rate is as long as the image is good. The only problem I see is the HD channels that stretch 4:3 content to distort the image but the picture quality is comparable to the SD version except the edges or the whole picture is fat.

    I second that D* is providing good quality images in the bitrate arena but am concerned about the stretching but D* might not have much if anything to do about that as it most likely is from the content provider's side.

    By the way, I would 99% of the time expect an SD DVD to be better than broadcast SD of that movie as well as an HD/Blue-ray DVD would be better than a broadcast HD movie of the same as both can handle much higher bitrates and are probably (hopefully) more optimized.
  16. wilbur_the_goose

    wilbur_the_goose Hall Of Fame

    Aug 16, 2006
    seagod - to me, D*'s HD is on a par with my HD-DVD player. I was amazed.
  17. SParker

    SParker Active Member

    Apr 27, 2002
    I can't wait until the 70's channels get moved to MPEG4!
  18. Ken_F

    Ken_F Godfather/Supporter DBSTalk Gold Club

    Jan 13, 2003

    Dish Network has 27MHz (24MHz usable) transponders using 8PSK modulation. DirecTV has 36MHz (30MHz usable) transponders, but they are using DVB-S2 with QPSK modulation at 2/3 FEC. That's why Dish Network actually gets more bandwidth from its transponders than DirecTV. Edit: should say DirecTV has 40MHz (36MHz usable).

    Some simple math:

    D10: 30.0Mbaud symbol rate * 2 (QPSK) * 2/3 (FEC) = 40 Mbps
    E10: 21.5Mbaud symbol rate * 3 (8PSK) * 2/3 (FEC) = 43 Mbps

    DirecTV has somewhat less overhead thanks to DVB-S2, but that gives you a rough idea.
  19. Tom Robertson

    Tom Robertson Lifetime Achiever DBSTalk Club

    Nov 15, 2005
    My turn to go ehh? :)

    On D10/D11 DIRECTV is using 40MHz spacing with 36MHz usable. I also understand that DIRECTV has setup 8PSK on the D10/D11, but I need to verify that.

    Lastly, I thought DIRECTV has reduced their FEC but that might be to the level you've indicated.

    What I need are good treatises on calculating real bitrates armed with bandwidth, modulation, and FEC information. I feel a hole in my knowledge. :)

  20. Ken_F

    Ken_F Godfather/Supporter DBSTalk Gold Club

    Jan 13, 2003
    Right, caught me before I fixed that.

    DirecTV is clearly using DVB-S2 with QPSK, however.
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.

Share This Page